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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Effectiveness of CQC (Close quaters combat)

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creator of zombies
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 18:13
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The above title may be a little confusing for some, so allow me to explain.
I have an extensive martial arts history ranging from a 1st dan in Wadu Ryu karate and a few years in the art of aikido. Now some would say that's perfectly adequate...until you consider the mechanics of both martial arts. The problem in my opinion with most martial arts that call themselfs a "self defence" is the fact that the training isnt realistic to a reallife street situation. Training in both arts is conducted so you are already anticipating your opponents attack, within a controlled enviroment. This is completely different to a street scenario where there are no rules and no essence of fair fighting. So if the time ever came where you needed to call on your "self defence" training, most people would find that under the effect of the adrenaline dump, your fine motor skills go out the window and your unable to recall or execute your complex moves that you where taught in the dojo.
With this in mind, I untertook Unarmed combat a few years ago. Before I continue, I should state this: Unarmed Combat and self defence are notthe same. The deffinition of unarmed combat is:To kill or render and enemy ineffective. My instructor was a Roayl Marine who basicly taught me the WWII Combatives system by Colonel Rex Applegate in a matter of weeks. To put simply, it was a unarmed combat system that had been designed to turn the average man into a combatative soldier without the use of weapons on the battlefiled in a matter of days.
The system is frankly brutal, and teaches very basic movements such as: Knee to the groin to escape a release, eye gouging and the palm strike (combined with edge of hand strikes to the neck and arms etc).While this system is simple to use, I still see it adopts a tae kwon do influcence with the use of the basic "warrior stance" as the fighting stance, whilst using open hands.
Getting to the point, Im aware that the techniques taught could maim or brutaly kill if used with too much force, but what Im basicly asking is, has anyone ever used the system of unarmed combat in a real life situation, and how effective is it.

CoZ

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C0wbox
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 18:18 Edited at: 1st Sep 2009 18:19
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CQB? - Close Quarters Bombat?


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creator of zombies
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 18:21
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Quote: "CQB? - Close Quarters Bombat?"

Haha! Darn Typos!. Could a MOD please change alter the typo from a B to a C please.

CoZ


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David R
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 18:40
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I believe CQB is Close Quarters Battle, and hence synonymous, but yeah, clearly CoZ meant to type CQC

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AndrewT
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 18:42
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No, no, no, he mean Close Quarters Wombat--it's the training program you must go through before you are legally allowed to fight a wombat.

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 18:42
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It's an interesting question you ask, and cool that you have taken training in that field. Last time I tried martial arts I quit after a week or so.
Anyways, whatever close quarters combat is (it sounds cool), I'm not so sure what you mean.
But anyways, I've been in about 2 fights in my life in which I was bullied. I survived, and even yet I won (though I'm not the tough guy).
The problem with martial arts is that if you're not a pro, most likely in a fight you won't be using them, you'll just do whatever you need to save your life.
-Adrian

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creator of zombies
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 18:53 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2009 04:37
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Quote: "whatever close quarters combat is (it sounds cool), I'm not so sure what you mean."


CQC, or Unarmed combat as it's most commonly called, is an offensive,defence system.

CoZ

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lazerus
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 19:30
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I got mugged about a year ago, I just punched the first one and the other ran ^^

And yes fight or flight kicks in and wow its a huge adreanlin rush. I could'nt breathe properly from it, but they were gone so all good.

Fighting stlye, street ninja.

Truth of the matter//
Showing dominance is not a good thing all the time, It was a very lucky punch to his jaw, which broke my kunckle. The lads where the same heightish and looked my age. I choose to hit the one who asked since he was the dominant one, yeah smarts helped thier.

If however they pulled a weapon/ the other choose to attack then i wouldnt had been so lucky.


So all in all, its not skill without practise, its luck

"Good never just happens, fate feels pity and grants a calm before the storm...
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Pus In Boots
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 20:55
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On the topic of martial arts/self-defense vs. unarmed combat, when did the concept of a fair fight go down the drain? If I wanted to beat someone up, I'd offer them out and fight them one-on-one, instead of having my mates jump them at lunchtime, or kicking them in the gentlemens. In a fair fight, that self-defense stuff would work because it is; to some degree, taking place in a controlled scenario.

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 20:58
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Quote: "On the topic of martial arts/self-defense vs. unarmed combat, when did the concept of a fair fight go down the drain? If I wanted to beat someone up, I'd offer them out and fight them one-on-one, instead of having my mates jump them at lunchtime, or kicking them in the gentlemens. In a fair fight, that self-defense stuff would work because it is; to some degree, taking place in a controlled scenario."


Yes I believe in fair fighting, the problem is, violence is never the solution.
-Adrian

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creator of zombies
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 22:17 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2009 04:38
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Quote: "when did the concept of a fair fight go down the drain? "

Since people now carry knives etc on them to protect themselfs etc. If someone pulls a bottle, knife or just goes to hit me without due cause, and it's me or him, well its deffinately not going to be me.
Unarmed combat is a sense doesnt have to be used to kill, but it can be used to stop a fight quickly.
You may think Im being overly violent, but I myself have never actually started a fight in my life, and neither do I go looking for it. You should attempt to avoid confrontation at all costs, and the above action should only be taken if you have attempted to diffuse the situation.
But looking at the technique, It's a simple, highly effective technique that wouldnt be taught in martial arts. I operate on the principle of: If you cant see you cant fight. If you cant breathe you cant fight. So you take either or both of those away for a short peroid of time, and you have yourself a ineffective target. Also keep in mind that pain overides the thought process and intense pain can cause involuntery actions, such as raising of the hands to defend from an eye gouge, thus exposing other parts of the body (e.e the kidneys, solar plexus and the ribs).
Also keep in mind that the number one priority in any street fight is to upset your opponents balance, and keep him at arms reach with the use of low kicks and body blows, before moving in closer. Once in a grappeling, or close position with your opponent, you elbows can be used effectively for strikes against the temple, nose or jaw, aswel as edge of hand strikes to the neck or carotid artery which will produce a knockout.

