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3 Dimensional Chat / UVmap neccessary?

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Quik
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Location: Equestria!
Posted: 24th Sep 2009 17:38
so, is a UVmap necessary or can you stick with many different textures at one model? for an example, if i would make a house, would i need to make an UV mapped texture or can i stick with many textures? like 1 for each side? (hope u get my question) or would it turn out weird when put in a game? =P


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
henry ham
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Posted: 24th Sep 2009 19:09
look at it this way, all the models in retail games are uv mapped.
if a model is uv mapped then you can texture it just as you want & the game engine only needs to load 1 texture for the model.this helps to save memory usage so the game will run faster .


cheers henry

Van B
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Posted: 24th Sep 2009 19:26
It depends how nice you want your house to look - IMO UV mapping is a necessary evil, to get the best results from your work.

The other side of the coin though is actual texture usage, so models can use a single, repeated texture, like brick for instance. When this is the case, it's best to UV map anyway, quite easy really, but you don't concern yourself with squishing everything into the texture. I would usually start with a box map, then move all the parts around so they line up nicely. Then I scale the UV map so a brick texture would be repeated over the whole model. This technique is quite nice when you lightmap, as you can get away with a lot when that's the case - but the most important thing is you have a texture repeated, and because of that the actual resolution can be much better.

To get further away from time consuming modelling, I would suggest making a really nice level editor, so then you might have a plain brick building, but then add detail with a level editor. This means your plain brick building can be re-used, and different buildings take little time to put together. But then you add in detail, like windows and doors, as seperate objects. This is most convenient with FPS games as you can then detect different materials and stuff for physics or even just Sparky's collision plugin. So you could have different decals for brick, wood, metal, glass - all quite easily with that technique. By breaking things down to doors, windows, single material objects really, well UV mapping becomes a whole lot easier and quicker.

So I'd say you can take shortcuts, but you have to be prepared to spend time on an editor, which in the long run is no bad thing at all.


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Kravenwolf
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Location: Silent Hill
Posted: 24th Sep 2009 20:13
UV mapping is necessary no matter what model you're making. If you make a house with two walls longer than the other two, and you don't compensate for that difference in the UV Map, even if you use different textures for each wall, the longer walls' textures will be stretched (if not distorted completely).

If that wasn't what you were asking, and you were only wondering if you could UV map each wall, and give it a seperate texture, then yes, you could. But as it was already mentioned, it would require more memory to load four, or six, or ten indivual textures for a house, than it would to load just one.


Kravenwolf

Quik
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Posted: 24th Sep 2009 20:41
hm, but if the house was for example VERY low poly and i mean REALLY, could i get away with 4 124x124 textures without having the memory to slow down too much? i can show an example on the house i have made if necessary =P


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
djmaster
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Posted: 24th Sep 2009 20:51
The best thing is to just learn uvmapping,either download some LithUnwrap or something.You could do that wouldnt slow down too much but that is just not the way to go.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Sep 2009 20:54 Edited at: 24th Sep 2009 20:57
You can stick 1 texture on 4 sides of a house if you want to. The windows will be repeated unless you have window limbs, Then you can have 1 window repeated as well wherever you want. It saves memory. Make sure to use limbs though, because separate models for windows will not work with the Z clipping. The left spaceship in my siggy uses about 6 1024*1024 textures. The right one uses about 4 small 512*512 textures.

Quik
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Posted: 24th Sep 2009 20:59
i know how to UVmap and all that, just that i had made a house for fun, with 4 different textures^^ but iam UVwrapping it now =P thanks for answering my question^^


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
tatts
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Location: Ontario,Canada
Posted: 25th Sep 2009 04:27
Quote: "look at it this way, all the models in retail games are uv mapped.
if a model is uv mapped then you can texture it just as you want & the game engine only needs to load 1 texture for the model.this helps to save memory usage so the game will run faster ."


Well, After playing with Oblivion and its media for a while I can say this is only true for non worldly objects for example apples, barrows, books and any interactive models usually one texture. characters in oblivion actually have up to 10 or more textures.

