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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] Why can't anyone make good anims

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Tanner 3000
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 03:28 Edited at: 6th Jan 2010 03:32
Before you comment I think EAI is great but wtf check this guy out he is not pro but he comes out with great anims every week here is his sick deagle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmcpeIp-a9Q&feature=player_embedded. I know its CSS but thats no excuse I make custom anims and EAIs are too general and not crazy but they are realistic but nobody's really looking for that realistic also check more of his anims he is crazy. Before the mods become cowards an locks this thread if you do you can't take constructive criticism well.

Go to lostcontactgaming.com!!

Tanner 3000
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 03:34
Sorry replaced the link

Go to lostcontactgaming.com!!

Bugsy
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 04:03
well, people don't just make anims for free, but I'm sure that if you paid someone a hefty sum, they'd make anims that good.

also, I don't think locking a thread is "cowardly"



to fenix mod!
Thraxas
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 04:09
Quote: " Before the mods become cowards an locks this thread if you do you can't take constructive criticism well."


Why do people confuse the mods with the creators of FPSC and accompanying media? None of us made the animations so your 'constructive criticism' (and I use that term very loosely with regards to what you wrote above!) is not aimed at us!
Tanner 3000
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 04:12
his are free

Go to lostcontactgaming.com!!

Thraxas
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 04:13
Your point being?
bond1
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 04:15 Edited at: 6th Jan 2010 04:17
Dang those ARE good animations.


But, why don't you just hire the guy if you like his work, rather than complain here? What's that going to accomplish, other than insulting the artists here? It's not like we can all just be like, "Ok, we'll be more awesome from now on."

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
OutdoorGamer
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 04:19
Why can't you make good animations. Don't yell at us.
bond1
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 04:23
Quote: "Why can't you make good animations."



Yeah seriously dude. Why can't you make good animations Tanner? Cause I really need to know.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
Tanner 3000
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 04:31 Edited at: 6th Jan 2010 04:36
lol


Go to lostcontactgaming.com!!

bond1
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 04:37
All kidding aside, that guy IS very good. I just watched a lot of his Youtube videos - it looks like he does this A LOT and has become very good at it. Makes me want to do more weapon stuff.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 04:39
and what was so good about the said animations? Im lost here, there not that good. there ok, it just shows the same animation over and over and over agian. I see nothing speacial about it.

bond1
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 04:44 Edited at: 6th Jan 2010 04:44
For me, it didn't have the "floaty" or "too smooth" feel you see in weapon animations in a lot of games. Each movement looked disticnt, tight, and weighty.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 04:47
you said

For me, it didn't have the "floaty" or "too smooth" feel you see a lot in weapon animations in a lot of games. Each movement looked disticnt, tight, and weighty.

yea i see this myself, but the way he was talking his animations where pixar,lol. all i saw was a gun being reloaded over and over. show me something worth looking at then ill say , wow your right. but come on here and complain about the regular animations over his, well, I just dont get it is all.

sorry to rant

Fuzz
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 05:31
.......that was..the best weapon animation I think I've ever seen.

Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 05:52
you said

that was..the best weapon animation I think I've ever seen.


what?????

wow

realy, your kidding me right? Am I in the twilight zone here on this. Like i said its ok, Im not downing the guys work, but, the best. I dont think so.

Flatlander
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 06:03
What I noticed about it was the hands; especially the fingers. They seem to be very realistic. Reloading the weapon was good, i.e. the hand and the smoothness of the reload. As far as the animation of the pistol firing, I couldn't really see anything special.

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OliveTreeGames
bond1
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 06:12 Edited at: 6th Jan 2010 06:15
Quote: "As far as the animation of the pistol firing, I couldn't really see anything special."


And that's something that happens so quick, it's something you can't even really "see" in real life anyway. After pulling the trigger, gun kicking back - all that happens in what - 2 thousandths of a second?

The rest looked very good to me, he packed a lot of subtlety and secondary movement into a short time frame.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
Flatlander
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 06:27
Bond, will that kind of hand quality and animation be retained in FPSC? I would like to see an in-screen of it in FPSC.

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OliveTreeGames
Fuzz
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 07:29
Quote: "what?????

wow

realy, your kidding me right? Am I in the twilight zone here on this. Like i said its ok, Im not downing the guys work, but, the best. I dont think so."


I think the reload animation was truly amazing. Smooth and realistic.

Devastaor
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 10:34
Quote: "I think the reload animation was truly amazing. Smooth and realistic."

Meh, a bit off on the realism. It was awesome when the player expended all the rounds and reloaded. When he expended all the rounds, the slide stop came into function. He simply inserted the magazine and functioned the slide stop to release the slide. NOW... when he reloaded while the magazine still retained rounds, the slide was locked back. The only way that it would lock back with rounds still in the magazine, is if he were to pull the slide back and manually function the slide stop... which he didn't do. The correct animation for reloading which a non-empty magazine would be to take out the magazine, then insert a new one, and finally pull the slide back to load a cartridge into the chamber.
Silvester
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 10:47
That's quite brilliant I agree, however you should remember that MOST graphics designers here do this in their spare time and sure, even if he does that as well, there's always going to be someone better at it then the others.

