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Dark GDK / DGDK Open Source Project

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Gibba gobba
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Posted: 15th Jan 2012 05:17
It all sounds great! Nice idea for a game. I'm really can't wait for it all to come together!

Hello one and all...
Clonkex
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Posted: 18th Jan 2012 05:06 Edited at: 18th Jan 2012 05:06
Wow, TechLord, you really know how to keep going on a project until it's finished! I'm amazed! I have that many unfinished projects in my DBPro folder....it's depressing...

I would like to apologise profusely because my attempt to help with the project came to nothing. I can't say that I will even have time to help any time in the foreseeable future, as we're moving (I think we've finally settled on moving to the area around Taree, Australia).

I will definitely help sometime in the un-foreseeable future

Keep up the incredible work!

Clonkex

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2012 20:30 Edited at: 22nd Jan 2012 20:40
@TechLord
I hope you don't mind, I made a video for my YouTube channel publicizing this project to get people interested in it.

EDIT: Here's the video if you want to check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdzn6N2GrY4

Hello one and all...
TechLord
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Posted: 26th Jan 2012 02:42 Edited at: 26th Jan 2012 02:48
Quote: "@TechLord
I hope you don't mind, I made a video for my YouTube channel publicizing this project to get people interested in it.

EDIT: Here's the video if you want to check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdzn6N2GrY4
"
Great Job Gibbagobba, I love it!! For more direct design & development details on the Super 3D Game Platform check out the documentation at http://s3gp.hpquest.com.

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 4th Feb 2012 20:09
I have to ask, with the character creation tools, are characters you make strictly human? Can you make like aliens, or cartoonish characters like Sonic or Mario?

Hello one and all...
TechLord
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Posted: 5th Feb 2012 03:42 Edited at: 12th Jan 2013 20:20
3d point in space
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Posted: 13th Feb 2012 19:59 Edited at: 13th Feb 2012 20:00
I been working alot with agk lately sorry tech lord, but you might think about integrating app development in the project, but I think that would be a lot of work. Last time I tried to help I got confused at what you where tring to do. I hate reading other peoples code and get fustrated fast if all they tell me to do is test it I might come back after creating a few more apps don't know yet though.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, and zipzapzoom apps.
Veterian for the military.
TechLord
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Posted: 15th Feb 2012 15:59
Quote: "I been working alot with agk lately sorry tech lord, but you might think about integrating app development in the project, but I think that would be a lot of work. Last time I tried to help I got confused at what you where tring to do. I hate reading other peoples code and get fustrated fast if all they tell me to do is test it I might come back after creating a few more apps don't know yet though."
No need to apologize. This project is complex and the goals are ambitious. I also can understand frustration with reading others code. I really like the multi-platform development concept behind AppGameKit, which is why I elected to migrate from DGDK Libs and build S3GP with cross-platform open-source libraries. I'm too busy to give AppGameKit a go, but, I would interested in the Apps have you created with AGK. Can you provide more info about them?

3d point in space
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Posted: 26th Feb 2012 23:38 Edited at: 26th Feb 2012 23:39
I currently making a engine that uses tiled. These are some of the things I want to do are.
My engine might also work with dark gdk. If I separate the xml part from the engine.

Some things that my engine will do from a tiled file.

look for layers then pass the data from tiled to a vector<int>.

A layer that defines the sprites and how they will be laid out.

A layer that defines the rotations of the sprites.

A layer that defines the player position.

A layer that defines the enemy position.

(optional)
a layer that defines what the player can see light a spot light.

use A path finding algorithm to find the path between monster and player.

this is an example of my program parceing a xml file from tiled. which looks like this. this function makes a parce from tiled.


xmlmapeng *parse=new xmlmapeng("map.tmx");

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, and zipzapzoom apps.
Veterian for the military.
Gibba gobba
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 05:43
I noticed that the program will contain a console emulator. Does that mean games can be made in format for certain systems? And if so, which ones?

Hello one and all...
TechLord
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 03:25
Quote: "I noticed that the program will contain a console emulator. Does that mean games can be made in format for certain systems? And if so, which ones?"
The console is a multi-purpose text-based command line interface (CLI) which can also serve other needs that require a simple text-based CLI. It can be used a `shell` to communicate to the engine directly or within the game as CLI. Text-based S3GP Applications can also be executed and displayed with this interface.

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 31st Mar 2012 02:03 Edited at: 9th Apr 2012 23:40
I'm wondering what your plan is on the more aesthetic components and tools. How would the cutscene, animation, sound, and music creators/editors work?

