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Newcomers DBPro Corner / Looking for 3D Game Engine, down to two choices

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ChristianRoule
15
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Joined: 11th Oct 2009
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Posted: 12th Oct 2009 02:01
Alright, I'm new here and want to start off by saying that I am currently looking for a new 3D Game Engine to start off my career as an Indie. After months of looking at engines, I am down to two, DarkGame and NeoAxis. Which one I get all boils down to one thing, can the engine easily support the type of games I want to create without myself needing to either (a) code extensively or (b) modify the engine's source code.

The two types of games I am looking to create are Adventure-style Games (like Legend of Zelda or Silent Hill) and Console-style RPGs (like the Final Fantasy or Xenosaga series, where you go into a battle screen to fight).

I am not a programmer, I am a designer. I can work within the scripting framework of an engine easily, and can code moderately well to extend what is already there. I cannot (nor am I interested) in coding things from scratch, especially in C++, C#, or any other high-level programming language.

So, my question is, would this particular game engine require either extensive coding on my part, or require me to have access to the source code of the engine in order to create either or both types of games listed.

I have downloaded the demo and was extremely impressed. However, I did not find enough information within either the demo's framework or the included documentation to answer those questions. Thank you, anyone, in advance for your assistance.
lil marioman
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Posted: 12th Oct 2009 06:11 Edited at: 12th Oct 2009 17:17
I think DarkGameStudio would be your best option. NeoAxis has a good features, but :

-There's only 1 developer and from what I hear, the documentation is in poor english...
-Coding in C# is required
-the price is higher
-Case-Sensitive

Now with DarkGameStudio, you can start off with DarkBasic Professional - which is a fairly easy program. It isn't even case sensitive!

Print "Hello World"
and
pRiNt "Hello World" both mean the same thing.

Loading 3D objects is pretty easy too.

For Example



Would load a DirectX file called 'cube' and control the camera using the arrowkeys. But you can figure that out by the code itself.

Also, if you bought the Dark Game Studio bonanza, you'd get Dark AI, Dark Physics, Dark Lights, and eXtends.

That's not all. We have a large collection of TPC (third party command plugins) that help you even more.

With Neo-Axis, it would take quite a while to code all the physics and AI and lightmapping.. but if you use the plugins provided with Dark Game Studio, it becomes a piece of cake. And everyonce in a while a new plugin from TGC will be availible.

And lastly, when you feel like you want to take the jump to C++, DarkGDK is included with Dark Game Studio. It's pretty much a C++ version of Dark Basic Pro. About 95% of the commands are ported, but modified slightly. (But keep in mind, C++ is case sensitive, meaning DarkGDK is too. You may have to look up a few things in the documentation, but it's no trouble at all.)

For example:

Load Object "cube.x", 1
Would Become
dbLoadObject ("cube.x",1);

It's still pretty straight forward. And best of all, the Dark AI, Dark Physics, and Dark Lights ALL work with DarkGDK! (eXtends doesn't, however.)

And if you're ever stuck, we have a massive userbase to help!



ChristianRoule
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Posted: 12th Oct 2009 07:14
Thank you! I think this about settles it for me!
The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 13th Oct 2009 21:35
Quote: "Thank you! I think this about settles it for me! "

I think you should perhaps think a little bit more before you make a final decision.


Quite clearly lil fellow here has never used NeoAxis.
NeoAxis is pretty much a full development suite whereas DarkBasic is a programming tool. If are unwilling to want to learn to program using a high level language then DBPro will get you nowhere as this is the only way you are going to be able to implement all of this stuff (that's not to say it isn't capable, just take a look at the screenshot gallery). NeoAxis would suit your needs better in my opinion as I have already mentioned, it is a full development suite. Straight out of the box it implements Physics, AI, shaders and loads more. There are extensive tutorials on the site to get you on your way and the engine itself includes a set of templates for various genres such as RTS, RPG, FPS etc.
Finally, the non-commercial license for NeoAxis is completely free, so my best advice to you would be to go out and at least try it - after all, you have nothing to loose.

One other stunning engine I might recommend is Unity3D which I think has picked up much praise on these forums - although the license is a little pricey if you are looking for something around the price of DarkGame Studio.


At the end of the day, NeoAxis/Unity will give you the quickest headstart and is more geared towards designers than programmers. But the immense feeling of satisfaction that you get when you finish a project in DBPro is easily worth the blood, sweat and tears that'll you'll shed to get to that position


Good luck.

