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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Are there any commercial games coming out in FPSC?

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cloudwalker
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 01:24
Hi all, please can you tell me if there are any commercial games coming out in FPSC? And if so do you have a website link?
bass guy1669
19
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Location: The Zone
Posted: 4th Oct 2009 09:03
Cry of the infected: http://cyborgarm.com/cryoftheinfected.shtml

come see night shift at http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=106003&b=25 see you there
Ekipshi
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 16:44
Robert D. Anderson and the legacy of Cthulu is the only one I know that went full commercial.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/adventure/legacyofcthulhu/index.html

xplosys
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 4th Oct 2009 17:16
The Commander Josh Chronicles

Letters Kingdom

Froggy Shootout

Cry of the Infected

Replicore

Anderson and the legacy of Cthulu

There may be more. It really depends on your definition of commercial. To me it means that they are for retail sale to the public.

Brian.

chidem
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 17:30 Edited at: 4th Oct 2009 17:30
My game, Pioneering: Explore the Early American West (http://www.thehistoryforge.com/) is available commercially - at the moment I am selling it through my site but it will be appearing on a large digital distribution platform in the next four or so weeks - sorry for the shameless plug!

Pioneering: Explore the Early American West - Website: http://www.thehistoryforge.com
xplosys
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 17:35
No shame in completing something and doing the work it takes to get it out there. It just lends credibility to the engine and all of us who use it. Best of luck with sales and continued development of future adventures.

Brian.

Wolf
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Location: Luxemburg
Posted: 4th Oct 2009 22:16
Quote: "
The Commander Josh Chronicles

Letters Kingdom

Froggy Shootout

Cry of the Infected

Replicore

Anderson and the legacy of Cthulu
"


I have to add that most of these suck.

God Helps the Beast in Me!
nikas
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 23:57
wow all those games are really not to be for sale.....At list i would not buy them....

Plystire
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 00:06
But the makers can at least say that they took the initiative to get it pubished and put out on the shelves. That's definitely something that not many people here can say.


The one and only,


AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 00:09
No way, Legacy of Cthulhu was crazy fun.
-Adrian

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darimc
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 03:44
Quote: "I have to add that most of these suck."
That was pretty rude.

Quote: "wow all those games are really not to be for sale.....At list i would not buy them...."
Well people would or they wouldn't be for sale. Besides some of them are great fun.

AaronG
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 05:23
Nah, darimc he's just being honest.



Marc Steene
FPSC Master
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 16:38
Quote: "I have to add that most of these suck."


That's a little bit harsh, but then again I am a fan of blunt statements

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KeithC
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 16:49
How about offering some actual "constructive criticism", instead of a blanket statement that they "suck"?
Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 17:59 Edited at: 5th Oct 2009 18:04
Quote: "Robert D. Anderson and the legacy of Cthulu is the only one I know that went full commercial.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/adventure/legacyofcthulhu/index.html"


It got pretty good ratings.

@Ekipshi: You do realise your signature image is 1.7MB?
nikas
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 00:08
from who?who the hell could say that it was a good game?come on now...i mean ok it was the best that fpsc creators can do but doesn't mean that it is good we live in 2009 you know...cod4 gears of war fallout etc are good games not this thing.....

nikas
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 00:11
It's tedious and frustrating and a complete mess. Worst of all is that it's not even hilariously inept; there's nothing funny about how awful the game is. and rating=1??????and this is good?hahahahaha

Plystire
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 00:16
nikas, I know you're not familiar with speaking to Benjamin, so I'll clue you in..... he's being sarcastic.


The one and only,


AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 00:43
Nikas: You are being awfully rude, and you're really pissing me off.
As far as FPSC games go, they can be better than a lot of games out there if you ask me. Legacy of Cthulhu was great.
What's your definition of a good game? Cutting edge, realistic graphics and physics like Crysis? Intense warfare battles, realistic battle scenes, dynamic worlds, open ended gameplay, stunning boss battles?
Ever played Pong? Tetris? They don't have any of the above - but they're awesome games.
And you call it a "thing". Well what would you feel if I called your games a piece of crap? Huh?
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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crispex
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 00:47 Edited at: 6th Oct 2009 00:50
Hate to say it, but most FPS Creator games are horrible in their own way. Most FPS Creator games are generic looking, buggy, etc.