As far as world objects like the houses and castles are actually made up from multple textures with most of them being seemless for tiling. However, a couple things i have noticed about the world objects is that hardly any of them are made up as a solid mesh, any face that is not seen by the camera does not even exist. Actually even the character models are made up from multiple mesh objects. the interior walls, ceilings and floors are just standard plains, the LOD houses i believe actually have 4 or more textures them selves, and all models have textures no bigger than 512 x 512, there are only a few that are up 1024 in size. World editors such as 3DWS and Deled seem to be the programs that you don't want to use. Cartshop is good as it can model using splines rather than using solid objects. I gotta say, for the twenty bucks that I spent for Oblivion and having an actual commercial game that I can explore legally how it was created, It was the best twenty bucks I'd ever spent.

I'm not sure how other commercial companies make their objects but this is how Bethesda works with their games. If you have Oblivion you can go to their Official Oblivion page and download their construction kit. You can find it under their download page.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/games/oblivion_overview.htm
Van B
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Posted: 25th Sep 2009 10:04
It's a shame you didn't get the extended edition Tatts, it has an absolutely awesome documentary added, shows how they work in each department - from gathering textures to designing levels. You should try and find it, maybe it's on YouTube - but it shows them making dungeons, segment by segment and stuff like that. Well worth a look if you can find it.

I like to watch these things, as it can really inspire - I especially liked the Fable2 dev diary too. There should be a site devoted just to development diaries, would be so handy just to browse through all that stuff when your stuck for inspiration.


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tatts
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Posted: 25th Sep 2009 16:39
I did'nt even know there was an extended version with a documentary, Thanks Van B, I'll definately have to look that up.

I have to agree, It would be great to able to have a peek in some of their Development diaries. Would be a great learning ground for those who are interested. Even having a chance to go through their constuction set has taught me quite a bit about the way they design their objects, and how they set their portals and a whole lot more.

I Also like the terrain editing with oblivion, very easy to use. Although one thing that still eludes me is how to actually update an LOD terrain after modification. Hopefully I'll have that figured out eventually. This is actually one thing that I have noticed that differs from the LOD terrains that I see people hear trying to create. With oblivion, there is actually two seperate terrains which is the main terrain and the lod terrain. The main terrain is seperated in quadrants called cells. As the player moves the main cells appear and disappears according to the players position. The Lod terrain is a bit different, It seems to me that as the main segments loads and unloads, The lod terrain actually never disappears like the main terrain segments do. Instead the lod terrain seems to just drop below the main segments to be hidden from the camera view but only drops so far. In the construction set if you lower the terrain below the LODs maximum drop level, when you load up your mod you can actually see and walk through the lod as if it is not there.

Maybe we should just make a thread here to post pics illustrating how some of these things are done, and show how different commercial developers do things themselves. People can learn a lot from these construction sets for sure.
Quik
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Posted: 25th Sep 2009 20:06
yes they can for sure=P

by the way, ive heard from my little bro, that the ground textures in oblivion wasted too much space (they were bigger than needed) and he found a mod, wich improved the graphics of them AND aswell speeded up performence, now that i belive is interesting as you barely see the ground sometimes =P (when in a forest for example u see more grass than ground)

Quote: "Maybe we should just make a thread here to post pics illustrating how some of these things are done, and show how different commercial developers do things themselves. People can learn a lot from these construction sets for sure."


good idea tatts ^^


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
tatts
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Posted: 25th Sep 2009 21:18
I think I found that documentary your talking about VAN. there's a video on you tube in 4 parts on the making of oblivion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su_3bZnJhDw

@ Quik, If your talking about the size of the terrain textures themselves, then yeah they are all 512 x 512 as opposed to the textures being at 256 x 256 that I normally see. Not sure I understand what you mean though. But yes when your in a forest, you barely ever see the actual ground through all the grass, But you can turn the grass feature off completely so I'd think the texture size would have been for the detail and normals to look as everything else does. And yes there are mods for the terrains textures, mainly for the lod terrain as they just well.. they don't look very good if comparing to the main textures. And there are a lot of mods for performance. I'll take some snap shots of different things and create a thread for this so those that are curious that don't have oblivion can see what I'm talking about.
Quik
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Posted: 26th Sep 2009 00:06
something i KNOW is true, is that they have wasted a lot of polys on the GRASS ITSELF though =P each grass "mesh" is like 20-40 polys =P yeah a thread about this would be nice


[Q]uik, Quiker than most

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