Same goes for anything else though, we aren't comparing every fantasy book with Tolkien's work either are we? And we aren't cracking them down for not being like Tolkien either right? Well then why should we for this?

Quote: "realy, your kidding me right? Am I in the twilight zone here on this. Like i said its ok, Im not downing the guys work, but, the best. I dont think so."

Daniel, no offence but please get your own stuff not to look funky before calling this mediocre. I mean seriously..


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OutdoorGamer
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 13:09
let's just calm down folks lol
Kravenwolf
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 13:16 Edited at: 6th Jan 2010 13:17
Quote: "Daniel, no offence but please get your own stuff not to look funky before calling this mediocre. I mean seriously.."


How could he possibly take that as offensive?

@Tanner 3000, Why don't you fire up Fragmotion/Milkshape/3DSM and show us all how it's done?

Kravenwolf

Marc Steene
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 13:19
That was an amazing animation...something about the way the fingers moved really caught my eye.


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Silvester
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 13:42
Quote: "How could he possibly take that as offensive?"

I know, but his models always look awkwardly shiny and somehow.. well, unnatural? And yet calls these animations nothing special. I know I stink at graphics but I just felt like pointing that out.


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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 14:01
The animations in that video can be downloaded if you look at the video comments link. If you like them so much just decompile them and import into FPSC with .X format.

They are good but I'm sure EAI could pull that off if he could be bothered.
Van B
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 14:21
I think that's the product of someone deciding to spend a lot of time and make it as realistic as they possibly can.

Gun animation is easy, rigging hands is not. The gun is totally mechanical, a child could animate a good recoil animation. What is impressive is the consideration he's put into it - the slight lock of the fingers when reloading, the careful cupping of the hands. To animate at that level would take considerable care and time, so kudos to him.

I've no idea why it's even being discussed though, other than it being a nice example of someone who knows their stuff - why not invite the guy to make a model pack for FPSC and sell it through the store?. Maybe he'd like the chance to make some money and maybe treat himself. It's not like we're actually living in this cruel TGC regime some people imagine for themselves...
If you can make media then you probably are making media. If you don't want to make media because it won't be as good as some peoples, then tough - sucks to be you.
If you want to learn how to make media, then get stuck in and you might get as good as this guy - even if you don't, it's always worth expanding on media skills any way you can. Bottom line is that TGC would accept that quality of FPSC compatible work into the store with open arms, and you know it.

Anyhoo, that was a reply about the cool weapon modeling and animation skills that were shown, not the ill-conceived attitude Tanner started this thread with. Frankly we can do without that on any part of the forum - in what way does it help anything, other than your own martyrdom, not that I want a response to that.


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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 15:48 Edited at: 6th Jan 2010 15:48
I'd like to see your animations. Why isn't there good animations? And people say there's no bad questions...

Errant AI
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 18:44 Edited at: 6th Jan 2010 18:46
The magazine insertion was really superb in that vid. The rest was sort of so-so/different-strokes-for-different-folks... Mag release motion looked incorrect though for push-button release (the motion looked like a USP-style lever-type release). I could nitpick more but rocks and glass houses blah blah blah.

One thing to keep in mind that in the CSS environment, an artist need NOT be multi-skilled. You can have totally different people doing anims, models, skins, etc. It's the way that community is set up and the engine alows for that. In FPSC, we have to be jack-of-all-trades and that always comes at a cost.

There are hundreds of FPSC users but it can probably be counted on one hand the number of artists which can:

-model
-UV
-texture
-rig (real rigging- not model hacking)
-animate
-make the vweap, pickups and other boring crap
-edit sounds
-script/configure things

...and have the end result look decent enough to use in a game someone might try to sell to someone besides their nana.

Obviously is someone only focuses on only one aspect of the process, they're going to be damn good at it eventually.

Most of the above processes I seriously do not enjoy and it's the reason many of my weapons are never released.
Bigsnake
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 19:52
I think your anims are awesome errant, best for fpsc but they are kinda slow I might change the speed of them in fragmotion

http://image.fps-files.com/images/42SIG.jpg[/img]
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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 20:01
Daniel, no offence but please get your own stuff not to look funky before calling this mediocre. I mean seriously..

What, whatever, your realy blind are you not, so bonds stuff is not all shiny? if this is the only complaint about my stuff then I guess im ok with it. bonds last 2 packs where based on nothing else but how to make things shiney. no one complained there.

as for this guys animations I never said it was bad,lol. all i said was it was not the best.

Bigsnake
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 20:08
Quote: " so bonds stuff is not all shiny?"


unless you add shader

http://image.fps-files.com/images/42SIG.jpg[/img]
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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 20:11
thats not my point, his stuff was reflected on only shaders working on them. no one cared, acully this was his selling point and people grabed it. good for him, I like his stuff, he is a great artist.

