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3 Dimensional Chat / Clothes... part of the model...or separate objects?

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Dec 2009 17:57
Not sure whether to make clothes part of my model, or separate objects. what do you think is best?

Aaagreen
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Posted: 7th Dec 2009 18:13
Well if like the sims you want interchangeable clothes, then keep them as seperate meshes that snap on to the bones. If they only keep one set of clothes, keep it optimised in to the model.

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BenDstraw
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Posted: 9th Dec 2009 17:10
for games I think all one mesh would be preferable with uv's setup to suit

for rendered animation or still frame render separate is better.


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Maindric
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Posted: 10th Dec 2009 00:49
Best if for a game, make separate, for main chars, and make one mesh for extra.

Render, separate for all.

SJHooks
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Posted: 14th Dec 2009 03:50
Aaagreen, does that rule apply to things like addings a red dot sight to gun or something of the sort (the idea of animating several models such as that seem daunting). Just curious for future plans. Cheers.

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Azunaki
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Posted: 14th Dec 2009 05:49 Edited at: 14th Dec 2009 05:50
...how many people are going to say its snapping...

sjhooks that depends on weather there are other scopes you want to put on the gun. if your only going to have the red dot usable then no it wouldn't be needed but if you want several different scopes then yes.

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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 14th Dec 2009 06:00
Make one mesh, always make one mesh. ALWAYS MAKE ONE MESH.

Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 14th Dec 2009 06:05
sepret meshes = more pollies, but on the other hand, sepret meshes= more relistic looks.

Isocadia
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Posted: 14th Dec 2009 16:39
Well, I kinda like the way WoW solves it, alot is painted on the mesh itself, but shoulderpads are added, so it depends, I think a plain shirt could go with a normal map, while full plate armor should be seperate.

Isocadia
RUCCUS
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Posted: 14th Dec 2009 16:40
No, separate meshes dont mean more polygons . If you have two cubes, one smaller than the other, with the smaller one placed directly beside one of the faces of the larger cube, (bare with me now, this is a really dumbed down example), if you keep these as two meshes you have a total of 12 polygons (6 per cube). If you wanted to join the smaller cube to the bigger one as one mesh, you'd now have 14 polygons (as you'd need 4 polygons on the face of the cube you're attaching the smaller cube to). Take this example and scale it up to something realistic like a character or other polygon-hog, and you'll realize more polygons are needed for the combining of the mesh. They can also tend to screw up your edge loop flow.

With that said, Im not saying you should use multiple meshes. The reason they can be slower than a single mesh is because they are different limbs, and each limb has to hold it's own data. So multiple meshes mean more limb data than necessary.

Its finding an equal balance thats important. If you're making a big factory, and you want to attach a large mechanical wheel to the side of the building, the amount of polygons you're going to need to join the meshes outweighs the small amount of loading time required to get the extra limb data in. If, on the other hand, you're giving a weapon a bunch of notched out grooves on the side, its probably better to go ahead and model this detail in instead of throwing in 10 or 20 notch models in a straight line.



In terms of the clothing question, I've only rigged / animated clothing once, but from what I know / my experience in modelling in general, I would imagine it'd be easier to rig the clothing if it were a separate mesh, as you'll run into less conflicts where two joints touch like the shoulders. It'll also make your life easier down the line if you do ever want to remove the clothing or sub it out for a newer version without having to remodel 80% of your character again.
dark coder
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Posted: 14th Dec 2009 23:33
Generally speaking you want one mesh because less draw calls = faster render times, remember that you can merge multiple meshes into one. However, as DBP/GDK are rather poo at animating, using multiple meshes is ridiculously inefficient as it requires separate skeletons for every mesh. In a better engine you'd have a single skeleton and the other meshes would just be single subsets whose vertices you transform before rendering. Thus the only difference between one mesh and many would be the overhead from the state changes and draw calls.

Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 15th Dec 2009 00:06
as far as clothes go on a humin mesh, if its for game for fpsc, one mesh, definitly. if its for movie seaces, difrent meshed for difrent clothes for shure. like i am making a movie scean for my game in 3ds max, im using difrent clothing for the movie for the reason thaty seams stand out in clothing. it is way more pollys but if your pc is fast anoupg then the render out times will not matter. but just for fpsc, one mesh, if its for dark basic pro. one mesh for game play, and difrent meshes for movies.

Quik
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Posted: 15th Dec 2009 00:10
but this depends, right? i mean, if the character is to have a matrix sort of cape or such, wouldnt it be a LOT easier to have it a seperate mesh?


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 15th Dec 2009 07:03
yes, and animated to, but you can attach a cape just like a simple weopan to a hand.a couple things to think about here is a couple of objects on one skelition is no problem, but when you add 20 difrent pieces to one sceliton then you will have a huge slow down in frame rates.

Quik
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Posted: 15th Dec 2009 08:08
yeah, that is true=P


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
RUCCUS
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Posted: 15th Dec 2009 13:50
Im wondering where a few of these replies are getting their information from, or if they're just throwing out wild guesses .
B++
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Posted: 15th Dec 2009 14:29
MD3. Do something like that. it will also help to balance the polycount.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Dec 2009 18:33 Edited at: 15th Dec 2009 18:34
Well I am making a witch digging a hole with a long coat on. Her leg will need to pass through the coat onto the shovel, and the coat folds to the side. I wasn't sure what to do. I have so far made the witch with the coat as part of her body. I haven't tried the animation yet, but get the feeling that her coat may be stretched by her leg. But it might work.

lazerus
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Posted: 15th Dec 2009 19:22
Quote: "im wondering where a few of these replies are getting their information from, or if they're just throwing out wild guesses"


I think its slightly educated guess's.

Everything is you will ever make is realitve to its purpose
. I thought that was 101 for anyone in this field of work. Unless you give a exaple of how and when it will be used are advice wont cut it.

Like above, P.Paxton has said that he needs a cape to bend around the witch so a seperate mesh would be more applicable since the deformations would be easier to correct.
Why?
It would be easier to single out certain parts of the cape without picking up the main body verts. Subsurfing for scenes can be done without rebulding the rest of the mesh.

Singling out verts seems silly but when you start working in complex meshs like the mouth of the dragon iam working on, having the teeth and tounge seperate from the jaw helps alot in rigging.

I rambled a little but yeah any excuse not to work right?

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