EDIT: I just asked TGC what they though about this, and they said that many projects like these constantly fail due to the creator moving on. I hope this won't ever be true.

Hello one and all...
Design Runner
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 04:56
Any updates techlord?

Vitamin
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Posted: 13th May 2012 07:01
Sorry everybody, but I can't allow this thread to stay on the 2nd page. It's too damn awesome.
TechLord
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Posted: 18th May 2012 06:55
Quote: "I'm wondering what your plan is on the more aesthetic components and tools. How would the cutscene, animation, sound, and music creators/editors work?"
Guys, I've been examining a variety of software products few the past couple of months. In Particularly, VFX/NLE Editing Systems. I had 0 knowledge about these types of software packages and had to go deep into the world of video editing to get an understanding of how I'm going to implement Multi-user Real-time Non-Linear Composting within S3GP. I'll keep you posted.

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 12th Jun 2012 01:25 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2012 21:45
Bumping for everyone's sake.

[EDIT So, anything new?

Hello one and all...
TechLord
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 04:16
Hello Everyone,

I've reached a point in the development S3GP where assistance in the software engineering and programming is required (if S3GP is to ever see the light of day). Thus, I'm considering kicking off a IndieGogo Campaign to solicit additional programming expertise from experienced Game Programmers. I'm opened to opinions (good and bad) on making this maneuver.

3d point in space
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 07:41 Edited at: 7th Jul 2012 07:10
Techlord if you are at a stand still maybe you can help with my editor. If not that is ok. Mainly your box 2d experience. Looks like Matty is not helping ether he has made a good engine dark dynamix way better then I could do. I don't know why you moved the project to ogre. One of the reasons a lot of people stopped helping was because you where biting to much. I think converting it to ogre lost alot of peoples interest in the forums. That is also why no one wants to help they don't want too learn ogre. You should of started with a simple 2d project game making program then add 3d to it latter, would have been a lot easier.

here is my program if you are interest
https://forumfiles.thegamecreators.com/download/2371197

Your not even responding to my coment. Maybe you need a smaller project of your own to build your confidence. I would suggest making a small game and see if anything you did helped you out with this project. Most professional developers wont help unless you pay them like 100000 a year. I think paying someone too help you might be your only option. Making game for me has helped a lot with understanding code better.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
Clonkex
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 10:10
@3d point in space:

I disagree. TechLord has a great deal of confidence (I mean, look how long he's been working) and I'm sure there's plenty of devs that would love to help WITHOUT being paid, and are going to be falling over themselves with the thought of getting money from it I believe an IndieGogo campaign is a brilliant idea

@TechLord:

Go for it! If you use Fixed Funding, you've got absolutely nothing to lose! In fact, you don't even if you use Flexible Funding

Clonkex

3d point in space
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Posted: 7th Jul 2012 14:47 Edited at: 7th Jul 2012 21:42
All I am saying clonex is that i have gotten much better at making my engine when I worked with program such as tiled. My tiled engine has taught me more about programming then I thought would be possible to program by my self.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
Gibba gobba
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 00:42
@TechLord

Awesome to see the project finally reach this point. I would totally go with the indie funding. It will most likely help it the long-run.

Hello one and all...
3d point in space
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 08:46 Edited at: 8th Jul 2012 09:14
Mat really needs to help you techlord I think he has the resources to help you the most. Maybe you can learn from him. You need to call him back to the project maybe put him in charge. Looks like he know direct x very well and using quite it effectively. I dread looking at direct x code it looks like horrible.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
Dar13
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Posted: 8th Jul 2012 14:39
Quote: "You need to call him back to the project maybe put him in charge."

I think TechLord would be loathe to put someone else in charge of *his* project. I know I would be, and anyways TechLord is using Ogre or Irrlicht as his rendering engine instead of straight DirectX.

3d point in space
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Posted: 9th Jul 2012 06:47 Edited at: 9th Jul 2012 07:13
Techlord and mat have a history on this project before tech took it to orge he lost mat when he did this and he was the only one that understood tech program. I tried working on it but I was still in the military at the time. So I could not help much. I remember back then tech didn't do much when mat was gone from the project. He was the reason that tech help got most of his work done on the project. I don't know if mat wants to come back he has his plate pretty full know.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
Matty H
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Posted: 9th Jul 2012 16:23
I think there may be some misunderstanding about my involvement in the project.

