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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Theory: FPSC/DBP emulation in XNA

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 6th Dec 2009 05:28 Edited at: 6th Jan 2011 10:01
Well, it's been burning me up for quite some time, and seeing a recently locked thread about the Xbox 360 without any real closure, I thought that I should post a theory that I've been having for a while:

Due to the firmware limitations on the 360, the way FPSC runs isn't compatible, even though the technical capabilities more than match up. I had been thinking about "console emulation" and how that works and it dawned on me... Why not create an XNA/C# program that tricks the 360 into reading the required (and included) files; exactly how I get SNES games to run on my PC... I'm mean... um...

It would be an interesting amount of work, to say the least (especially due to the major slowdown from trying to run basically two different machines), but I'm more than up for it. I would, however, like for anyone with knowledge on this subject (or would like to help) to comment/post and e-mail me if they would.

Also, this might get a lot of "can't happen"/"won't work" comments, but could those who are thinking about leaving them have solid information backing up those claims, please?

If I get enough support/help, I'm sure that this can go a long way. Hope to hear what you guys think!

Insane Arts
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Posted: 6th Dec 2009 08:12
the idea seems reasonable enough,
but what you have to take into consideration is the Xbox360s hardware limitations, i mean sure, the theory of "if you can emulate xbox on pc, then why not pc on xbox" sounds understandable...

But! the 360 doesn't have the RAM or Video memory to support such a transition, im with you all the way, and you can contact me by email if you need any help with porting.

i understand that games that run on PC run on xbox360 with a port in mind, But if you wanted to port FPSC games to Xbox360, they'd have to be re-coded to a certain extent.






But if you look into it, im sure you could figure something out..
but the real question is. Is it worth it?

AMD Phenom Quad core 9950BE @ 3.6ghz, 8GB OcZ Ram OC@1600MHZ, 1GB ASUS HD4890 FSB OC.
Wraith Staff
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Posted: 6th Dec 2009 08:36
A "port" would be imposable without heavy modification, maybe even with it... An emulator is what I'm talking about, and I'm fairly certain that FPSC would be more than possible to run... but we'd need to have a way to limit the processing power, similarly to how some of the console emulations work. Again, just a theory


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Bugsy
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Posted: 6th Dec 2009 08:57
I like this idea. mainstream console gamers will trust something to be good, even if it's indie, if it comes out on 360.

add me on skype- isaacpreston. WWC percentage complete: 60%
Insane Arts
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Posted: 6th Dec 2009 13:00
Quote: "A "port" would be imposable without heavy modification, maybe even with it... An emulator is what I'm talking about, and I'm fairly certain that FPSC would be more than possible to run... but we'd need to have a way to limit the processing power, similarly to how some of the console emulations work. Again, just a theory
"



I understand what you mean, but i think i miss explained, what im saying is, in order to emulate a game that can only be run on the PC platform, You'd have to emulate a PC environment, and im not sure weather the 360's Hardware could handle such an environment.

But as you said,
Just a theory


But look into it bro, as i said im here to help.

AMD Phenom Quad core 9950BE @ 3.6ghz, 8GB OcZ Ram OC@1600MHZ, 1GB ASUS HD4890 FSB OC.
ASTECH
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Posted: 8th Dec 2009 03:03 Edited at: 8th Dec 2009 03:03
I've seen some crap laptops and pc's run some good looking FPSC games.
I'm right here with you in saying that its possible.
People who say it isn't want to throw up the "heavy modifications"
idea on occasion. Nothing is impossible. If the 360 can handle MW2,
then why couldn't it support a FPSC that runs through a program that
would optimize it for 360 compatibility? I mean, it may take years to
make it work but nothing is just blank out of luck impossible for this.

-Indestructible-

Wraith Staff
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Posted: 8th Dec 2009 03:38
Quote: "If the 360 can handle MW2, then why couldn't it support a FPSC that runs through a program that would optimize it for 360 compatibility?"


Agreed... mostly

The main problem is that whenever an emulator is in use, it definitely takes a bigger tole on the hardware than running the program natively, of course that isn't even possible with the 360, as many have pointed out, without source modification, heavy or otherwise... It is possible, with emulation (as with any game/console), but the question is: how well will it run?


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Insane Arts
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Posted: 8th Dec 2009 06:24
Quote: "If the 360 can handle MW2,
then why couldn't it support a FPSC that runs through a program that
would optimize it for 360 compatibility?"



Because, The FPSC game isn't made for xbox, The MW2 version for the 360's Programming code is so much different too that of the PC version.


So please, understand before jumping to conclusions.


i mean your argument makes no sence, How can a PC which has more RAM, and a more powerfull CPU, Lag in games that the 360 doesn't.
because its a different platform, Thats why.

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 8th Dec 2009 09:20
@Insane Arts & ASTEK

Lets not get to heated about all of this. It's all just theoretical anyway. Have either of you seen the official specs of the 360? If not here they are (via the official site):

http://www.xbox.com/en-au/support/xbox360/manuals/xbox360specs.htm

and here's the "recommended" specs to run FPSC from TGC (the full thing, not the games, which usually take less space)

http://www.fpscreator.com/sysreq.html

It looks like it could handle it, but don't ask me, I'm just the programmer Though keep in mind that an emulator could slow things down a bit...

What do you guys think?


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ASTECH
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Posted: 8th Dec 2009 14:51 Edited at: 8th Dec 2009 22:18
Quote: "Because, The FPSC game isn't made for xbox, The MW2 version for the 360's Programming code is so much different too that of the PC version.