Honestly it's ease of use takes away from the creativity people can have. If I want doors that shut when hitting a point, sure I can have them, but the real challenge isn't presented. Maybe that's why most FPS Creator games are generic, there is no real challenge to do better. Sure you can have great graphics, but whenever the graphics are intended to suffice for the lack of gameplay that makes a pretty crappy game. Sorta like Call of Duty 4. Sure the online play is fun, but let's be a little realistic, we all know that the story line is botched and crappy. Terrorists...no wait...RUSSIAN TERRORISTS. Come on now, it reminds me of every Tom Clancy game ever made.

Take a look at Crysis. Graphically one of the best games ever made. Sandbox 2 is a lot of fun, but once again the crappy gameplay and storyline isn't really one I'm interested in.

Anyway, my point is that most games produced by FPS Creator lack in story and originality. Sure, you can have some clever setups here and there, but as said the challenge of making a game is not presented, thus letting users create their dream without ever having to put forth any real effort.

Most overused game ideas:

-Terrorists.
-Russians.
-Zombies.
-Mercenaries.
-Biological weapons.
-Nuclear weapons.
-Nuclear fallout.
-Underground entrapment.
-Betrayal.
-Secret weapon stashes.
-Mysterious good guys.

Meh, I don't really want to go on.

Temporarly away from the Phoenix Sentry.
AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 00:50
There's a horrible stereotype of FPSC games here. Everything you said, was all based on opinion!!! How much you like a game is such and such, and how good a game is is based on how much a person likes it such and such.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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crispex
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 00:55
...

Wow. Please, step outside and come back whenever you are ready to have a serious discussion.

I'm not saying ALL FPS Creator games have a crappy storyline, I'm stating they all have flaws mainly due to the bugs presented in FPS Creator itself. Look on the release or WIP boards. All games look the same. Many rooms, lots of doors, vents, etc. The storyline on each one presented is one seen over and over before.

Sure, you can have an overused storyline, but it's the way you present it that determines the success of a game. Most games I notice around here are not delivering that creativity gamers want. Look at Portal. A different spin on a First Person Shooter. Look how well it did. Look at GTA IV. Graphically and physically a great game, but once again the storyline is vague and unoriginal.

When an opinion is shared by more than one person, I believe it is upgraded into the "fact" category.

Temporarly away from the Phoenix Sentry.
AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 01:00
Quote: "When an opinion is shared by more than one person, I believe it is upgraded into the "fact" category."


You believe, that's a fact, it is not, and that's a fact. Ok, one million people hate this game, while five people like it. Does that mean the game sucks? Heck no. It means those one million people don't like the game, while the five people do.

My point is, there is no way, that just because a majority shares an opinion, that it is a fact.
Let's say, four hundred idiots think that cats bark. While two smart ones say that they don't. Who's the right one? But this one is based on fact. Games on the other hand are based on opinion.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
Hey guys! Help me! Join the creative design forums! http://creativedesign.candorweb.com/index.php
crispex
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 01:05
You're confusing fact and opinion now. When the greater majority thinks something sucks, generally it is a unanimous decision that he game does indeed suck.

However, when science or other means have proven it wrong otherwise, then it becomes an indisputable fact.

Find holes in my theory all you want, it was just something said to get people thinking.

Anyway.

Regardless, there have been few games from FPS Creator that actually were loved by people outside of the community, people who have higher standards for a game.

Face it, people here are amazed by what others can do with FPS Creator. I know I am sometimes. But outside of the community the competition is fierce, and FPS Creator games do NOT compare to game being produced by others, using other game engines. FPS Creator is a game engine. You can reply "no it's a creation program" etc. But technically a pre-made, defined set of produced content that can be placed or edited is an engine.