I did work on the physics which eventually became Fulcrum Physics which is still out there for anyone to use, although I would recommend the free version of Dark Dynamix, a vast improvement over Fulcrum

Other people did contribute too, but Techlord took on most of the tasks. Some of these tasks were huge and Techlord worked hard and made good progress. He also did an excellent job in coordinating the project and making information available to the contributors, this is very time consuming.

I stopped contributing before the decision to move to OGRE.

It was my feeling that the project was too ambitious for the amount of people/talent we had working on it. There was no flexibility to scale the project to reflect the amount of contributors at any given time.

My original thought was that we would take existing plug-ins/classes/code/shaders that people had posted on the forum over the years and combine them into a single API which knitted everything together and worked around any conflicts. I still think this would be a good idea, although I have not got the time/resources to do it

Wana7262
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 10:08
Download Link not working
TechLord
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 05:34
Sorry Wana7262 the zip file was removed as it just S3GP Application wasn't that impressive at the time.

I have to admit that S3GP has become over ambitious and also too ambiguous. My plan to create a Multi-user Game Application that had all the tools built-in to create unique content/logic/play without coding. What exactly is that? All I knew at that time, was I did not want to produce another open source FPS Engine. Perhaps, that would have been more focused, simpler to manage, but most of all, easier for others to visualize a end result.

I wanted to produce a state-of-the-art Game Creation System. A Application never-before-seen or produced within indie community. That is a tall order. My strategy to pull this off was to consolidate as much as possible where possible from lowest to the highest design process. That was much easier said than done. My lack of experience with C++ at the time only compounded the complexity. I simply bit off more than I could chew.

In retrospect, My greatest mistake for the project was moving the code completely away from DGDK. I believe that decision unmotivated the community. Whats the point of being a DGDK Open Source project, if it doesn't include DGDK? I was frustrated with workarounds, performance, and lack of features. We found ourselves modifying the back-end source of DGDK, creating a separate version DGDK. This wasn't a good path to take in my opinion.

As my skills in C++ improved, I found myself less reliant on DGDK's easy-use syntax and desired more low level control. Once I discovered that DGDK Wrapped up STL and other libraries, I realized that I could use the libraries directly.

After I moved away from DGDK, I found knee deep in the world of C++ programming and begin to learn programming patterns and much more. I'm a self-taught programmer, and all of this new discovery was really exciting for me. I was blinded with excitement.

From a code/library, I still believe there is an opportunity to make use of Matty's suggestion to create single API that knits everything together and works around any conflicts. I'm essentially doing that to integrate the various 3rd libraries into the S3GP Engine Framework.

I've had to step away from the project to realize how complicated things have become. Its apparent that I'm going to have to scale back some features or get more help. So my current plan is scaleback and get S3GP to the working state of FPS Creator.

Wana7262
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 07:07
can u reupload it?
3d point in space
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2012 18:00 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2012 19:07
you know techlord that this experience has indeed made you a pretty good programmer you just need to reduce what you have for right know simplify it so that you can manage it and make a single user world editor. I am currently making a editor for agk using dark gdk. My three-d editor needs a-lot of work. I see that you are pretty good with box2d, make an editor for that then add to it. People that are in agk would love this. If you think this is simple maybe so, but it would be very use-full, and it is really not that simple. It sounds like you are simplifying it down so that is a good sign.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
3d point in space
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2012 18:44 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2012 18:54
( opps double post how did that happen. Sorry about the double post I hate when this happens. I think it is the lag on the forums)

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
Gibba gobba
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2012 21:01
Bumping. I can't let this thread disappear.

Hello one and all...
TechLord
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Posted: 12th Sep 2012 11:47
Hi Everyone,

I've decided to scale back significantly and direct my focus on the development of what I believe to be three key systems: Networking, MeCHs, and DarkTokens. Here are my reasons for each.

Networking

I desire Multi-user support and Internet Access to Data Repositories out-of-box for any App developed w/ S3GP.

MeCHs

Modular Entity Construction can empower Game Producers to provide a greater amount of content with limited Media Assets. Reduce Loading Times and improve Run-time Performance.

Dark Tokens/TBEMS

Provide built-in Mechanisms for Game Producers to monetize their game content with ease, if so desired.

TechLord
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Posted: 12th Sep 2012 11:51
3d point in space

How far are you in the development of your AppGameKit Editor? And what are the motivations for developing a AppGameKit Editor?

MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Sep 2012 11:57
Where is this project at?

