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DarkBASIC Discussion / Dark Noobs Project 4: Mario Bros.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 04:59
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Project 4: Mario Brothers

Here is a wiki page and video of what we'll be recreating.

Game Features
* The field of play consists of six platforms on three levels and four sewer tubes; two tubes at the top release enemies, whom disappear upon entry of either tube at the bottom.
* Every platform is split into tiles that can be pushed up from below.
* Players can move horizontally and jump up to or bump up higher platforms.
* Things that move off-screen are placed on the opposite side.
* When an enemy is hit by an upward moving player or tile it is flipped over and becomes static and vulnerable - different enemies require a different number of bumps to flip over.
* Once on their backs, enemies can be kicked away to score points. Players kick enemies on contact.

[and there goes my text limit!]

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Libervurto
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 05:03 Edited at: 29th Oct 2009 05:06
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Game Features Cont'd
* If a player comes into contact with an upright enemy he loses a life.
* Coins also appear from the upper pipes and collecting them earns points.

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Caleb1994
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 05:25 Edited at: 29th Oct 2009 05:26
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I like this project! Kudos go to whoever came up with it! I will definetely be watching this one!

New Site! Check it out \/
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t10dimensional
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 06:12 Edited at: 29th Oct 2009 06:13
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I'm in.

@About the game

Will it need A.I. or is that just two people playing?

Razerx
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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 06:38
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Count me in as well!

@razerx
It will need an AI yes.


@Game
-Will we make a terrain editor or just hand code the map as it's quite simple?
-Will we be creating the media ourselves or use existing ones?
-Windows mode or fullscreen?
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Caleb1994
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 07:11
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If you don't mind, as i am working on my own project and busy with school i think i won't help with the coding part of this project, but would like to put some input in here and there if it's ok with all of you?

Ashinga:
-I don't think that this will need a terrain editor. all the terrains were always the same, just the background and type/number of enemies changed.

-I do not know about media

-I would say full screen. just my oppinion.

New Site! Check it out \/
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 19:32
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Ooh! This looks like it could be a lot of fun to participate in.

Quote: "* Coins also appear from the upper pipes and collecting them earns points."


I've been wondering how to do that. This could help me learn!

Also, will this be 2D or 3D?

"The fools may crash down upon us in thunderous waves, but we shall Jeku slap them back from whence they came"
-BiggAdd, Oct 28th 2009
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Dark Dragon
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2009 02:02
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heheh. Sounds cool.

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2009 03:29
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Well lets not waste anymore time and get started with this already. Obese seems a bit inactive at the moment so I'll act on until he responds.

Media:
I will search around for the images. Anyone else care to do so may go ahead as well.

Code:
I'm not sure how the original was made but a simple tile-based structure should work fine IMO.

If anyone have any experience in 2d tile-based games you can start to code an example of one, who ever gets the most usable one in 3 days from now, we'll just use that one. If you have no experience you are welcome to try as well, never know if your's gets picked. If nobody gets one going then I'll start one up 3 days from now.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2009 05:47 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2009 05:48
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I found another video that shows a bit more of the game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg2z8-FQDhs&feature=related

@Ashingda
If you can find the originals that would be great. We can just use placeholders in the mean-time.
Note to team: the sizes of placeholder sprites may differ from the final ones so be sure to take this into account when coding.

Ashingda has shown the spirit that is required by DarkNoobs; we are a hobbyist team so participation is going to fluctuate over time and depending on people's circumstances. When members become inactive we have to fill in the gaps for each other until they hopefully return. If you have to go away for a week and come back to find someone has taken your position, don't feel put out, it's not personal.
The nature of the team is another reason to keep your code tidy and easy to use; if you have to leave then someone else will be working with your code. If others can't work with your code it will be scrapped and you wont get in the credits.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2009 06:20 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2009 09:43
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I've split Ashingda's challenge into smaller tasks. I've given them a star rating as a rough difficulty guide.

Tube Emitters *
Write a program that emits three types of objects; these can simply be different coloured boxes.

State Changes *
Enemies on their backs are vulnerable for a period of time until they right themselves. When Mario is killed the player loses control of him and he bounces off the screen.
Write a timed state-change routine that doesn't interrupt the program.

Animation and Movement **
Mario appears to have five images: static (also used in walk sequence), walk (also used for falling), jump, impact, and death.
Write a short program that demonstrates these animations with the appropriate actions. Use placeholders and include an on-screen key if the animation isn't obvious.

Platforms ***
Watching the video again I see the platforms are a bit smarter than I first thought. They appear to "bend" as each pixel is pushed up independently. Demonstrate this effect.