Temporarly away from the Phoenix Sentry.
AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 01:11
Quote: "You're confusing fact and opinion now. When the greater majority thinks something sucks, generally it is a unanimous decision that he game does indeed suck."


Ok, that was confusing at first. But that doesn't mean anything at all. Whether a game sucks or not is up to no one but the person playing it. I don't care if five billion people in the world don't like the game, and the remaining hundred people like the game - whether the game sucks or not, is up to no one but the person playing it.
Ever heard the phrase?
You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can never pick your friend's nose.

There it's decided, there's no arguing with that. Whether a game sucks or not is up to you, and no one else.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
Hey guys! Help me! Join the creative design forums! http://creativedesign.candorweb.com/index.php
crispex
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 01:16
Indeed, but that's at the point where you should leave the opinion to yourself. Ever heard the phrase "Keep your opinions to yourself"? If many people have said a game is horrible, and you waltz in saying how it's great, you are just asking to be flamed. Otherwise known as: flamebait.

Regardless, I still stick with the original statement I made, most FPS Creator games are generic.

Temporarly away from the Phoenix Sentry.
AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 01:19
Quote: "Indeed, but that's at the point where you should leave the opinion to yourself. Ever heard the phrase "Keep your opinions to yourself"? If many people have said a game is horrible, and you waltz in saying how it's great, you are just asking to be flamed. Otherwise known as: flamebait."


Keep an opinion to yourself? Hm. And have you seen half the users on this forum complaining this game sucks, that game sucks?
Well anyways, I'm certainly not gonna follow all the non constructive posts going on here, I'm certainly just sticking to my opinion, I am my own master after all.

I apologize for sounding rude, my temper really goes off easily when people speak for others.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
Hey guys! Help me! Join the creative design forums! http://creativedesign.candorweb.com/index.php
crispex
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 01:25
Your temper clearly goes off over regular discussion. I believe that's called flaming whenever you do, too.

And who are you to decide what is constructive posting and what is not? Since when where you announced to be the connoisseur of forum posts? I believe you saying that makes you a hypocrite.

Temporarly away from the Phoenix Sentry.
AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 01:38
Quote: "And who are you to decide what is constructive posting and what is not? Since when where you announced to be the connoisseur of forum posts? I believe you saying that makes you a hypocrite."


I'm not. I'm just tired of all the posts that really ticks people off.
A hypocrite you say? You can call me whatever you want. I'm just not gonna follow the pattern of these posts.

Quote: "Your temper clearly goes off over regular discussion."


That wasn't regular discussion at all. That was speaking for everyone else.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
Hey guys! Help me! Join the creative design forums! http://creativedesign.candorweb.com/index.php
xplosys
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 01:39
I tend to look at FPS Creator a little differently than some. I've used this analogy before, and I find that it fits well.

If you bring a Volkswagen to an Indy 500 race, not only will you loose but your Volkswagen will be compared to the other cars in the race. If you didn't want to compete with them, why did you show up? The same thing goes for FPS Creator.

It's not that your trying to make COD4, it's that your making an FPS and when you do it will be compared to other FPS's. I don't think there's any way around that, or any allowance for "hey, I used FPSC.... give me a break!"

Look at some of the games that did go to sale, and I don't want to use the word commercial for the same reason. It just doesn't qualify well when other commercial titles sell in the millions. But take something like Froggy Shootout for example. I think it was well made and executed, and did not compete with other FPS's as we think of them today. Is there a niche there? I think so. The same could be said for other titles like Letters Kingdom.

Like it or not, if you're going to make an FPS you are going to be competing in the FPS field, and I'm sorry to say that you won't fare well. Nor should you considering the price of this engine, you have little to no game making experience, and you work alone - part time with little funds.

I think FPS Creator has potential and can make good games, but you're going to have to get outside the normal FPS to get away from being judged with the FPS norm.

Brian.

crispex
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 01:49
Quote: "I'm not. I'm just tired of all the posts that really ticks people off."


Nobody else is getting angry but you.

Quote: "It's not that your trying to make COD4, it's that your making an FPS and when you do it will be compared to other FPS's. I don't think there's any way around that, or any allowance for "hey, I used FPSC.... give me a break!""


