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3 Dimensional Chat / [LOCKED] Sharpening Skills

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Van B
Moderator
17
Years of Service
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 28th Nov 2002 17:39
Erm, actually Vegeta I WAS involved in what happened with indi, nuff said. We all know the story about you being banned from RGT, nuff said. Neither me, nor Simple brought you and Indi's RGT story into this thread, nuff said.


Van-B
Shadow Robert
17
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 28th Nov 2002 21:26
This is going to be a VERY long post, probably longer than the forum will allow - but here goes.

I'm pretty sure no one except, indi, and GuyS know why indi left ... and perhap it might only be indi.
If you wish to know the ACTUAL reasons and story then ask him.

For myself i'm going the clear this up once and for all to stop everyone bickering why I was kick and who caused it because this seems to be causing GREAT confusing.

Firstly, those who have known me since i've join'd DarkBasic online - know that i'm not an easy person to get on with. However unless provoked i'm also pretty easi to coexist with. My personality is one of extreme stuborness, an ego the size of jupiter and temper that really isn't to be piss'd upon ever.
This along with the fact I'll tell you what I mean when I mean it and won't pussyfoot around anything, means i'm probably the biggest SOB your ever likely to meet.
Now I have been an active member of DB forums in one form or another for almost 3years now - basically since the start or as good as. I've never really caused trouble before, apart from a misunderstanding with Moondog almost 2years ago now. I might have seemed like I figured the 3D forums my domain, or "dillusioned 3d god" as Guy put it himself. However i've never stepped on the toes of the others who i've considered seasoned modellers, there has never really been a disagreement between any of us. Just because I was the most vocal out of everyone, doesn't mean I considered everything 3D was exactly set and ALL mine to roost over. Because it wasn't like that at all, I've had repect for SirManfred, indi, acturus, ipakagun and several others i forget the name of.
We all coexisted quite nicely, together and ALL helped out people showing off new work as well as each other.
Now what the misunderstanding with Moondog was kinda what began to annoi me about Simple at first too... And thats the AssKissers who do nothing but have thier lips planted firmly on that users ass like a leech!
What is annoying about it was Moondog was gaining so much attention that at the time was not justly deserved. He has been a great modeller for quite sometime, but as SirManfred has been producing work just like his recent peices since i've known him - to me it has seemed unfair that Moondog would actively recieve such attention for his oki work when Manfred who was impressing the hell outta me was getting minimal attention. Now I understand that it wasn't Moondogs fault entirely, however his attitude about it at the time was encouraging the behaviour of them ... after some flaming in the forums (actually mostly not from either of us lol) we talked on msn, and since the problem has disappeared. He is now a modeller that does deserve quite some accolade for his work, but after he was able to get the false praise undercontrol. He has actually worked hard on improving himself, and it shows alot now.
Now i've always given my opinions, and critique upon models - whether or not it is asked for. And perhaps it may seem a little harsh, perhaps even rude at times. This is just how I work. I expect the best from myself and will ripp it apart and improve it whilst developing, I don't expect EVERYONE else to be just as hard on themselves - but I don't think being told something straight is completely out of line.
I have never told ANYONE EVER that they're models are bad or even poor... If I can't say that its good, i won't say that it is anything - I will then list a few things that i PERSONALY would alter. it is advance, you can act on it or not. It certainly is never ment to be out of line or in spite - even if i like or dislike someone at the end of the day I am a professional and you'll get my full honest opinion and there is no room for personal emotion.
Anyone on MSN will tell you that, no matter if they're new or old!
I was dressed down by GuyS for this once due to a few complaints about my style of reviewing work, and I did try quite hard to post more positive constructive critique.
And was improving, atleast I thought so
Then SIMPLE comes alone, with his "i'm so talented" attitude and just acting like he's all that and a bag of chips. He also started to ammend himself his own little possie of AssKissers... which rather than discouraging he has just let it go to his head which i'm surprise will even fit though door nowadays.
And yes perhaps pot callin' kettle black but to be honest, I can atleast admit I have an ego ... but there's the keyword isn't there - "admit". If i didn't have an ego why would i turn everything said about myself?? lol i mean please might have a huge head but i'm not an idiot

What I find amusing is that Simple seems to have the idea in his head that HE got me kicked. Last time I checked you name wasn't Guy Savoie - I also doubt he would have give it a second thought. Me and Guy talked through email in rather angry moods with each other about my behaviour, what was happening in the forums AND howto deal with it.
It was me who suggested the ban, and it was me who PUSHED Guy into a corner giving him no other options due to my attitude! He gave me more than enough chances not to be, and it wasn't even a considered thought when we we talking at the start. He has stated this himself within this very Forum. The final decision was upto ALL the moderators of RGT and the vote was in one favour but NOT unanimous.
To ban was my own doing from start to finish, and the fuel for my anger which caused it was the escalating Simple situation that everyone else was too damn'd afriad to touch!
If I'd just shutup and taken a week away to cool my head I'd probably still be allowed in the forums now, and the bad blood between Guy and myself wouldn't have come to the level it is now!

