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3 Dimensional Chat / Anyone Had Any Success With Character Shop?

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TDK
Retired Moderator
22
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Joined: 19th Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 17th Dec 2009 15:32
I've just bought it myself and I'm having no end of problems importing my models - they just appear really tiny between the feet of the CShop skeleton.

This happens whether I save as .X file or .3DS files.

I get this even with the supplied ranger.3ds file if I save it with a different name, yet it loads with the correct dimensions when I load it back into my modeller.

Which leads me to think that the problem is the modeller I'm using - Truespace 6.

Has anyone ever got Truespace and CShop to work together?

Thanks...

TDK

Quik
16
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Joined: 3rd Jul 2008
Location: Equestria!
Posted: 17th Dec 2009 15:39
any chanse u have tries to scale them up and export again...?


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
TDK
Retired Moderator
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Joined: 19th Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 17th Dec 2009 18:31
The ranger .3ds file model which is supplied with CShop is 7 units high. When loaded into CShop it appears the same size as the skeleton.

When I save my own character in Truespace, it has to be something like 30000 units high to be anywhere close to the size of the CShop skeleton.

But even then it's located behind the skeleton and you cannot move or resize either the skeleton or an imported model.

TDK

lazerus
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Posted: 17th Dec 2009 19:57
Yeah this is why i steeered away from CShop. Milkshape has the same functionality and the skeletons are free to get ahold of from the models and media section.

i gave up on this a while back after it hadnt been updated in a while. I think the skeleton is outdated aswell compared to the free rigs floating about.

TDK
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Posted: 18th Dec 2009 01:16
So you had the same problem then? Can I ask if you were using Truespace exported models or another modelling program. I'd like to find out if this is purely a Truespace problem or it happens with other modelling software.

Maybe it only works with models exported from Max 3D?

TDK

lazerus
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Posted: 18th Dec 2009 15:13
No i was using AC3D at the time, and had to scale and repostion inside the 3d app, then through much trial and error alligned it up to the rig.

It was, painful at the least.

Latch
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Joined: 23rd Jul 2006
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Posted: 18th Dec 2009 22:51
@TDK
I noticed that the Dark Matter models I have from the disk I have DBC on have some problems with their matrices in relation to their animation keys, and the original mesh definitions. What I mean is, they are forced to work together - though the models's limbs are not necessarily placed correctly.

I'll try to explain what I mean: the meshes for each limb are contained in a group that is associated with a block we'll call a frame (like directx). Each limb has a transformation matrix that tells it's scale, rotation and position. Now, there are also a series of animation keys that have transformations that are applied to the transformation matrices of the model's limbs. We'll get back to those in a sec.

The vertices are laid out for each limb and combined to form the mesh - no mystery there. But, take an arm for example, the actual vertices of the arm, create it at -100,20,0 at a size of 1000 units, but the transformation matrix positions it at 0,0,0 and scales it down to 10 units. This goes on for all of the limbs with their own transformations.

Now back to the animation keys. These now send transformation information to be put through the matrices of the limbs. The catch here is, each limb may have a parent which puts it's transformation through it's parents transformation matrix also - and so on for however many parent child relationships there are. The animation keys have to compensate by reflecting a relative transformation.

In the end, you see the model as it was meant to be, but all the transformations have been forced to work together, and the actual vertices and shape of the model may not be the same as it's vertices and meshes describe after it has gone through all of those matrix transforms. And when you load a model into a modeling program, it may look at the first animation key (as frame one) and pose your model accordingly. Here's an animation key out of one of the Dark Matter models for frame one:



That is a scaling key and scales the model .10 or 10 percent of it's original size. So when I load this model, it automatically scales down because the program immediately reads frame one upon loading and poses the model accordingly. Now if this is a parent limb, then all of the children follow suit (it just so happens that this is THE main parent limb for the whole model in my example).

So, if I wanted a single non-transforming object I would load it in (to DBC for example), convert it to a mesh and output my own file with mesh data in DirectX format - use another program to do the same. Then I can do whatever I want with the mesh in another program (the UVs will still be intact so just reload the textures in the modeling program). That means re-rigging it for animations though.

Or, if it's your own model, make sure that you have set the original transformation matrix for each limb to the identity matrix. In Blender, if I built a model, rotated it, scaled it, etc. it's matrix would hold all of those transformations but the verts would be whereever I originally placed them. What I would do after positioning the model where it will ultimately be, would be to use a function to apply all scaling and rotations. This resets the vertices to the position the model is in and set all of the matrix transforms at 0 . This keeps the exports nice and clean and doesn't allow interpretation of the transformations (because technically, there are none). There may be a similar command in TrueSpace

Enjoy your day.

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