But the problem is people are NOT making FPS's different than any other. Also, there shouldn't be any breaks for using FPS Creator. Using it is a break enough, you don't have to code, or do any of that. Just build and go.

I also agree completely with your post, while some good efforts are made, they really don't mean anything in the big gaming world.

Temporarly away from the Phoenix Sentry.
nikas
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 02:13
i will say it in a simple way..The product is used by 11 years old children what do you expect?i dont say that the children must not use it it is just that they cant really make a good game cause they cant judje what is good and what is not ...the fpsc games are good if they are used properly behing a game there must be a good story and then everything else...

Ekipshi
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 02:32
Everyone, relax, relax, sit down, have a .
Cloudwalker, let me just give you some advice. You can make a "commercial" game with FPSC. But, don't expect to be making 40$ a pop. More or less around 5$ at the most. FPSC games are fun, but as xplosys has said, most people are going to take the more intuitive and, team-built, heavily funded, super-graphics enhanced games. If you keep your games cheap however for a fun little game you've made, you may make some more sales then if you just went off and said buy this game for 40$
(matter of fact, I'm pretty sure I'd never pay 40$ for an FPSC game.)
FPSC is not really an engine made to create big, hitlist shooters. It's mainly for a hobby and for fun. If you're really interested in trying to make full games, I suggest you take some time into learning C++ or another scripting language (C++ is probably your best bet.)

I hope this helps out a bit, I hope you enjoy FPSC nonetheless
It really is fun and gives you something to do. If you're friends tell you your game sucks, ask them where's their game?

All the best
-Ekipshi

AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 03:28
Quote: "Nobody else is getting angry but you."


I'm getting angry by the fact that people aren't respecting opinion. "Sucks" is a word I never use to describe anything, because I know that somewhere in this world, someone disagrees with me, and that's fine.
Quote: "
i will say it in a simple way..The product is used by 11 years old children what do you expect?i dont say that the children must not use it it is just that they cant really make a good game cause they cant judje what is good and what is not ...the fpsc games are good if they are used properly behing a game there must be a good story and then everything else..."


Well there's plenty of FPSC games that have a good story and such and such.
And 11 year old children? Look at me, look at half the users on this forum.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
Hey guys! Help me! Join the creative design forums! http://creativedesign.candorweb.com/index.php
Thraxas
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 03:59 Edited at: 6th Oct 2009 04:00
People get tired of me saying it, and accuse me of all sorts of things but I am very tired of how people treat each other's work here.

Whether or not you like a game or not doesn't mean you have to say it "sucks". I'm often told I want these forums to be a perfect utopia where everyone loves everyone's work and never a bad word is uttered. This is not true, I don't have a problem with people giving honest feedback. Not everyone is going to like everything, but keep the criticism constructive. "This sucks" is not constructive. It offers nothing to the creator, how can they make their game stop "sucking"?

I would also like to see the completed games from the people who say these are rubbish games, so we can all see how it should be done!

On a side note: 1,000,000 people sharing the same opinion doesn't make it fact. I think Shakespeare is boring and rubbish, it doesn't make it fact.

AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 04:23
Quote: "People get tired of me saying it, and accuse me of all sorts of things but I am very tired of how people treat each other's work here.

Whether or not you like a game or not doesn't mean you have to say it "sucks". I'm often told I want these forums to be a perfect utopia where everyone loves everyone's work and never a bad word is uttered. This is not true, I don't have a problem with people giving honest feedback. Not everyone is going to like everything, but keep the criticism constructive. "This sucks" is not constructive. It offers nothing to the creator, how can they make their game stop "sucking"?

I would also like to see the completed games from the people who say these are rubbish games, so we can all see how it should be done!

On a side note: 1,000,000 people sharing the same opinion doesn't make it fact. I think Shakespeare is boring and rubbish, it doesn't make it fact."


That was pretty much the point I was trying to make, thanks for clearing it up Thraxas.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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Plystire
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 04:39
Quote: "I would also like to see the completed games from the people who say these are rubbish games, so we can all see how it should be done!"


