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FPSC Classic Product Chat / What must a good zombie game have?

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Violent Pigeon
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 15:20 Edited at: 14th Nov 2009 15:23
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Well, in relevance to the title. I have made several small zombie and horror based games but they all seem to be a very generic cookie cutter style basis. As are many of the zombie games out there. But please take the time to add a point or so and say. What must a good zombie game have? Please, Everyone feel free to argue for or against on any points...

My own Points:

* Its got to be Jumpy, but not all the time just at the least expected of times.
* Got to have a 'realistic' amount of gore, not piles of it and not slight spatter for decapitation.
* Modern Day/Futuristic I find having a game set in ww2 with zombies in horrible unrealistic as the time has passed and we know there wasn't any zombies.
* And of course, a realistic amount of weapons. (E.g not this: )

Feel free to argue for, against and add your own.

Svothe

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Marc Steene
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 15:32 Edited at: 14th Nov 2009 15:33
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Quote: "What must a good zombie game have?"


Zombies?

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Silvester
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 16:03
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I'd say it's also pretty important that you do NOT put the entire game full of zombies, No... Create the ILLUSION the player is surrounded. Add some spooky ambient sound, some creepy moans and scratches in the background and at occasion spawn a zombie behind the player or something similar to that. Don't go overboard with the zombie massacre, that's not scary at all.


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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 16:13 Edited at: 14th Nov 2009 16:16
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Quote: "I have made several small zombie and horror based games but they all seem to be a very generic cookie cutter style basis. As are many of the zombie games out there."


Well, when almost everyone on the forum uses the same media for their zombie games it's no wonder why they all start to look alike, and get that "cookie cutter" style. If you really want your game to stand out, stop using cookie cutters--make your own media and/or retextures, create your own scripts, etc. The more things you have in your game that aren't available to others to add into theirs is the less generic your game will be.


Quote: "Modern Day/Futuristic I find having a game set in ww2 with zombies in horrible unrealistic as the time has passed and we know there wasn't any zombies."


Realism shouldn't really be one of the main things that are judged in a game where the dead are ressurected as canibilistic predators and the main character is almost always, for some reason, the only person in an entire city that isn't dead But if it really bothers you, just work it into the story. The goverment or military could just have easily wiped a massive zombie outbreak out of the history books as they somehow always manage to create a biological weapon that turns the dead into zombies.

Quote: "we know there wasn't any zombies"


So far as we know there weren't any zombies. See, they're good, aren't they?


Kravenwolf

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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 16:41 Edited at: 14th Nov 2009 16:43
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Not meant to be sarcastic but:

Quote: " What must a good zombie game have?"

Answer: Something, that the 100dres of allready existing zombie games havent used to death yet.

PS: watch out for my game mixing WW2 and zombies

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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xplosys
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 17:01
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As far as I know, our version of zombies originated in the early 1900's in places such as Africa and Haiti, years before WWII where practitioners of Voodoo were said to have brought the dead to life. Some cases were investigated, but never to a conclusive end.

I don't know if people in those parts of the world would agree with your claim that there were no zombies. As Kravenwolf said, it's up to your story to make it believable. (suspension of disbelief)

Obviously, there needs to be some realism or familiarity in your game to immerse the player, but you're also dealing with a mythical creature. Therefore you must take the player out of his element or comfort zone to pull it off.

-Create strange surroundings and use unexpected elements.
-Add additional conflicts or threats, such as the player must also avoid traps while navigating the zombie landscape.
-Create diversions or tasks that divide the players attention and give you time and opportunity to sneak up on him.
-Keep the player off balance with randomness of attacks.
-Plus the normal things like light and dark areas, plenty of twist and turns, sound effects and music, etc.

Brian.

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Aaagreen
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 17:07
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Instead of doing yet another frickin' zombie game, think up of something original.

I'd say this is a good example of originality.

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Bigsnake
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 17:29
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ok, im not gunna comment on making a zombie game but im gunna say that stock room looks awesome

http://image.fps-files.com/images/56Watermod_Logo.bmp[/img]
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xplosys
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 17:36 Edited at: 14th Nov 2009 17:37
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Quote: "but im gunna say that stock room looks awesome"


Yeah, it looks like my brothers basement, except the center of the room is stacked with ammo crates.. He's a postal worker!

Brian.

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Plystire
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 17:52
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I find it funny when people talk about "realistic amount of gore" when it comes to things like decapitation. Have you actually decapitated someone to find out what a realistic amount is? How much research have you put into this?


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bond1
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 17:59
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Usually when people talk about making their games "more realistic" they usually mean "more hollywood", whether it be zombies, war, etc.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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xplosys
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 17:59
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Quote: "How much research have you put into this?"

Well, there was this cat. JK

And while were on that subject, it's a zombie. It's dead! How much blood can there be flowing through a dead guy's veins?

Brian.