Silvester
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 21:01
Quote: "What, whatever, your realy blind are you not, so bonds stuff is not all shiny? if this is the only complaint about my stuff then I guess im ok with it. bonds last 2 packs where based on nothing else but how to make things shiney. no one complained there."

Not as shiny as yours, nor as deformed.. But that's not the point of this topic here.


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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 21:13
@Silvester

well, sorry you dont like my work.

mAcpo
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Posted: 7th Jan 2010 03:42 Edited at: 7th Jan 2010 03:59
Silvester, Daniel Wright is a great forum member that contributes a lot back to the community. If you don't like his work you don't have to read his threads or purchase his stuff. Simple as that. Seems like he has plenty of happy customers anyway. I would like to point out also that he posted nothing in this thread but his opinion and that hardly warranted the personal jabs you have taken at his work for everyone else to see.

Roger Wilco
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Posted: 7th Jan 2010 12:40
Quote: "bonds last 2 packs where based on nothing else but how to make things shiney. no one complained there."


I will have to disagree, while I sort of do see your point in that shader-affected assets tend to be 'shiny' (if they use specular reflection), if you take a while to study all things around you, you'll notice that almost all objects have a specular shine to them. There are only very few things/materials in real life that wouldn't require a specular term in games, like cotton towels or tree bark. Shinyness is just one of those things we take for granted, so we don't really notice how shiny things are until we observe things more closely.
A r e n a s
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Posted: 7th Jan 2010 14:08
I as surprised that this thread is still open. The irrational attacks on the community’s model animations are not called for. Before you have a go at putting down our work, let’s see some of your own? I will be very doubtful if the modelling is as good as that from bond1, or the price is as good as that from kravenwolf and Conjured or even if the animations are half as good as that by EAI.

I’m sorry if it feels like im having a dig at you but i guess i am. You cant be a hypocrite all of your life as it just wont work! And your manner isn’t that brill anyway;

[Quote]Before the mods become cowards an locks this thread if you do you can't take constructive criticism well.[/quote]


I would strongly advise you not to insult these mods as they have a hard job keeping the entire forum in check and what’s more is that the TGC can take constructive criticism. I have no idea where your basing half or your accusations.

I will listen to your reply and take in what you have to say right after you post some of your own work. After that you can criticize all you want. I have personally tried just with rigging in fragmotion, and i gave up shortly after. I am going to stick to coding alone. I suggest you find your field of expertise and thrive in it. Until then, please don’t talk to this community, the moods or the TGC like that.

Marc Steene
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Posted: 7th Jan 2010 14:15
Quote: "I have personally tried just with rigging in fragmotion"


I too have tried rigging, except in Milkshape and with a character. I just don't have the patience or an eye for detail, so I have a lot of respect for people like bond1 who have dedicated their time to learn a skill, learn it well, and produce cheap and high quality media for us to use.


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Van B
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Posted: 7th Jan 2010 16:14
I bought Fragmotion in the hope that it would let me do a better job than with CharacterFX, but I was wrong.

Really guys, if you want WYSIWYG bone animation in DBPro, CharacterFX is free, and is so easy to use that my first real attempt at a character made it to a finished game - from nought to bone animated characters in about 2 days. It's not the rocket surgery it appears to be if you find the right software.

Never stop just because the software doesn't flow well with you - there are alternatives. I tried probably hundreds of different pieces of software before I found the set that works with my workflow. I mean, I went from 3DS Max animation to CharacterFX because I just couldn't get results with the animation system for bones - limbs is just fine, but bones is just horrible IMO without real practice or training or medication. My point is that you load up CFX and import a model, drop on the bones in a logical sequence and assign the vertexes to those bones - balancing and checking the vertex weights to ensure nice movement. Then animation is just keyframes like a lot of people will be used to already. The interface is quite dynamic but standard, you can arrange the viewports however you like, and the main functions of the program are all together.

That's the thing with media, and this might be considered a rant by now but it's the truth - bloated software is no good for learning on, and until you learn the core aspects, there's just no progress. Once you understand the principles you can go onto learning more complex things, but in DBPro and FPSC it's a lot simpler than those bloated applications will have you believe. Compare Fragmotion to CharacterFX:

Fragmotion:
http://www.arteria3d.com/pictures/3355/1/1221491-1.jpg

Look at all that stuff, how much of that is being used at one time! - pity help anyone trying to learn that program from scratch.

Now look at CharacterFX:
http://learngamedesign.com/gdt_E1.html

That's quite a popular tutorial, so I posted a link to it instead of a screenshot - but as you can see the GUI is very bare, because it only concerns itself with what you actually need. A bone animated model in DBPro supports bone rotation and offsetting, and these bones have vertices assigned to them at varying strengths - then when the bones are animated the vertices are adjusted to suit. That's it. You don't need any more than a bit of care when rigging and a keyframe editor. CharacterFX is far less complex than other systems, yet ironically it's actually closer to the real data and real results you can actually achieve. Can it make animations like the one in that video? - well the answer is of course it can, but can you!.

The bottom line is that the finished media has limitations, and the cheap and free software out there surfs along these limitations, letting you push them as far as they can go within the defined limitations of DBPro.


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