And thus I go back to my previous statement. Very few here have what it takes to do what the users they've been bashing have done. Grow some gourds and put your media where your mouth is.

I, much unlike the mass amount of people that make WIP threads, create a WIP in hopes of finding constructive feedback. I don't want to hear "It sucks" just as much as I don't want to hear "This is awesome". The proper form of feedback goes thusly:
- If your comment is negative, elaborate on how the game could be better.
- If your comment is positive, elaborate on what was good and how it could be better. Also try to find something "wrong" with it, so that it can be brought to light and corrected if necessary.

Is that so much to ask? No. In fact, people started doing the whole "the lighting needs work" when they didn't have anything else they could come up with... now it's over-done, and while it may be true in instances, it's no longer really considered as "true feedback".


Much unlike the people ranting here about how these games suck, at least the staff member that reviewed the game brought to light the aspects of the game that he did not appreciate or enjoy. At least he gave the creators something to think about and do better in the future.


The one and only,


Gunn3r
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 05:07
Thank you, Plystire, for pointing out the biggest problem that I have with these forums. We're too considered about trying not to hurt others feelings, or make ourselves look like picky imbeciles, so we say generic comments that have no effect to the designer. Since I started remaking Emergence, I've received maybe 1 or 2 decent comments out of the 30 that the thread says it has. For my free soundtracks that I have released, I've received a couple of decent comments when I first released it for sale, but have received nearly nothing when I've released it for free. I'm not saying that I need a comment on it, but if you do comment, make it at least somewhat meaningful. Instead of saying, "the lighting needs work", say "In your second screenshot, the light color that you use doesn't really match the style of the entities used", or "Great job on the lighting in the second screenshot. I didn't think of putting a light through a window on the ceiling"
Moral of the story - make the comments count.

As for those of you who continue to say that the commercial games are "rubbish", I would have to agree with Ply and Thraxas - I'd like to see you do better. I'm a BOTB developer, and yet, I don't feel that my work is even anywhere close to being commercial quality. I think that the games that have gone commercial are at that level, however.

And while most of the users of FPSC are under the age of 18, or at least, that's how they act, that doesn't mean that the some who act maturely are not able to make a good enough game to be commercial. I know several people who are working on games, and have been for a while, but have never posted about it on the forums because of the whole issue with unnecessary and unhelpful comments.

Just my 2 cents.

Marc Steene
FPSC Master
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 05:57
Quote: "Call of Duty 4. Sure the online play is fun, but let's be a little realistic, we all know that the story line is botched and crappy. Terrorists...no wait...RUSSIAN TERRORISTS."


Who cares? There's a nuclear explosion

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crispex
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 06:15
First of all, I would never say a members game from here "sucks". I might say that about professional games because my opinion makes little to no relevant difference to them, but on these forums comments are more on a personal level, because we all live the same dream, to have that great game one day that everyone loves.

However, I do NOT believe in giving people false hope. It's like this, you know your kid is never going to be president one day, but you would like to just let the kid hear what he wants to hear, and usually like kids are, they forget eventually and realized it would have probably never happened anyway. I don't go around putting up posters, I don't take things too literally, I just tell him it so he will just move on, like we all do. I remember one time I wanted to be president, but then a year later I had different aspirations.

However, all of us here are old enough to know that we are not really going to get to the EA Games status on simple FPS Creator's game engine. The best you will get is where the game mentioned above got, on GameSpot, with a professional cover that sold a few copies. Basically FPS Creator is just a fun little dream maker / idea spawner. It's not to be taken literally, and it's not to be used to make the next Crysis. We use it because we all have ideas we want to express without simply learning to do all of the stuff the professional game companies do. Then at the end of the day, we admire our work, get constructive criticism, and keep building up that dream. That's the way it's meant to be.