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demons breath
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2009 13:10
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This was a minigame on some GBA Mario game I had as well. It's pretty good fun. I can't remember much about the levels. Turtles, then crabs, then like flies or bees or something? Then I can't remember what came next... Do you know all the level orders and suchlike? Because if you're trying to keep it close to the original, you might have to do a little research on the game in case some die-hard old-school fanatic comes across it and goes "hey surely this isn't right there are only 2 turtles, 3 crabs and a bee on level 197, there should be 3 of each" or something.

"The fools may crash down upon us in thunderous waves, but we shall Jeku slap them back from whence they came"
-BiggAdd Oct 28th 2009
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Phaelax
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2009 20:16
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Quote: "Will it need A.I. or is that just two people playing?"


Very very basic AI. It looks (from the video, cause I haven't played it in 20 years) the enemies just drop out then continue walking until they drop to the next platform, then I think they change direction sometimes. This shouldn't pose any trouble for you guys.

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t10dimensional
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2009 22:01
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Quote: "If anyone have any experience in 2d tile-based games you can start to code an example of one, who ever gets the most usable one in 3 days from now, we'll just use that one. If you have no experience you are welcome to try as well, never know if your's gets picked."


I don't completly know how but since this is a learning kind of thing could you set up the structure for how it would work.

Razerx
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Phaelax
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2009 22:32
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Here's a 2D pixel-scrolling tilemap someone may want to use if you're a little lost on where to start with the 2d map.

http://dbchallenge.com/darkbasic/mapscroller.doc

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2009 23:44
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@Team
I have gotten myself the original game and taking snapshots of it. Most the images will be ready by tomorrow.

Note that the tile size are 8x8 pixels and that's what we will be using. The characters on the other hand are originaly split up in 8x8 tiles as well but to simplify things the character tiles will be combined and used as a 16x24 pixels tile. Which is 2x3 of the 8x8 tiles.


@Phaelax
Wow thanks for the help there but it's written in DBPro with some things that are not available in DBC and it may or maynot cause confusion.


@razerx
A good starting point would be to display a 2D map. Use an array and give it 2 dimensions. Remember that coding is a language and learning to speak it is part of the reason why we are here. If you really get stumped then someone would most definitely show you how but it's good practice to figure it out yourself first. So go ahead and give your brain a good workout then ask more questions.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 04:25 Edited at: 30th Nov 2009 16:13
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Here's a simple 2D map stored and displayed, with quick and dirty jumping collision.

It relies on a 16x16 image tile.




> SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
> 0 rows returned
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t10dimensional
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 05:11 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2009 05:15
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Code below from Phaelax:



I already knew how to do this part of it. Its just collision and memblocks(If they are needed) with tiled maps that I need to work on.

Razerx
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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 05:24
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If we stick with a grid-based map then we shouldn't need memblocks.

Quote: "the platforms are a bit smarter than I first thought. They appear to "bend" as each pixel is pushed up independently."

Detect which block is hit and show an animation of that block doing the bend.

Memblocks would probably need to be used if you want exact, pixel-perfect collision spots per each brick. But I think a graphical animation is probably the best way to go.

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 15:13
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Yup Phaelax is right on both things. The platform bend is an animation and we will not be using memblocks on this project as it's not necessary.

Note that the screen resolution is 320x240.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 19:45
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I'd suggest using a higher resolution, but making the graphics larger to accommodate the increased screen size, thus giving the same appearance. The reason being, I know my monitor won't support 320x240.

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 20:08
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That's no problem. The game will be in windows mode.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 20:42
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I think we should scale the graphics as phaelax said. DBC is a bit of a pain with windows in that only the centre of the screen is displayed; we'd have to reposition everything to make it fit in the window.
Stating that we are using windowed mode without discussion isn't on Ashingda, I understand you want to get on with this project but we have to remain democratic.

I made a test program of the bumping platforms using generic boxes: it looks pretty good but needs a bit of re-writing. It was trickier than I thought. I think this is a better solution than using animations. If we used animations we'd have to make one for every tileset and since bumping affects tiles around the hit tile we'd need half-bump animations too.
If we slice up the platform we can move the slices independently and create a fluid motion with any platform image we like.

Who is in the team?
What are your views on these two subjects?
Has anyone had a go at my tasks yet?

"With game, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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Libervurto
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 20:56
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[sorry have to dp]
@Everyone
If you think we should do something (i.e. use windowed mode) please explain why so I can compare it to other ideas. Since we're on a forum it's pretty hard to have a back and forth debate about things so I'll just compare the ideas as you've put them and choose the best one. If you think you can add to someone else's idea go ahead.

