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3 Dimensional Chat / Baking Normal Maps?

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SJHooks
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2009 01:37 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2009 01:37
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Well, actually I know HOW to bake normal maps in blender (what I did before):
The point is I just unwrapped a cube, unwrapped it, and then subsurfed it to make a sphere, then I duplicated it and subsurfed it some more, and so on and baked the normal map exactly like in 3DS Max.OK, HERE IS THE PROBLEM: I just used a sphere, in which making a high detailed version is easier. But for objects, I won't know how to make two seperate versions. Do I start and make a lower poly, then from the lower poly make the high poly, then bake, or do I make two entirely seperate models, and then bake. I'm perplexed on the subject...
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greenlig
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2009 02:57
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You can do it a few ways, and really, it's up to you. You could model the low polygon model, uvmap it, then duplicate it onto a different layer, and make that one high polygon. That would work.

Or, you could model the high-poly version, and use the Retopo tools to create the low polygon mesh.

The choice is yours. The important thing is though, you need to let both models inhabit the same space. By that I mean, when you are baking the normals, the two objects will need to be in exactly the same position. I suggest making the low poly, duplicating it, moving it to another layer, making it high poly, then baking it like that. That way, you don't need to move the object.

Sorry, I just woke up and this may be a bit scrambled!

Greenlig

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SJHooks
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2009 03:37
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Okay. The problem with blender is that (I think) it doesn't have the retopo tool, so I'll just have to go with the way you suggested. Thanks. Just one last thing: On a smooth surface, when it's normal mapped its the same look; its the same flat surface. Do I need to normal map the object in an object normal map rather than a tangent one? I mean, how can you bake the normals of a high poly, smooth figure, to a low(er) poly version? I get details like bumps,small spikes, etc, but not a normal surface... Say you made a low poly sphere (about 700 tris) and then you made a higher poly one (say 1,000,000 tris) How would you bake the smoothness of the normals to lower poly one? Whenever I try it's just a plain flat normal map...
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greenlig
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Posted: 24th Sep 2009 04:51
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Blender does have a very good retopo tool, I wouldn't suggest it if it didn't

To bake the high-poly normals to the low-poly object, you need to have the objects in the same position, have the normal baking option set to "Tangent", click "Selected to active", and Bake.

If I understand correctly you want to bake the normals of a high-poly, unedited sphere, onto a low poly one? You won't see any normal difference with that, because there is no extra data. If you smooth the normals on the low-poly object, using the "Set Smooth" Button in the edit tab, it has the same effect. You don't need to bake a high poly version to it.

Use Normal maps to create the illusion of detail. If you were to get that sphere, and add panels, rivets, and other do-dads to the surface, THEN bake it, you would get cool detail that doesn't need to be rendered at polygons.

Hope that helps,
Greenlig

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SJHooks
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Posted: 24th Sep 2009 05:04
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No no, it's not that. I know how to bake normal maps, my question was where I would start with more complex objects. If I were planning to do this with a gun, then I was wondering if I made a low poly version, then duplicated, made a high poly version from the high poly version, and then bake. You pretty much answered my problem in your first post. Honestly I'm quite releaved that baking normals is possible in blender. Frankly, making textures could be made the same way. Instead of baking the normal from the high poly to the low poly, just add a color and then bake. IF it's already UV mapped then just Texture in basic colors according to the UV Map, sculpt in some details, and then bake the texture. Then re-edit the new texture to your liking. Baking, I find it, is a very useful tool
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greenlig
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Posted: 24th Sep 2009 05:09
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Yeah, you can do exactly that. I find that I do that quite regularly. I make a model, create a simple texture for the UV's, bake it to the map, and then edit it in Photoshop. Also, you can render out the Ambient Occlusion map, and then apply that as well in Photoshop. So much goodness can be achieved with Baking

Glad I could help mate.

Greenlig

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SJHooks
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Posted: 24th Sep 2009 05:57
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That, and I just like the fact that if I bake basic colors to a Texture, then instead of importing the UV map to gimp or photoshop, and then using the laso tool to trace out each part of the UV map, then adding in some strange color so that I could use the magic wand tool to quick select the parts. I can just use this basic color Idea and save myself some major time! I'm starting to question why people even get 3DS Max or any program, probably the interface, some different function, or whatever. I'm just plain happy with Blender and Gimp. Both free (and royalty free, right?), and both very powerful . But anyways, say I were modeling a torch, would use blender's sculpting function to make the riggedy kind of wood, then do the bake thing, and bake the texture etc etc, and continue in gimp. Yay.
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Duke E
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Posted: 24th Sep 2009 11:40
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Making a low poly first then copy it and subsurf, then sculpt the high poly copy is the best bet i guess.

I found this post/tutorial on the blender forums helpful:
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=138194

Regards
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SJHooks
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Posted: 25th Sep 2009 04:27
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subsurfing isn't always the best method, it only works with certain models. The rest I'll just subdivide and then manually move the verticies into a more smoother looking model.
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Duke E
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Posted: 25th Sep 2009 11:29
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@SJHooks, quite right, my terminology is off, subsurf will make a cube in to a oval shape, subdivide gives more control
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SJHooks
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Posted: 26th Sep 2009 00:34
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heh heh okay
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greenlig
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Posted: 27th Sep 2009 01:28
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Better than using subsurf, use the multi-res options. You have better control over the way the mesh subdivides. For instance, you could get a cube, add a level of multi-res with "Simple Subdiv." on, and it wont look any different, it will just subdivide the mesh. THEN, you can add a level of multi-res with "Catmull-Clark" on, and that will smooth the edges, but because of the first level, it won't make it too smooth. You can also cycle back through your levels.

Really useful for sculpting.

Greenlig.

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