TechLord
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Posted: 14th Sep 2012 15:44 Edited at: 14th Sep 2012 15:51
Quote: "MrValentine: Where is this project at?"


Short Answer: Re-factoring. Rewriting the entire code base taking a Component-Object approach for Game Entity Systems to support a powerful modular design from the core, up.

Long Answer: Executed several software migrations. 1) VC++ 2008 to VC++ 2010, which introduced compilation problems for those who didn't upgrade to VC2010. 2) DarkNet to CURL, for improved HTTP,FTP and other Application Layer Protocol support. 3) Box2D to Bullet, for simultaneous 2D and 3D physics simulation.

Taking a Component-Object approach for Game Entity Systems required a massive amount of rewrite for existing Framework Libraries. In addition to the Component-Object Architectural Design implementation, I compounded my workload by using several design patterns such as Memento, Object Pool, Publish–subscribe, and many others within the Component-Object.

I also scrapped the old XML/LUA Markup and Scripting entirely in favor of a new one based on a Component-Object approach. I did agree with Matty on creating a API. However, instead of C++ API, I desired S3GP Users to have access to a easy-to-use Scripting API that mimics BASIC.

After all of these efforts, today you can execute the S3GE.exe App and watch Big Beautiful Green OGRE Head Mesh Rotate infinitely.

MrValentine
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Posted: 14th Sep 2012 20:45
cool, thanks for the speed brief

aside from this question:

Whats CURL?, I have heard of it before...

I do have other questions but will wait for another time

Olby
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Posted: 14th Sep 2012 21:33
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CURL


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
MrValentine
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Posted: 14th Sep 2012 21:44
Thanks a lot, I was worried that if i did search for the term curl, I would just end up with adverts of massages

I knew i read it somewhere before... somewhere here on the forum...

hmm, so it is better than DarkNet? or just easier to use? or just more functional?

TechLord
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Posted: 15th Sep 2012 08:59
I've been documenting ALL of my efforts on S3GP here. Check the Documents Section.

Quote: "hmm, so it is better than DarkNet? or just easier to use? or just more functional?"
DarkNet is Fast! However, I ran into a uncompromisable Bug using the Lib for HTTP Transfer. I elected to use HTTP in S3GP for communications with WWW Servers (Master Host, Repository Servers, and more) to S3GP Clients. This communication supports Media Download, Data Queries, and other tasks.



I selected CURL for its easy-to-use interface and extensive support for other Application Layer Protocols: DICT, FILE, FTP, FTPS, Gopher, HTTP, HTTPS, IMAP, IMAPS, LDAP, LDAPS, POP3, POP3S, RTMP, RTSP, SCP, SFTP, SMTP, SMTPS, Telnet,TFTP; and Security Support: SSL certificates.

For real-time interactive communications I elected to devise a homegrown solution that implements a Hybrid Input-Random, Position-Correction Transmission Strategy using a popular high performance lightweight open source UDP network library suitable for games.

3d point in space
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2012 21:35 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2012 21:42
i got pretty far techlord i think i am stuck on box 2d if i can get your help on that part maybe i can fix my engine. I know that you are very good at box 2d I been trying to find someone whom is good at setting it up. I can make a seperate box 2d program. If you look at the work in progress that is currently the engine. My program is pretty long though. The mfc is another hard part. I do use xml import and export in my current engine if you see how I load and save it is quite easy, but I am in graduate school maybe I can show you what I have done and you can see if that it would be a good starting point for a better engine. I really don't have motivations at this point the editor still needs box2d to be a good engine.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
Vitamin
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Posted: 1st Dec 2012 22:36
This project is looking amazing. Keep it up!
TechLord
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Posted: 26th Dec 2012 00:59 Edited at: 28th Dec 2012 22:24
Quote: "i got pretty far techlord i think i am stuck on box 2d if i can get your help on that part maybe i can fix my engine. I know that you are very good at box 2d I been trying to find someone whom is good at setting it up. I can make a seperate box 2d program. If you look at the work in progress that is currently the engine. My program is pretty long though. The mfc is another hard part. I do use xml import and export in my current engine if you see how I load and save it is quite easy, but I am in graduate school maybe I can show you what I have done and you can see if that it would be a good starting point for a better engine. I really don't have motivations at this point the editor still needs box2d to be a good engine.
"
I elected to migrate from Box2D to BulletPhysics because of its power, speed and seamless integration of 2D and 3D. Is your decision to use Box set in stone?

