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3 Dimensional Chat / Advice needed on UV unwrapping

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Dream And Death
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 00:16
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Hey all - I think this is about my first ever post on the 3D boards. I'm trying to learn how to 3D model to create the assets for an Oriental flavoured RPG.

The first model (the castle base) came out reasonably well, but then again, it is very simple - a large tapered box essentially.

Bouyed by that success, I started work on the bridge that leads into the castle. I created it in 3DS Max 6 by using a load of simple shapes attached to several boxes to create one half of the bridge and then mirrored it.

Basically, it means the model has loads of hidden polygons. Now that I'm attempting to UV Unwrap it in 3DS Max, I'm tearing my hair out.

Should I be trying to eliminate all hidden polygons? Is there some way to get a 3D modelling program to do it for you? (Kinda surface map your finished mesh and create a new object just based on visible polygons) What about polygons that are half visible?

Basically, some advice would really be appreciated!

Thanks all!

"You get what everyone gets, you get a lifetime!" - Death, The Sandman Library

First you Dream, then you ... - Neil Gaiman, 2001
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Quik
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 00:36
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all hidden polys should always be deleted, they affect performence.. i belive anyway


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Dream And Death
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 00:56
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So is there any easy way to do this?

And what about polygons that are only half-hidden? (Due to using the Attach modifier, say)

"You get what everyone gets, you get a lifetime!" - Death, The Sandman Library

First you Dream, then you ... - Neil Gaiman, 2001
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Quik
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 01:45
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i dont use max so i dont know really, whaddaya mean with half hidden?


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Dream And Death
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 01:51
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The attached image should show what I mean.

The red is a selected poly, but it is half hidden behind another part of the model, which has been attached.

I'm getting the feeling that I shouldn't be attaching objects together.....

"You get what everyone gets, you get a lifetime!" - Death, The Sandman Library

First you Dream, then you ... - Neil Gaiman, 2001

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Quik
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 01:57
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aint that an N gon? if so, cut it so that its just quads, and i belive you would be fine i guess also, when creating a bridge, just start by a box, cylinder, sphere, whatever you feel confirmat... whatever its called in english, and extrude the edges/polygons until you got a nice bridge^^


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Asteric
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 02:03
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I am a max user and yes deleting polygons will improve performance, it will differenciate depending on how many faces are hidden. If the model is low poly enough you might just get away with leaving them in and playing it safe, of course this will make the uv map more complex. In my opinion, the best way to delete hidden faces is to do it manually, it gives best results.

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Dream And Death
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 02:08
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Nope, it ain't an N-gon, just a triangle that is half covered up.

Been looking through the 3DS Max tutorials and I get the feeling that I have been going wrong - it seems the best idea is to start with a simple box and extrude what I need. A shame, really, given what I have achieved.

A piccy of the full model (well, the stone base of the bridge, anyhow) is attached - would any of you give me some kind pointers?

Much appreciated!

"You get what everyone gets, you get a lifetime!" - Death, The Sandman Library

First you Dream, then you ... - Neil Gaiman, 2001

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Quik
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 03:10
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the model looks great^^ and yes as you said, the best way is, as I said, to start with a box, extrude what you need =P


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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 05:12
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Ugh, start over. It looks nice, but as you say, it's a mess to work with.

Would you mind uploading an .obj version of the model? I'll make a you a tutorial on how it would easiest to do + an unwrap lesson.

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rolfy
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 05:43
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You dont need to build such an object using extrusion, use boolean functions to unite all your pieces together, this will remove all hidden faces and make your model one object.
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 06:48
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That would be a really weird way to go about it, but it would work. Extrusion would be faster.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
Current Project: http://strewnfield.wordpress.com/ (Last updated 06/11/09)
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djmaster
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 12:17
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How about auto unwrap? Go to render-render to texture and at the bottom click unwrap only,then on the right side just click edit and render the uvmap.

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Dream And Death
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 12:25
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Sid - thank you muchly!

Never let it be said that the people on TGCs forum aren't some of the nicest on the web ^_^

Attached is an .obj version of the bridge base. I would really welcome such a tutorial. It will surely make my few days holiday from work far more productive!

Cheers all!