BMacZero
18
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Joined: 30th Dec 2005
Location: E:/ NA / USA
Posted: 14th Oct 2009 03:22 Edited at: 14th Oct 2009 03:23
Quote: "I cannot (nor am I interested) in coding things from scratch, especially in C++, C#, or any other high-level programming language."

You may run into problems here with DarkBASIC. It is one of the easiest actual programming languages to learn I've seen, but it is still a programming language. I took at least a few months for me to actually be able to make a game that anyone would want to play, and I'm a very mathematically-oriented person.

I guess it all depends on your definition of "from scratch". DarkBASIC does a lot more of the work for you than C++, but you still have to do a lot.

Bursar
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Posted: 14th Oct 2009 11:30
Looking at the types of games you want to make, maybe RPGMaker is better suited to you.
KISTech
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Location: Aloha, Oregon
Posted: 14th Oct 2009 20:11
RPGMaker? Seriously? Maybe if he's 12.

Making almost any game is going to require some programming. No matter what development environment you choose, you'll need to be prepared to program in it, or hire someone to do the programming.

If you're not an artist you'll need someone for that too. 3D art, 2D art, music, sound effects, all come into play.

There's a lot involved, especially in a multiplayer RPG, even if it's not technically an MMO.

Just wanting you to be fully prepared. I've been at it for 2 years, rewritten the code at least 4 times, gone through 4 artists and 2 musicians during that time. I thankfully have an artist now that believes in the project, and likes getting paid for his work. I'm the programmer and designer, and even I find myself needing some help now and then. (I've been a programmer for 25 years..)

Here's my opinion of TGC products. It's not an uncommon opinion around here.

DarkBASIC Professional - Very capable as a game client for standalone and multiplayer games with the addition of a few plugins. Very easy to learn.

DarkGDK (using C++) - Very capable as a game client or game server for any type of game. It's C++ so there's a learning curve if you're not a programmer. Updates lag ever so slightly behind DBPro updates.

DarkGDK.Net (using C#.Net or Visual BASIC.Net) - Perhaps slightly slower than C++, but just as capable as DarkGDK with C++. Updates lag ever so slightly behind DarkGDK updates.

Deciding which development environment to use for your game is the hardest part I think. I spent 6 months evaluating several of them in my price range and experience level. The TGC product line is where I landed.

thenerd
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Location: Boston, USA
Posted: 14th Oct 2009 23:42
Quote: "RPGMaker? Seriously? Maybe if he's 12."


you insulting me?


forever loading...
Bursar
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Posted: 15th Oct 2009 11:10
Quote: "I want to create without myself needing to either (a) code extensively or (b) modify the engine's source code."

Quote: "I am looking to create Adventure-style Games and Console-style RPGs where you go into a battle screen to fight"

Quote: "I am not a programmer"

Quote: "I cannot (nor am I interested) in coding"


Looks me to like RPGMaker, or even GameMaker are perfectly suited to what the OP wants to achieve.

There's nothing wrong with starting off with a drag and drop type game creating application. If it gets you interested in creating games, and you feel you want to achieve more, then step up to something that includes a programming language, or dive into C++ or C#.
KISTech
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Posted: 15th Oct 2009 18:23
Quote: "you insulting me?"


My apologies to the younger crowd here. It's just, I went to the site and watched the demo video. I couldn't stop laughing... It was like a really bad infomercial.

thenerd
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Posted: 20th Oct 2009 22:54 Edited at: 20th Oct 2009 22:55
I just watched it, hilarious. but actually, that's what I started out with, that and Scratch


forever loading...
ChristianRoule
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Posted: 20th Oct 2009 23:14
Thank you everyone for your input!

Actualyl, I have been developing in RPGMaker since the early 2000's and have put out several highly successful games in a niche market. I am ready for the big times and I believe DBPro is right for me for now.

I should clarify what I mean by programming. I mean starting from scratch with a language and not an engine to work off of, such as DirectX. DarkBasic doesn't intimidate me. Back in the early 90's, when I was in high school, I would make video games, mostly RPGs, out of Q-Basic. So this isn't too far of a leap for me.

I have my copy of the DarkGame Studio bonanza and am looking through the documentation provided by the community to get started. I will start with a smaller commercial game, see how that sells, and then slowly work my way up into something larger. I already have a Texture Artist and a Composer, and am looking for 3D Artists/Animators and other programmers. We'll see where that takes me.

Anyway, thank you again for the advice, everyone. I haven't ruled out NeoAxis for good, but I believe that DBPro is where I should start my career.

Ciao!
KISTech
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Posted: 21st Oct 2009 21:51
Fair enough.

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