Matty H
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Posted: 1st Jan 2013 13:50
Good to hear from you TechLord.

I got my website up and running:
Elefant Games

Just a few tools I have developed for this community, it all started with this project and Fulcrum Physics which was completely re-written as Dark Dynamix.

Do you have a website or a blog so I can check out what you are up to from time to time?

TechLord
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 19:31
Hi Matty,

Good to see ya. I think your site is missing Hot Goblins.

Quote: "
Do you have a website or a blog so I can check out what you are up to from time to time?"

Yes I do. My Primary Webportal is HPQuest.com (had this for a few years.)

I've currently suspended efforts on S3GP to re-evaluate the direction I want to take the project. The current design goals to create the all-in-one no programming game creation platform are simply too overwhelming at this time.

So I've stepped away to review mature Game Development Environment/Engine like UDK. Some of my favorite games where developed with the UE3 so I feel it will be beneficial to work with it. In working with UDK, I'm discovering that I wasn't too far off with some of my implementation strategies for S3GP.

MrValentine
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 20:54
Quote: "I'm discovering that I wasn't too far off with some of my implementation strategies for S3GP."


In that case, finish it! You would end up having to pay UDK if you made a successful product...

Food for thought.

Matty H
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 22:52
Hot Goblins may be re-written soon for AppGameKit, it would suit the mobile market I think.

Thanks for the link, I remember FMV games, I think Philips had a console of some sort which I considered buying once

I too have recently been messing around with UDK, it's a great set of tools.

Quote: "In that case, finish it! You would end up having to pay UDK if you made a successful product.."


That certainly is one way to look at it, although the percentage you have to pay for using it is very reasonable. When considering how much work it takes out of creating your game, it's actually a massive bargain imo

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 12th Jan 2013 00:22
I do have to ask: At this time, is there any chance of seeing some sort of tech demo for the current progress of the S3GE?

Hello one and all...
TechLord
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Posted: 12th Jan 2013 05:56
Quote: "I do have to ask: At this time, is there any chance of seeing some sort of tech demo for the current progress of the S3GE?"
Here!

Quote: "In that case, finish it! You would end up having to pay UDK if you made a successful product..."
We need to finish it! This is supposed to be a community project. However, I've failed to lead, motivate, and maintain interest in this as a community project. I really need to find a way to get the project on track with the community and that is the most important aspect being re-evaluated.

There are many 3D Game Creation Tools out there that make creating games much easier. All one has to do is pick one and stick with it. Now the Commercial Dev's have entered the fray with Indie licensing (ie: UDK, CryTek, others). How can S3GP compete? What can it do different?

Is S3GP needed?

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 12th Jan 2013 10:03
I'd say that it's needed if it's motive is still to eliminate the difficulties of programming.

Hello one and all...
TechLord
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Location: TheGameDevStore.com
Posted: 12th Jan 2013 20:20 Edited at: 12th Jan 2013 20:21
Quote: " I'd say that it's needed if it's motive is still to eliminate the difficulties of programming."

Gibba Gobba, I truly appreciate you being a long time supporter and fan of the project. I don't want to let you down.

IMO, programming is not the most difficult aspect of game creation, as game mechanics and logic don't require modifcation once in place and can be used in many games. One just has to find a way to attach the Script to the entities in the gameworld and this can be accomplished via a GUI Driven system. This is strategy S3GP is taking.

The greatest challenge is creating unique Art assets that set one's apart from the others. A majority of us inspiring Game Creators are not 2D/3D Artist. It requires a decent amount of talent and massive amounts of patience. I have neither. Thus, I can blatantly see a need for real-time CAD in game creation and this is the area where S3GP can offer something not readily available.

I found new inspiration for the Modular Entity Construction System (MECS) concept in Spore Creator. The idea behind MECS is to provide Game Creators an easy way to craft any type of static/animated character, structure, vehicle, weapons for their games using snap-on parts and algorithms to blend/smooth 2D/3D seams if desired. It takes in considerations for mesh layers, animation layers, physics, particle emitters and audio emitters.

Perhaps this is the direction S3GP should go in. Simply narrow down the scope to provide a Creature Creator that create/exports MEC creations and a Engine Module that can load/save, assemble/disassemble, animate/render the creations in real-time. Although, I desire to add scalable massive multiplayer high level architecture, built-in Monetization systems, and GUI Driven Scripting (No Programming), maybe this is where the project should stop.

At this juncture, the project goals are simply to grand to achieve alone.

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