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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 18:32
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Quote: "WW2 and zombies"

damn! I had that idea a long time ago! I thought of using that to some part of Zombified. Is it ok if I use it?


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Violent Pigeon
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 18:41 Edited at: 14th Nov 2009 18:43
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Working my way up the responses..

@metaldevil COD5 and many other games and mods use it also, he hardly has the rights to claim it as his own so obviously feel free.

@bond1 and @plystire I respect you as modeller hugely and love your work but again. No I dont mean 'hollywood' I've been serving in the british army for coming up 12 month's ive seen a bit of gore what's realistic and whats just stupid and to be completely honest yes I have seen a beheading not live obviously but I have seen the 'gore' it produces.

@bigsnake and xplosys ha ha thanks, yeah I made it for a previous game based on the assassination of various military leaders in army base. that was the armoury also had a range complex.

@Kravenwolf, Although true realism obviously cannot be achieved I would prefer to use Semi-Realistic scenario's or at least a somewhat plausible explanation for the zombies.

@silvester Indeed I completely agree will be adding this into my newest attempt.

Thanks for all the comments, keep it coming!

Svothe

New Points to discuss:

* Appropriate Weaponry: Planks, double barreled shotguns, pipes, knives, maybe a pistol in the US but otherwise you dont normally find many assault rifles, tactical entry shotgun's and submachine gun's lying around the streets.

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crispex
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 18:50
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Quote: "Instead of doing yet another frickin' zombie game, think up of something original.
"


I couldn't agree more. There are TOO many zombie games floating around. Zombie this, zombie that, why not strive for something a bit more original?

Temporarly away from the Phoenix Sentry.
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Violent Pigeon
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 18:53
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Because it is a struggle to get any high detail high quality model's if you want them not to be Zombies or Fantasy and I feel FPSC fails rather thoroughly at the Fantasy department as it is not yet fully optimized for outside environments to a level where I would make a fantasy game with it.

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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 19:05
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Quote: "There are TOO many zombie game"

What does TOO many zombie games mean? That is a completely new thing to me. Is that even possible?


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DestroyerHive
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 19:08
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Quote: "do NOT put the entire game full of zombies"

I beg to differ. What about Left 4 Dead? It's full of zombies and made HUGE success. In FPSC however, that amount of zombies isn't entirely possible.
Quote: "ww2 with zombies in horrible unrealistic"

Ever play Shellshock 2? Awsome game, Vietnamese war, loads of zombies, plausible storyline.
Quote: "another frickin' zombie game, think up of something original."

No. AI sucks for shooting enemies.
Quote: "I would make a fantasy game with it."

That reminds me... Zombies in the fantasy times make great sense, due to sorcery and what not. Check out Rolfy's zombies for example.
Quote: "realistic amount of gore"

Not in zombie games!!! Ever play DOOM 3? There's blood EVERYWHERE.


Imo, zombie games have to be unrealistic to be appealing. Not too unrealistic though.

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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 19:29
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Quote: "Quote: "WW2 and zombies"
damn! I had that idea a long time ago! I thought of using that to some part of Zombified. Is it ok if I use it?"

reading the whole thread would have made you look smart

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Violent Pigeon
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 19:38
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Quote: "Ever play Shellshock 2? Awsome game, Vietnamese war, loads of zombies, plausible storyline."

Its story is not exactly plausable. A soldier escorting the virus through vietnam catches it? Why would you take a zombie virus into vietnam? They weren't trying to use it against anyone just transport it through hostile territory seems hugely implausable considering the additional safety they could achieve by using fast-air jets or just flying around vietcong controlled territory. Anywho. its not about Shellshock..

Zombies in fantasy set worlds are more appropriate in some aspects yes although again their is only around two fantasy zombie models the rest are modern based and myself with some but no great knowledge of organic modeling and although larger but still not brilliant knowledge of texturing and UVMapping.

Quote: "
Not in zombie games!!! Ever play DOOM 3? There's blood EVERYWHERE."

By realistic at no point did I say less of it. The human body carries around 12 pints of blood. If someone were to bleed out almost fully or even just suffer an extreme injury to a artery or the heart and they would loose a lot of blood, and no doubt that the actual 'virus' or 'parasite' that the zombie virus is could cause some throwing up of blood or hemorrhaging which can explain large or little amounts of blood.

Thanks,
Svothe

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DestroyerHive
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Posted: 14th Nov 2009 22:32
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Quote: "Why would you take a zombie virus into vietnam?"

To get revenge on Chuck Norris... wait... isn't he in Texas...? CRAP!
Quote: "two fantasy zombie models"

Roly's Zombies are Faantasy based, if you're not citing them.
Quote: "The human body carries around 12 pints of blood."