As for Simple himself, you know you have talent ... and perhaps if you stopped thinking your gods gift to 3D then i'm not sure maybe you'd listen to what is said to you.
As it sits, I believe that although your work is good - this is mostly due to 2d work of the textures. Which are good enough to cover up your problem with modelling but I'd hardly call them outstanding. And before you get all "but you can't texture for crap" on me, I don't need to - I have probably the industries best skinner to work with and she can transform most work I do including mistakes, because yes when you have to create around 20models a day for a week you do make them which you'll neaten up IF you have time at the end... and boy, you don't even hold a candle to her.
If you don't believe me then check out the texture jobs within "Betty Badass" from Wildtangent. Where she worked with the guy who taught me most of what I know!

Your heart isn't into making 3D, the passion that comes from within a modeller ... just isn't there within your work. Either you don't enjoy creating them or your doing this all for the WRONG reasons, personally i don't care fore the reason. All I know is aside from the mistakes you dont' even try to compensate for mesh wise, they're simply sorted in the final texture - you can't seem to bring your work to life. Even the worst models can look good when the artist has a passion and flair for what they're doing. And better still if they have the talent to back it up!

That aside, you seem to want to show of your best work and seem to think I would do the same. I'm sorry to disappoint you but competing for opinions from teenage artist who can't really just the scale of work I must complete on a daily basis let alone compete with it, but I think shooting fish in a barrel would probably be harder. This isn't to discourage anyone - but if i was to show of something truely outstanding and compete with say SirManfred on a weekly basis I'd rather do it in a professional forum, because rather than getting the reply "oh thats awesome" ... i will be getting the opinion of my peers, who can also produce the same level of work and will literally tear it apart vertex by vertex.
Sorry but if how you get your kicks is by producing work for teenagers who are just starting out thinking that this is the big leauges and you can have a super ego because you're doing now at the age of i'm guessing 30+ what they will be able to produce with 4years of schooling. Then hey go ahead, but personally I prefer to have everyone thing that they are as good as me and if I can do this and make mistakes why can't they.
The fact that you went ahead and thought it would be clever to reiterate everything that was put down withing my own post I kinda find pathetic and extremely petty minded. This isn't being defensive or making excuses or any of your other blah blah bollocks, this is fact!
Your not even in the same league as half of the oldies here and they know it, your just a cocky little upstart - but in the name of peace they'll let you keep thinking your outstanding because they want to keep everything friendly. Personally I think your a self absorbed jackass who needs a reality check that you're not all you think you are... just goto and Half-Life or Quake Modification forum, or QuakeWorld forums - you'll immediatly notice how truely small your talents are!
I'm sorry that it has cometo this, but if you even think you're so damn'd good that you can feel big by trying berate my work which i've already done myself, and was explaining to certain members of this forum whilst I developed the model then - please do have your moment.
Once it passes please note the information below that i'd not normally tell anyone but I think perhaps to keep you in check you might want to know this;

I am 20years old just this past August.
I have worked within the industry at 2 seperate companies for almost the past 4 years on a professional level.
I interned where I learn ALOT about modelling from my current friend and teacher who is also my father's friend which is why I got to stay in Mesquite,Tx for a year just to learn this. I have published work within the very game they were working on at the time!
I have learn from early CAD to the current Maya/Max/Lightwave/trueSpace/softimage programs ...
I'm currently the Team Leader/Leader Artist of the ManDown team at Westwood Studio, Irvine.

Personally I hope what goes around does come around, because you acted with disgrace - for that i hope to see you disgraced

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Simple
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Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Nov 2002 22:28
This is going to be a VERY short post, probably shorter than the forum will allow - but here goes.

Yeah, right !!

Thanks for clearing that up about yourself ... those where my exact thoughts about you.