"With game, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 21:45 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2009 22:10
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Sorry for my hasty reply, I've had bad experiences in the past with this method. There were 2 ways that I've tried.

1) Enlarge all the media. This can be alot of work on the media person depending if we use tilesets or individual images. Slows the fps down greatly and uses x4 as much resource.

2) Use sprites and scale it x2. This also slows the fps more as we'll end up using a sprite for every image.


I'm a framerates freak so anything that is too slow will get my blood boiling and I dont think straight. I forgot I've learned a few tricks that will keep the framerates fast even while using method 1.

I apologise for just shouting out the most simple method I can think of without much reguards to the teams thoughts.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 22:03
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Another way to do it would be to draw everything to an offscreen bitmap and enlarge the bitmap on copying to screen, which would probably be pretty fast.
I am also an FPS freak so if that inhibits speed we could just stick it in a window like you said. No hard feelings by the way

Did you find those original sprites?

@Yodaman, Razer and DD
Are you guys on the team?

"With game, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 22:12 Edited at: 4th Nov 2009 01:11
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Omg! That's brilliant, never would have thought of that. Learned something new YES!

Questions:
- Do we want to use sprites and mirror the images or use paste image and have the right and left images?

- Map editer or hand code? Whoever say hand code, prepare to do it yourself . Now we can always use a single picture background image but that defeats learning how to make a tile base game properly.

- Using tileset or individual images?

I have the media all cut out, but need to know these things to prepare it for use. Yes it's the original from the NES, emulators nowadays...

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t10dimensional
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 22:19 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2009 22:20
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1.Yep, I'm here. I've been working on my Galaga type game but I can put that to the side.

2.It does'nt matter to me if you window it or not.

3.I currently do not have a task.

Razerx
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 23:02 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2009 23:03
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@OBese:

I'd love to, but things are keeping from doing anything with DBC at the moment. School, trying to find a job, those sorts of things (and girlfriend-hunting Okay, not really...). I'm also trying to learn C# in my spare time, so that's another factor. So as much as I want to participate, I just can't. I'll see what I can do next time though!

"The fools may crash down upon us in thunderous waves, but we shall Jeku slap them back from whence they came"
-BiggAdd, Oct 28th 2009
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Libervurto
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 23:30
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I don't see this as very tile based, only the platforms are rigidly placed and we should be able to hard-code those positions fairly easily as there are only 7 platforms (or 4 if we use symmetry as phaelax pointed out).

@Razer
I put some tasks on the first page, pick one you can do.

"With game, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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t10dimensional
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 00:56 Edited at: 4th Nov 2009 00:59
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Quote: "* Once on their backs, enemies can be kicked away to score points. Players kick enemies on contact.

* If a player comes into contact with an upright enemy he loses a life."


Heres the code:



Are we useing sprites?

Razerx
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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 01:10 Edited at: 4th Nov 2009 01:12
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Quote: "Are we useing sprites?"

That's what I'd like to know too.


Quote: "I don't see this as very tile based"

From the looks of the medias I'd say it is. Anyways I've come upon something that needs attention. I'm familiar with the workings of a few old games and they all seem to keep all the media in a small 8x8 pixel image including this one.

With smaller pieces of a larger image they are able to make some creative effect. One of them is the crab monster. Here you can see the walking animation of the crab and how it's split up into tiles.



Now here's the funny part, during the game only one side of the pincer/eye tile is use at a time to create a flashing effect.



My question is, what do you guys wana do. At first I thought we just use the whole image all the tiles combine as one and keep it simple, but do we want to keep this effect? We could also have individual tiles of the crab with only one side of it's pincer/eye and increase the tile count. Or other ideas.

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 01:16 Edited at: 4th Nov 2009 01:17
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Here are the images for Mario and Luigi, you can play around with the character animation now . The tile size are 16x24.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 02:10
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Quote: "That's no problem. The game will be in windows mode."


I can think of a problem, 320x240 on a screen set at 1920x1200. Can you say microscopic!?

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 02:16
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Quote: "1920x1200"

That's your problem for having such a large monitor. Just kidding! Obese's bitmap scaling idea seems to work fine. I've tested it we loose about 30% fps rate, not bad.
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demons breath
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 03:41
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On a game like this, I would think a little FPS loss wouldn't be too much of an issue for a better-looking, easier to use game. It's hardly intensive, there's a fair bit going on but it's still probably more of a minigame style thing than a full game. Frame rates and suchlike might be a problem in some FPS/RPG style things with complicated physics and whatnot, but a 2D game with limited range like this shouldn't suffer too much from a slight FPS compromise.

I'll be keeping a close eye on this project though, it definitely sounds interesting.

