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Geek Culture / Why this "mad" FPS hunt?

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MicroMan
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 17:19
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I just read a preview of the new Half-Life, and the reviewer went on about the concerns about FPSes... And I've seen in other places that this hunt for FPSes is quite intense.

Erm... I might be an idiot but doesn't FPS mean "Frames Per Second"? The human eye can't see more than 30-ish frames per second. That's why Hollywood uses the 24-per-second rule in their filmmaking.

Rather than push the machines to reach hundreds of FPS, why not settle for the human limitation of some 30-ish and make those other hundreds availible for the game-internals?

Jittery games? I don't think so, if the movement differences between the frames is calibrated...

Just a question I got after reading that preview. Got lots of questions, after all.

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David T
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 17:23 Edited at: 29th Aug 2003 17:24
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FPS can mean First Person Shooter also

[edit]

Maybe people just want their games to go as fast and smoth as possible? A jittery game will not sell as much as a slow game.

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 17:33
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Okay...

First of all, First-Person Shooters are the major type of game used to test the speed of computer systems. Unlike games such as RPGs or RTSs, they have very few variables effecting their speed, ususually using set types of levels, and often come with flyby and benchmark setups to help this testing.

Furthermore, the human eye can detect 'jitteriness' up to 60 frames per second on a computer monitor, although actuall 'slowness' isn't noticeable up until 30. Make a game in DBP where at the press of a key the frame rate knocks from 30 up to 60, and you'll see what I mean.

Furthermore, FPS' performance is very important for them, especially now. John Carmack has actually been using Doom III's massive system requirments as a way to boast-- while Half-Life 2 is claiming that it looks just as good, but runs better on older machines. The better a game runs on newer machines, the better it will run on old ones, the more popularity it gets, etc. It is also important for level designers who may want to make graphic-intensive levels.

In the end, FPS (frames per second) is very important for FPS (first person shooters).



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Ermes
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 17:58
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i think the smoothest game refresh must be 100 frame per seconds.

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 18:27
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Umm... sorry, the human eye-- the healthy human eye with 20/20 vision-- cannot detect any change in smoothness from 65 to 100 frames per second. Perhaps you mean something different?

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David T
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 18:33
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The human detects sdomething as animation > 18 frams per second.

However it is not smooth until ~60. That's why film doesn't have the smoothness of a modern game.

ps. Ignore my post above, I got confused with what you were trying to find out

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Arrow
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 18:49
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It's all a by-product of your brain. Speak to someone who was in a nearr death situation, like a near-miss car accident. They will (more often then not) tell you it seam like time slowed down. Oviously is couldn't (using stander phicics here), so how do you explain it, simple. In that moment a large amount of adrinalin is very quickly produced, which causes all systems of the body operate much faster than normal so that we can avoid cetrain death. The slowed time is caused due to the sudden speed increase, thus a whole lot more input is recorded, sight is part of this. The brain takes in so much imput in such a short amount of time that everything appears to go slower than it really is.

Now hows this relate to video games? Ever play a really adiralin pumping game (Ka-Boom for Atari comes to mind for this situation) were every second counts? In those type of situations where everything is going too fast, you are gonna want those extra FPS.


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MicroMan
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 18:54
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But still, that 60-100 FPS (Frames Per Second) is quite a bit lower than the boasts of game makers or game players about their machine.

There was another thread about DB Pro vs DB Classic speed in the DB Pro forum, and some people got up to 4-500 FPS. It might not say anything about games, but I've heard people claim those speeds on the 3-4 GHz machines they finance for themselves.

With DBP (I don't know about DBC) you can set the limitation for FPS (I only talk about Frames per Second here) to 100. Then you could use the overhead to calculate what to draw on the screen rather than burden the system with page-flipping...

Anyway, it's just a curious quest I think....

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David T
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 18:57
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I always set the sync rate to 0 and scale all other movement accordingly, for example if the game runs twice the recommended fps rate then all movement speed would be halved.

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 19:34
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The faster the frame rate, the better it runs, so of course it's something to boast about.

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the_winch
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 20:47 Edited at: 29th Aug 2003 20:49
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You will have a problem if the game is only able to update the screen 30 times a second. If any other running program does anything you are going to get a drop in frame rate and it will be noticable.

It isn't talking about us making a game but professionals, they can proberly make a noticable difference if they are given a bit more room to be creative with.

They are also trying to pitch the game to a bigger market as possible. They could cut of large segments of the market because their game won't run on computers below a certain speed.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 06:19
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well i don't give a damn about scientific evidence or any of that crap... human eye gets a constant stream the fps it can detect would therefor be in direct proportion to the brains ability to handle that data.

at 30fps a human's eye and brain wouldn't be able to react fact enough to fly a fighter jet ... so really on that point its pretty much moot and stuff like that should be left at the door.

And the only reason that film & television is put at 24/25/30 frames per second and it still seem realtime to our brains is because they dipict fram blurring which allows our brains to "fill in the blanks" as it were... not to mention the fact that at a constant rate of input no we can't tell the difference, there in lies the biggest difference between a computer game and an AudioVisual Stream - a Computer game has a very very superratic FPS rate, and the fact there is a difference is why we can notice it more.

I've seen computer games run just as seemlessly at 15fps as i have at 100-140fps, the difference being that really one a game gets past 60fps you have to be talented to actually notice the frames change or actually looking for it.

That again all said and done with...
Frames Per Second in a First Person Shooter are paramount, and this doesn't just control what you actually view ... but how the game flows in general, physics, animation, effects, etc - everything factors into the Frames/Sec.

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 1st Sep 2003 11:46
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I think the main reason is our brain. If a game runs along at 100fps we will notice if it drops to 60 becasue of the way our brain links each 'frame' together. Its not so much what we see but how we compute the data and understand it.

I have been in a cinema what they showed the same sequence twice, first at 24fps then at 120fps. You can tell the difference, some people even said they thought they were there. Although this was a demo from a large company, the difference between 30 and 100 fps in games is amazing and affects the gameplay more than some people would think.

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