In no way am I saying don't live out your dream, or let your dreams die. Look at the people who created the game "World of Goo". It was 2 friends who were making it for fun, and it's a very popular game. However, my whole point is people need to start moving on to learning professional game development strategy without using a drag and drop game maker. I reinstate that FPS Creator is great for fun games to share with your friends and competitions and idea spawning, but isn't practical. For anyone who wants to make a higher quality game, I strongly suggest taking a look at the Irricht C++ Engine, or even the Source Engine.

Temporarly away from the Phoenix Sentry.
AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 14:39
What you said above was much better crispex, but I got angry when you first said "FPS Creator games are horrible in your own way".
But thanks for clearing up your thoughts.
-Adrian

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chidem
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Posted: 6th Oct 2009 16:31
I really agree with Thraxas - why all the negativity - surely if anyone should be offering mutual support it should be the members of this community? There's certainly no need to be rude about the (hard) work others have put into using this software.

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Bugsy
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Location: another place in time
Posted: 6th Oct 2009 20:42
that scathing review of anderson and the legacies of cthulhu made me want to start a review thread.

anyway. one thing that stops quality from increasing exponetially is the lack of team requests- games are going to be cookie cutter that use all the same media sa every other game here! I'd like to see more team requests in the game development thread.

my question is- if anderson and the legacies of cthulhu can get reviewed and sold commercially- why wont everyone else at least try?

obviously- games cant be sold to people on this forum- because we all have FPSC and all can re create it: but try out your friends who dont know anything about your engine! they are unsuspecting and will buy your game because it's a nice shoot'em'up and it'd be fun!
Bigsnake
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Location: England
Posted: 6th Oct 2009 20:50
Quote: "Take a look at Crysis. Graphically one of the best games ever made. Sandbox 2 is a lot of fun, but once again the crappy gameplay and storyline isn't really one I'm interested in."


Sandbox 2 is truly amazing I agree , there is no limted to what you can do , except animating for cutscenes xD

Quote: "Graphically one of the best games ever made"


I have to admit that far cry 2 looks better , Mabe the same , I dont know really


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dark peanut
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Posted: 7th Oct 2009 04:18
Four words everyone: Kravenwolf's and Wolf's games.
For that matter most every WIP I've seen coming from our brothers (maybe sisters) from the German boards is absolutely stunning.

Thats all I have to say.


dark peanut

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 7th Oct 2009 04:22
Quote: "Four words everyone: Kravenwolf's and Wolf's games.
For that matter most every WIP I've seen coming from our brothers (maybe sisters) from the German boards is absolutely stunning.

Thats all I have to say.


dark peanut"


I agree, they are all very talented map designers, but haha, you're excluding all of us english board members.
-Adrian

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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 7th Oct 2009 05:09 Edited at: 7th Oct 2009 05:09
Quote: "haha, you're excluding all of us english board members."


Except for me Thanks, Dark Peanut


Kravenwolf

dark peanut
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Posted: 7th Oct 2009 05:10 Edited at: 7th Oct 2009 05:13
Not really, I just said that
Quote: "most every WIP I've seen coming from our brothers (maybe sisters) from the German boards is absolutely stunning."

There have also been some pretty amazing WIPs from our side as well but none have struck me as being good as the Germans' or Kravenwolf's.

Quote: " Thats all I have to say "



EDIT: Hehe you posted while I was writing Kraven. Really?? I was %110 sure you were from the German forums or from Germany or some Germaic country. Sorry man.

dark peanut

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danjo
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Posted: 7th Oct 2009 07:43 Edited at: 7th Oct 2009 14:56
the orginal question doesnt ask for whatever the REMOVED you think!
i didnt look at this thread to read your argumentitive dribble you call your opinions.
(directed at most of PAGE 1 !)
Plystire
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Posted: 7th Oct 2009 07:50
@danjo:

The OP's question was answered within the first 4-5 replies. It's your own fault for continuing any further than that.

As far as off-topicness goes, if the conversation is revolving around or spawned from the original topic, they are not in the wrong.


Now... please accept others' rights to express their unrequested opinions when the topic allows for it. The topic, however, does not allow for your blithering outburst against other forumers. Keep it in check, or you may be moderated.


The one and only,


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