"The fools may crash down upon us in thunderous waves, but we shall Jeku slap them back from whence they came"
-BiggAdd Oct 28th 2009
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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 03:48
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That's true about the fps issue but this is somewhat of a stepping stone for the more advance stuff, it's just benifitial to be more practical earlier on. Bad habbits are hard to get rid of if you know what I mean .
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Phaelax
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 07:36
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Anyone happen to know the frame rate of the original game? Cause I think if we hit 20fps we'd still be ahead.

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 15:01 Edited at: 4th Nov 2009 15:08
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Well times up, Phaelax has given us the most usable example code and we'll be using that one if everyone else agrees with it.


Im not sure about the actual fps, the emulator shows a 60 fps, I think 30 should be fine.


[edit]
DBC dont have global variables but do we want to substitute arrays as globals? I normaly use tons of it, it just makes functions much easier to use.
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 19:36
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Arrays would be a good idea to use for global variables. I've never really used arrays like that (or at all, except in C#), but it's a very good idea.

And 30fps should be fine, but maybe set it to 35-40? That way you have a little more flexible working space, though this project really shouldn't be too resource-consuming.


(Yeah, I know I said I can't participate, but I'm still keeping track of this thread and might jump in from time to time to ask questions.)

"The fools may crash down upon us in thunderous waves, but we shall Jeku slap them back from whence they came"
-BiggAdd, Oct 28th 2009
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Libervurto
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Posted: 5th Nov 2009 14:14
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Quote: "And 30fps should be fine, but maybe set it to 35-40? That way you have a little more flexible working space"

We should set the sync rate as low as we can get away with, that way it will be compatible on 99% of machines.

@Razer
Thanks for the code but it's a bit of a skeleton, it needs more detail to it. However it's a bit difficult to add detail at the moment because we don't know how monsters are going to be stored.

Could you have a go at the monster emitting code?
Remember each level has a specific number of monsters and they are released at different times. Also, if they reach the bottom tubes they are spat out of the top tubes again.

I'll try and get the platforms finished today.
Ashingda: could you have a go at the animation if you have the time.

"With game, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 5th Nov 2009 18:02
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Yeah I can work out a few of the animations.
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t10dimensional
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Posted: 5th Nov 2009 22:07 Edited at: 5th Nov 2009 22:08
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Quote: "We should set the sync rate as low as we can get away with, that way it will be compatible on 99% of machines."


Why don't we do a timed loop like:



So it runs the same on every machine except for the really slow ones.


Quote: "Could you have a go at the monster emitting code?"


Ya, I'll work on it.

Razerx
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Libervurto
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Posted: 6th Nov 2009 14:48
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Quote: "TDK: setting the Sync Rate doesn't equate to the same speed on all machines and you have to use timers."

Looks like you were right razer, we will need a timer.

How is progress? I'm on a break, will be working till 10pm so I can't get anything done tonight. The platforms are looking pretty good but there's still an annoying bug that puts them out of line and I can't find what's causing it.

"With games, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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Phaelax
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Posted: 6th Nov 2009 18:38
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If you can post what code you have so far I'll take a look

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 7th Nov 2009 05:53
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Well here's what I got so far. Use the directional arrow keys, Left/right to walk and Up to jump. I dont have gravity working as it's just the animation frames I'm working on.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 11th Nov 2009 16:04
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I've got the platforms working! They can work with two tile images as well. Thanks for offering to help phaelax but I have no easy way of uploading code at the moment (have to go to my dad's house).
The block height calculations started off at about 20 lines and now I have it down to 9 and it works much better.

@Ashingda
Sorry I didn't see your post I'll test it out.

@Razer
Have you got any monster emitting code yet?

"With games, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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Quirkyjim
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Posted: 15th Nov 2009 22:54
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Well, well, well. Looks like fun here! I was bored and I thought that I'd drop by. Sorry I just sorta dropped out on you guys. I'm not sure if I'll be staying, but it's nice to see you guys are all still here.

@Yodaman
C#-wise, have you just been using the core libraries? I've been working on something for the past couple months called the XNA Framework. Check it out - it's free!

http://creators.xna.com/

Btw, stinks that you guys couldn't finish the RPG. Maybe we'll see if we can get something like that accomplished in the future.

That's what they WANT you to think...
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Ashingda 27
16
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Joined: 15th Feb 2008
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Posted: 16th Nov 2009 00:18
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Yo Quirky, nice of you to drop by. I think I'll check that link out myself.


@Obese
Hows the codes comming, any luck posting it up?
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Libervurto
17
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Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 23rd Nov 2009 04:35
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sorry I've been really busy with work recently.
The platforms look great, I will try to get it uploaded soon.
Any updates?

"With games, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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