So please, understand before jumping to conclusions."


I do understand and I'm not jumping to conclusions.
You must have also misunderstood me.

Quote: "i mean your argument makes no sence, How can a PC which has more RAM, and a more powerfull CPU, Lag in games that the 360 doesn't."


Optimization. The boys at MS know how it works and also, the
game dev teams know how it works. You don't know so you would
just default to how you understand a computer to work.

The game would be running off a DVD, just like MW2.
MW2 is for both the pc and the 360. This tells us that optimizing
was done so that the game can run just as it would on the pc.
I'm just saying that someone needs to find out how they do
conversions and of course the game may need to be heavily modified.

BUT, I do agree that the way the FPSC games would be after built,
IS NOT SUITABLE for a quick toss onto the 360 or PS3.

Hence the emulation theories and conversions.
I think Wraith has a good starting point here.
But please, don't constrain yourself to thinking inside the box.

Games aren't built on the 360, they are built on the pc.
I'm sure they aren't playable on any at first.
They usually tone down the game and make it usable for a console.
It would take work but its not impossible.

EDIT: Also, if you look at the specs for both.
The Xbox360 has 512 MB memory. The EDITOR runs just fine on 512 MB.
The games also run very smoothly if the designer knows what hes doing.

-Indestructible-

Wraith Staff
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Posted: 8th Dec 2009 19:45
Quote: "The game would be running off a DVD, just like MW2."


Actually, I think the better way to do it would be through XNA Creators Club. You could include the emulator as the actual "game" and have the FPSC game as system files. It would then (if it passed community approval) be put on the indie section of the Arcade. It is much easier/cheaper than trying to get standard Microsoft approval or even attempting to sell a boxed product on the market, and the turnout is much better for someone without a corporate marketing budget Trust me: XNA's the best way to go for any indie developer (using FPSC or not)!


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ASTECH
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Posted: 8th Dec 2009 22:19
Wraith, that idea sounds brilliant.
That actually sounds the most logical.

-Indestructible-

Insane Arts
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Posted: 9th Dec 2009 09:39
Quote: "Actually, I think the better way to do it would be through XNA Creators Club. You could include the emulator as the actual "game" and have the FPSC game as system files. It would then (if it passed community approval) be put on the indie section of the Arcade. It is much easier/cheaper than trying to get standard Microsoft approval or even attempting to sell a boxed product on the market, and the turnout is much better for someone without a corporate marketing budget Trust me: XNA's the best way to go for any indie developer (using FPSC or not)!
"





You win
as ASTEK said, the idea is brilliant.

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 9th Dec 2009 10:11
Quote: "You win
as ASTEK said, the idea is brilliant."


It's not a contest... Like I said before, "it's just a theory" but thanks to all three of you for your vote(s) of confidence, I don't believe that "brilliant" would be the word for it, though... It's just the logical decision


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budokaiman
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Posted: 9th Dec 2009 15:18
I believe that I had posted this suggestion elsewhere on the forums a while back.

This signature is legen-wait for it... dary };]
Wraith Staff
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Posted: 9th Dec 2009 21:39
@budokaiman

Hmm... Guess I never saw that. How far did you manage to get? We might be able to use your help


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budokaiman
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Posted: 10th Dec 2009 00:11 Edited at: 10th Dec 2009 00:15
It wasn't long ago that I posted, so I never actually started it, but if you guys do decide to start this project, I'd gladly help If I could find the time to do it.

EDIT:
Just found the thread
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=162010&b=26

This signature is legen-wait for it... dary };]
Wraith Staff
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Posted: 11th Dec 2009 11:39
@budokaiman:

Yeah, I'm definitely interested in going forward with this project, but it'll take more than just me, I'm not the best programmer in the world ...

Quote: "Convert DBPro code into c#, using an emulator. It would take a while, but you'd make a lot of money selling it as a mod."


Just to clear up some things to anyone who may not already know, there should be absolutely no source modification needed. This won't become a "mod" if I still have anything to say about it.

The way emulators work involves no actual "conversion" per se...

An emulator is merely an application (or in our case a "game" ) that allows a program (typically a ROM, but not necessarily) to be run on a different machine (or OS) than intended when natively running the program isn't possible (IE: Vista's lack of "DOS" and using DOSbox to fix this )

If anyone would like to help, you can drop me a line here:



but if not... this could take a while

Also... again @budokaiman: It's pretty neat that we posted similar ideas about emulation on the same day. I guess great minds do think alike


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budokaiman
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Posted: 11th Dec 2009 20:28
Quote: "It's pretty neat that we posted similar ideas about emulation on the same day. I guess great minds do think alike"

Didn't realize that, wow, only four hours difference too.

This signature is legen-wait for it... dary };]
budokaiman
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Posted: 11th Dec 2009 20:39
I have done some more research on it, this has never really been attempted. By anyone, for any kind of PC game/application. The idea still seems plausible, but not as easy as it would seem. Mainly because of hardware limitations. Also some software limitations, but those could be overcome.

This signature is legen-wait for it... dary };]
Wraith Staff
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Posted: 8th Jan 2010 19:45
Um... sorry for the wait. My PC blue-screened and I'm using my pal's right now.

Anyway, I have a bit more data on the project, but I'm gonna need a week or two to get my unit back up. Keep posting ideas, though... I still think this project can do something big


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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 21:35
Well I'm back... any new ideas guys?


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