[/Combat lesson over]

CoZ

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 22:27 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2009 04:38
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It doesn't look like I wanna mess with you.
From what you've just said, I swear I've heard that technique somewhere before.
-Adrian

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creator of zombies
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 22:43 Edited at: 1st Sep 2009 22:45
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Quote: "From what you've just said, I swear I've heard that technique somewhere before."

It's widely known amongst the special forces and army because its an effective and fast technique of putting someone down.

Actually, because you all probably have a strong interest in combat, here are more lessons. I take no responsibility for how these are used: For educational perposes only!.

The Japanese strangle: From the rear
*Approch your opponent from behind, and execute a knuckle strike or knee strike to the kidneys to cause your opponent to bend backwars.
* Place your left forearm around your opponents neck, and your right hand behind his head.

*Now put you left hand through the hole in your right elbow.

*Finally, Push back with your left forearm and forwards with your right hand behind the head, with your right shoulder pressing against the enemies head.

*Remember to keep your opponent leaning backwards so he cant regain balance.

Result = Suffocation within 5 secconds

------
Arm Break from handshake#
*grab your oppnents hand
*Jerk him and his arm forward so his arm is outstretched
*Strike his elbow with your left hand using a palm or forearm strike. Remember to step out slightly to the left when doing this so you get the appropriate angle to deliever the force needed.

Result = Broken arm at elbow joint.

------
Good old unarmed combat days!

CoZ


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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 22:58
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Cool. Those are very cool techniques buddy.
-Adrian

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creator of zombies
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 23:29 Edited at: 1st Sep 2009 23:32
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@AdrianoJones Wannabe: Thanks. Here is a few more for you all:

Front Choke
* Create a prong like shape with your thumb and first two fingers
* Clasp hold of you opponents trachea
* Whilst squeezeing tightly, pull the trachea outwards.

Result = Suffocation and crushed trachea



CoZ

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 23:31
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How responsible of you to post such things here. Were you not made to sign a NDA?

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 23:32 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2009 04:35
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Ouch!
Now, for sure I don't wanna get into a fight with you.
Hey a question out of curiosity, are you buff?
Anyways cool techniques, how long have you been learning this?
-Adrian

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creator of zombies
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 23:37 Edited at: 1st Sep 2009 23:38
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@NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret:
Quote: "Were you not made to sign a NDA?"

No because Im not part of the military or special forces. I was just taught unarmed combat as part of an self defence course a while back. Of course It's not intended to be used, although just to be safe, Ill remove the one about the sentry, although to be honest, Im not encouraging people to use them, Im just telling them and giving and example of what unarmed combat can do. Infact, you can discover most of what Im saying just by searching unarmed combat etc in google.

Quote: "Hey a question out of curiosity, are you buff?"

Hehe...Well Im slightly toned due to all my martial arts and combat work, but Im mainly quite slim.

Quote: "Anyways cool techniques, how long have you been learning this?"

I have undertaken wadu ruy karate and aikido for about 8 years, but unarmed combat in itself is very simple to learn. It can be learnt in a few weeks just by reading some of the many free books available actually because its all to do with natural motor movement.

CoZ

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 23:38
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Quote: "Hehe...Well Im slightly toned due to all my martial arts and combat work, but Im mainly quite slim."


Eight pack? 10 inch biceps?
Quote: "
I have undertaken wadu ruy karate and aikido for about 8 years, but unarmed combat in itself is very simple to learn. It can be learnt in a few weeks just by reading some of the many free books available actually because its all to do with natural motor movement."


Cool, I think I should start learning some of these as they prove to be quite useful in a tight situation.
-Adrian

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Pus In Boots
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2009 03:35
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Quote: "
You may think Im being overly violent"


On the contrary, this stuff is gold. I might just have to do some further reading (not to mention start hitting the gym again).

Spewing crap since 2005!
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DestroyerHive
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2009 03:43 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2009 03:50
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Hey CoZ!!!! You wrote a thread about how you were leaving the forums for school!!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!!

EDIT

If every millisecond in your life was 10 problems in the world, you'd be immortal
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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2009 03:54
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Quote: "Hey CoZ!!!! You wrote a thread about how you were leaving the forums for school!!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!! "


Lol. Either university is a breeze, or it hasn't started yet.
But let's make the time count.
-Adrian

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KeithC
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2009 04:44
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First off; there is no such thing as a fair fight...never will be. Anyone who tries to fight fair will be the loser.

Secondly; this whole discussion is not a good thing to put into a forum that is frequented by youngsters...especially laying out actual moves. Suppose someone reading this want to try out a move on their sibling, or a class bully? Crushing someone's trachea (either screwing around, or trying to stop a bully who's using non-lethal force on you) will ruin their life. There are actual court cases where a brother has seen/heard of a certain move; then tried it out on a friend or sibling...resulting in death. Many kids do not understand the concept of death or great physical harm.

Do not discuss something of this nature on these boards again, this is non-negotiable. I have been to War; I know what can happen when lethal force is used. I also work in a prison, and am trained to react to lethal force...it is not something to be taken lightly.

-Keith
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