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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Question about the compo...

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Zeal
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Posted: 7th Sep 2003 11:43
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May have been asked before, but here goes. What exactly do they mean by...

13. By entering you grant exclusive automatic rights to The Game Creators and Alienware to use your game in whatever promotional manner they see fit, on whatever media they wish (print, digital, audio, televisual, etc).
14. You will retain full copyright over the game and any media you create exclusively for it.

So if we submit a full version game they can "promote" it all they want? Does that mean they can distribute it to others too? Or just show screens, info, ect...? I ask because it might mean the difference between submitting a full version, or just a shareware demo.

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Critters
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Posted: 7th Sep 2003 11:57
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yea, all that hard work and they stick their name all over it

I too want to know the answer to this question

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Sep 2003 13:34
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this is pretty simple to understand...
basically simply by submitting an entry they're allowed to take your game an use it in thier own Advertisment campaigns in anyway they see fit.

This does NOT give them the rights to redistribute the title, but rather the rights to show off your game to make themselves look good.
So if someone made like the next Unreal2 (not likely but this is just an example) ... then TGC could mock up a Television advert showing a few action sequences, have some deep throated voice come over ...
"a game development language"
few more action scenes
"for the next generation of programmers"
few more scenes
"DarkBASIC Professional"
then it cuts to like a shot of the box and list where its available to buy...

ya know or just use screenshots for like magazine adverts, or online rolling demo's of your game just to show off in realtime what dbpro is capable of or what an alienware machine is capable of.

your more likely to have your game picked for this if it is visually amazing rather than the one that wins the competition, because that stipulaiton of the competition is all about the sponsors images rather than part of the winning deal.

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Shock
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Posted: 7th Sep 2003 15:15
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lol, dbp tv advert.

how much are tv adverts anyway? does it depend what program you put your advert in the middle of?


Sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Sep 2003 20:13
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tv ads range in price depending on time of day, show ratings etc...
not sure how much it cases but i believe the last time i heard prices for TV stuff it can cost 10's of thousands for a primetime slot inbetween something like Friends or Will&Grace - one of those inane shows.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 8th Sep 2003 11:33
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It means we can show screen shots of your game in magazines, use it for box artwork, show it on web sites, CD covers, etc etc - that sort of thing. It also means we can give away the game you submitted i.e. on magazine CDs, free for download, etc. Pretty straight forward really, but at all times you own the copyright on the code and media you created. If you object to this, please don't enter.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we have short-circuited the Universe!"
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Ermes
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Posted: 8th Sep 2003 14:21
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i would like to show pics of my games everywhere!!!!!!!!
So Rich you can use pics of my game to make new and trendy "DBPRO toilet paper" with several shots of my games!!!!
It would be incredible to see a pic of my games on a software artwork-box, cd cover, ecc...
I like this rule!!! i will ensure to have all copyright this time.

Free Download for a Free World
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Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 8th Sep 2003 15:46
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look by entering the competition your bascis entering your program as shareware. TGC and can give it out and ues imgens from it but thay can`t alter it or sell it with out your asking you.

if you think you stufs so good then ppl need to pay for it do`t enter.

--Dr 0--
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Zeal
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Posted: 8th Sep 2003 20:54
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Eeeeeeeeeek.!.

"It also means we can give away the game you submitted i.e. on magazine CDs, free for download, etc."

So if I submit a game that I later plan to sell, youre gonna just give it away to people for free? So can we instead just submit a demo? Will we be knocked for submitting a demo rather than a full version? Of course this is assuming its a quality demo (basically the full version minus some levels).

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 8th Sep 2003 21:39
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For the last time... what you SUBMIT can and will be given away for free. I don't care what you do with it afterwards, what you add to it, where you sell it, etc. We will judge each entry on what is sent to us. Nothing else.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we have short-circuited the Universe!"
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Zeal
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Posted: 8th Sep 2003 22:02
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Hmmm.... Thats going to make people think twice before submitting anything. You really should update the rules/info page, "14. You will retain full copyright over the game and any media you create exclusively for it.
" makes no sense if you reserve the right to promote AND distribute our software. I mean, what rights does that leave us with?

I think I see a good solution to this though. How about allowing people to submit a full version for you to review, as well as a demo version for you to distribute/promote? Either way the rules page should be updated.

All you need is zeal
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Ian T
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Posted: 8th Sep 2003 22:31
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No, that won't. Anyone who knows the extreme basics about competitions know that they shouldn't sumbit the full version of something they plan to sell-- that's just ridiculous...