Btw, am I best seperating the bridge into base and decorative top? I assumed this would make things easier in the end. I'm also planning to use DarkPhysics in my game, so I thought to make the railings seperate and attach them. Then you can knock people through the railings ^_^

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rolfy
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 12:29 Edited at: 11th Aug 2009 12:31
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Quote: "That would be a really weird way to go about it"

Why? Nothing strange about using primitives, they've been used in modeling apps for a long time and I reckon it would be faster too, but then what do I know
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Dream And Death
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 12:33
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Sorry for the double post, but I didn't see djmaster's reply before I added my last post.

Attached is the result of Rendering to Texture!

Not particularly useful, but thanks for the suggestion!

"You get what everyone gets, you get a lifetime!" - Death, The Sandman Library

First you Dream, then you ... - Neil Gaiman, 2001

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 17:13
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Lmao. Auto unwrap is not a lazy man's way to unwrap nor does it fix not knowing how to unwrap your models.

You didn't attach the .obj...

I don't know what dark physics needs... but I don't think you would need to separate the railings.

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Current Project: http://strewnfield.wordpress.com/ (Last updated 06/11/09)
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Dream And Death
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 20:45
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Doh!

Here is the .obj

Thanks Sid

"You get what everyone gets, you get a lifetime!" - Death, The Sandman Library

First you Dream, then you ... - Neil Gaiman, 2001

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 12th Aug 2009 20:35
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Hey Dream, I got around to making that video for you today. I didn't have time to make a full step by step video, but I think you'll get the drift.

The final polycount is 952 on the model. Not bad for a bridge like that. I decided to make the frame separate for flexibilities sake. I didn't know if you wanted to mangle up the bridge later or add some crazy dark physics modifiers to it.

Here's a link to the video: http://screencast.com/t/wDMkbpyUEpu and I also attached the .obj.

I'll be making another video on how to unwrap this thing a little later. It should be really easy. Could you tell me what you have in mind for the texture? Is the frame going to be a solid color?

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
Current Project: http://strewnfield.wordpress.com/ (Last updated 06/11/09)

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Dream And Death
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Posted: 12th Aug 2009 21:14
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Sid

Awesome! Thank you so much for the time you have invested in this for me! What you have done is fantastic, thanks! It has also changed what I intend for the bridge. ^_^

This whole object was supposed to be the stone base, with what you call the 'frame' as decorative stone carving around the outside. The rails and cover were going to be the second part.

However, the way you have done it, if we flatten the central object, it can actually be the walkway, with the 'frame' now being decorative stone carvings plus the wooden railings!

The central section will thus be an easy unwrap as it'll just need a simple stone texture. The frame will need a more complex texture, involving stone and wood.

The attached image was the original (loose!) inspiration - though I'm going for wooden supports and the bridge is over a gorge, rather than over a stream!

Thanks again!

Roger

"You get what everyone gets, you get a lifetime!" - Death, The Sandman Library

First you Dream, then you ... - Neil Gaiman, 2001

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 12th Aug 2009 21:37
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Yeah, I agree, the frame is going to be a bit more of a challenge since you don't want a solid color. It won't be too hard, it's just going to take time.

I'm doing something right now, but I'll make the video later. Again, it won't be a step by step.

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Dream And Death
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Posted: 15th Aug 2009 18:35
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Well, the texture needs work and so does the UV mapping, but I got there in the end. I think I'll do some of the simpler models needed for my game and then come back and revisit this when my skills have improved.

Anyone want to offer any advice or comments, however, feel welcome!





"You get what everyone gets, you get a lifetime!" - Death, The Sandman Library

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 16th Aug 2009 05:49
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Sorry I never made the UV mapping video for you Dream and Death. I've been a bit busy. I've made them for you here now though! (Sorry for the dull voice =/):

http://screencast.com/t/nEYigpVcNj
(I reached the 5 min limit on the video on this one, but I was wrapping up with "Don't worry about making it look pretty. We are going to work with it in Max some more."

UV Layout base: http://screencast.com/t/1uGgfnekHc

UV Layout theory probably isn't going to be all that helpful for you. TexTools was the script for Max I was talking about that makes life easier, but unfortunatly it's only for the newer editions of Max. This sort of cut my video explaination short, but at least you know how to do it in theory. You'll just have to do it the hardway... unfortunately.

http://screencast.com/t/6xRojHZWxQz

Sorry if these video's were sort of all over the place. It was my first time making a video tutorial for someone


"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
Current Project: http://strewnfield.wordpress.com/ (Last updated 06/11/09)
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