You saved me the effort of typing it all out, by doing it to yourself.

Thanks vegeta... I owe you onw

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 TV out - 30gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom - CDRW - Firewire - ATI TV card - All linked to another PC with higher spec
Van B
Moderator
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 28th Nov 2002 22:39
Well, I think belittling Simples work is a real low blow Vegeta. He does a lot for DB'ers and modellers, his tutorials are pretty much invaluable for anyone learning - I know I learn from them. Now I've never had a disagreement with you, you helped me alot and I appreciate that - but I think your taking Simples comments too seriously. You two have never gotten along, but I think you'd have to admit that it all stems from you disputing his work when he started modelling.

I think the reason why Manfred get's less attention than he rightly deserves is because he seldom posts, and his models are no good for games, showcase a great character model for less than 600 polygons and you get attention - those are the models people are interested in - stuff they could use. For the type of modelling Manfred does, he'd get a much better response from a non-game modelling forum. I personally check every render he posts, but I hate posting "That looks cool" replies and can never think of anything helpful to say, there's really no room for comment on his work.

At the end of the day, these forums are all about opinions, and everyone has the right to express them. It's upto the reader to decide what's important and learn from it if possible.


Van-B
Lampton Worm
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Joined: 4th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th Nov 2002 18:16
Hey, its Yago! Or at least, brother-of-Yago
actarus
17
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Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: 32 Light Years away
Posted: 29th Nov 2002 18:23
do you mean the character?

From what is it?DBZ?

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
Lampton Worm
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Joined: 4th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th Nov 2002 18:57
Sorry, I should have explained, its just that Raven's model looks very similar to Yago, the demo model from CharFX (available on turbosquid too I think), I'm NOT, I repeat NOT saying that is where its from its just similar thats all. I butchered Yago a few times in the past when I was getting to grips with meshes/skinning, it was a good exercise, he's cool.
actarus
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Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: 32 Light Years away
Posted: 29th Nov 2002 19:26
Ah! ok.

Did you learn anything that way?I know I wouldn't that"s why I basically never touched a mesh I didn't make myself...except for texturing requests or similiar but anyhow,it's the results you get that counts.

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
Shadow Robert
17
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 29th Nov 2002 20:19
Well firstly to answer Van here...
Whether a low blow or not, its exactly what i think. If he wants to act the way he does he needs to actually produce work that can truely back it up.
I know personally even with my many years within this medium I still have no right to post tutorials, as it will hinder later development of people.
But after a matter of a week he felt he was SO good that he could do something that professionals have been failing at for years. In my own opinion his tutorials have the same damn'd pitfalls!
His work is good, but hardly worthy of the accolade it gains from everyone - and my point stands that if he moved to somewhere which everyone was producing work like his, he'd probably start crying ... just like he never liked what I had to say.

My original point about his first model was that it did/does appear to be the Big Momma, just because it isn't the same mesh was beside.
I'd proven quite often to everyone with my Quake3 Remake mesh that you can create objects from scratch that looks almost identicle however the mesh be developed differently.

If anyone actually remembers that post he was the one who went of the deepend as I never said he stole it - I simply noted it looked extremely similar. He was the one to bring up the subject of such. If I was to be told my work resembled say Takiro Takashi then hell i'd be quite happy with myself, the fact he felt I though he stole it was kinda damaging to himself in the matter. Ya know what they say Guilty Consciounses.

(^_^) on the point of the model itself, it was based upon a turn around a friend quickly gave me ... and was almost literally the drawing in polygons, i never reworked the mesh before showing it, and never reworked whilst UV mapping. Problems were outlined for a reaon, just as there was for using a bright colour instead of standard grey (128,128,128). Not seen the Yago mesh,or atleast to my memory i haven't but the name and CharFX sound quite familiar so lol probably have at one time.

When i started on Mesh in trueSpace2 on the PC low-polygon was really a word you associated with other programs hehee,
so i started that by tinkering with others mesh from 3D-BBS when they released in COB format. Though its kinda where i've gained my love for developing machines, and using Booleans to produce results rather than Cutting tools.
Most peeps get a different path to developing artwork, oftenly one that best suits thier style ... but gotta admit theres no real learning until you try to recreate others mesh's - thats when you learn new tricks

I have something else to write... which i'll place within the general forum.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
AlecM
17
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Concord, MA
Posted: 29th Nov 2002 20:36
this thread is starting to get out of hand. im locking it.

Goto http://www.shellshockede.com

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