I carry 13
Quote: "actual 'virus' or 'parasite' that the zombie virus is could cause some throwing up of blood or hemorrhaging "

Yeah, true... but for some reason most zombies have bullet holes in them, which would explain lots of blood loss. Also, I think the amount of blood is because the victims of the zombies were eaten (or turned into more of them) so they bled quite a bit.

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Coach Shogun 20
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Posted: 15th Nov 2009 01:11
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On the point of blood & gore, it really depends on the anatomy of your zombies. If the heart has stopped beating, blood won't spurt out of the zombies body, but it will pour out instead.

*reads what I just wrote* This discussion is becoming very morbid...


Anyways, think of something original and don't try to explain everything. You're story doesn't need to fill in all the gaps. The zombies could've rose for no reason what so ever. It's your game, you make it how you want.

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Plystire
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Posted: 15th Nov 2009 02:22
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Quote: "yes I have seen a beheading "


Darn, I thought I had you there. Oh well, it's not like you'd be able to achieve the real thing in a game anyway. (Having the head come off the way it does is unrealistic anyways)


So, um, yeah, about realistic amount of bleeding for a zombie, wouldn't it depend on how long they've been dead? (Yes, they had to have been dead, otherwise they wouldn't be the "living dead") Blood slowly solidifies in the body after death, doesn't it? And since there would be little blood pressure, their blood would barely even flow.

I may be old fashioned, but I always liked the dry, crispy zombies that create a dusty cloud of dead flesh/bone when blown up as opposed to the red blood cloud.


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Errant AI
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Posted: 15th Nov 2009 13:29
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Quote: " wouldn't it depend on how long they've been dead?"


I'd think it would also depend on if they bled out the first time they died. Realistic zombie might even explode when shot because of decomposition gasses trapped in parts of the body. There could be gore that comes out but it maybe it would be dark sludgy stuff and yellowish fat less so than red blood.

Love the pic in the OP. Looks like the rec. room in Tremors! Now if you could put the player in a room like that and still have the feeling of hopelessness you'd have done a good job!
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Violent Pigeon
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Posted: 15th Nov 2009 13:44
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Or rather than literal living dead hungering for nothing but human flesh they could just be infected but still living humans. which is the line I normally take with my games.

Thanks,
Svothe

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Ocho Geek
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Posted: 15th Nov 2009 14:07
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a zombie game must be dark of course, and you must be starved of ammo at all times. it must be relentless until the end of the level.

one problem is sometimes its TOO dark. even a slimy shader which glistens in the dark is a good indicator sometimes

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Ocho Geek
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Posted: 15th Nov 2009 14:09
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Oh yeah,

FPSC isnt sutable because to be exciting, they must move fast, so that even small numbers of enemies look huge. take a leaf from L4D running zombies and you get the idea

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Aaagreen
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Posted: 15th Nov 2009 14:48
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Quote: "No. AI sucks for shooting enemies."


Then improve it. It's perfectly possible, and there are some mods floating around which drastically improve AI.

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DestroyerHive
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Posted: 15th Nov 2009 15:24
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Quote: "Blood slowly solidifies in the body after death, doesn't it?"

Yeah, but no one's going to want to play a game without cool effects.

@Aagreen:
I know, but at the moment, I'm going to wait. I also like zombie games because of how unrealistic they are. I hate COD, except for Nazi Zombies. I let my brother play online and campaign.

http://www.uncaged.co.uk/pg.htm
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Violent Pigeon
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Posted: 15th Nov 2009 22:10
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Quote: "Yeah, but no one's going to want to play a game without cool effects."
Then why do games such as Mario have such a huge fanbase as well as almost all the Wii games.

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DestroyerHive
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Posted: 15th Nov 2009 23:54
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Quote: " I also like zombie games because of how unrealistic they are."



http://www.uncaged.co.uk/pg.htm
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Violent Pigeon
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Posted: 8th Jan 2010 00:01
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I know, this a massive Thread Necro. but rather than make a new topic, I will re-open my old one.

For all those interested, here is a new forum created by myself for the discussion of Zombie Apocalypse/Survival theory. All are welcome, please read the rules and thoughts section. (Click in any forum category its there.)
http://zombieworld.freeforums.org/
Much Thanks,
Svothe

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Posted: 8th Jan 2010 20:31
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Not too much ammo?

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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 8th Jan 2010 21:46
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I looked at this thread and many people just say they make things more realistic. I mean... I don't know how to put it english, but the subject itself is not very realistic. Dead people rising and eating people's flesh... And most importantly: BRAINS! Soooo... That's my 2 cents.

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Violent Pigeon
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Posted: 9th Jan 2010 19:58
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Yes I agree, although the whole point behind 'Apocalypse's is although everyone believes it wont happen it leaves that nagging thought in the back of your mind the whole 'What If' scenario and if everything is blown out of poportion and different then it takes away the 'fear' the actual scariness behind the apocalypse and just makes you think 'uhh' just another stupid kids story. or something similar.

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