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Zeal
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Posted: 8th Sep 2003 22:53
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But the rules come off sounding like youll reserve all copyrights. Thats just not true. Even Raven got it wrong.

I also dont see why its so "ridiculous" to submit a professional quality game. This is supposed to be a competition, not just a "hey ma look what I dun made".

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the_winch
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Posted: 8th Sep 2003 23:12
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In what way do you not retain copyright?
Just because you give permission for it to be used for whatever reason by whoever doesn't mean you lose copyright.

It is obviously stupid to enter a game you intend to sell as it will be given away freely.
No one said it would be rediculous to submit a professional quality game. Hopefully you would neeed to enter a good game to stand a chance of winning.

You never get nothing for something and it's asking a bit much for them to invest a fair bit of time and money for a competion they gain nothing out of.
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Zeal
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 00:09
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In what way DO you retain copyright? Short of saying "I made this", they can do just about anything else they want without your consent.

Lets say somebody makes a nice little marketable game like 3d Mahjong. To submit such a game means the developer passes up any opportunity to EVER sell their game in the future (whos going to buy it when its been distributed for free). And all the developer would get in return is the CHANCE to win a prize. Doesnt seem fair to me.

Like I said, I dont think this should be a big deal if theyll just allow demo versions for the distribution element. The problem is, I have a feeling theyll knock a game for being a demo, rather than full version. Thats why I suggested we be allowed to submit a full version for judging, and a demo version for distributing.

All you need is zeal
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MikeS
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 01:07
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As long as I get the computer(assuming I win of course ), they can give my game away for free. As long as everyone knows, I made the game,and I won the compo.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 01:34 Edited at: 9th Sep 2003 01:35
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Zeal:LIVE WITH IT un-less you have put a dam lot of money and time in to your game do`t even think about being able to sell it .

it just has to be shareware LIVE WITH IT

ps. you can`t sell the game becos the ailen and the ailen wave logo are copyright to some one eles

--Dr 0--
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randi
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 01:49
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HMMM... If I was you I wouldn't enter the competition.
(looks around and see if anyone gets it)

But seriously I have question.
What about the 4th - 10th place prizes?
They are all DBpro.
What if you already have it?
Can you get something else?

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Mattman
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 01:56
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I don't have pro

Got a knack for finding secrets??? Jingot Racing --- A new brand of Racing --- Only from Nightwatch Studios
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Plystire
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 01:57
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Randi: I got what you said very clever. Get the competition out of the way and then move in for the kill lol
Also, I think the prize stays the same. I am entering and I already have DBP (even though i had to get the trial since I lost my DBP CD ). You could just sell it on eBay or something, get your moeys worth out of it

@Rich So if we supply a demo version (i.e. not all of the levels are available) will you not degrade our intentions on trying to keep our game for ourselves? I mean we put our heart and souls into what we make! Naturally, we can't sell them (because of the alien model that isn't ours) but it would be nice to say "Hey you have to ask me for the full version!" lol

~PlystirE~
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 01:57
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I think with the last compo you could ask for any other piece of software made my TGC.

Brains are for idiots.

Athelon XP 1400 Plus - Nvidia Geforce MX400 - 256mb RAM
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 02:02
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Quote: "In what way DO you retain copyright? Short of saying "I made this""


Considering that's exactly what copyright is, what more do you want? We will give away for free whatever you send us for submission. If you don't like this, don't send us a final game and hope the "demo" version is good enough on its own.

"Gentlemen, we have short-circuited the Universe!"
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Plystire
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 02:06
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woohoo! demo's are good enough!

and by 'hope the "demo" version is good enough on its own.' you aren't trying to hint us towards anything are you?

~PlystirE~
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Zeal
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 02:13
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Not to sound like a prick Rich, but dictionry.com defines copyright as...

"The legal right granted to an author, composer, playwright, publisher, or distributor to exclusive publication, production, sale, or distribution of a literary, musical, dramatic, or artistic work"

Key words publication and distribution. So like I said, you are reserving the vast majority of 'copyright' for your own discretion.

But I am glad to hear you are willing to consider demos. Its not like I WANT to submit a demo for judging. Will you accept a full version, with a demo version to be used in your promotion? I think that would make everyone happy.

All you need is zeal
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Gu re gu
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 02:14 Edited at: 9th Sep 2003 02:19
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I doubt it Plystire ... I can't really see why they would just a demo.
I'm sure Rich is sick and tired of answering questions like this ... So how about we don't ask them.

The answer is simple enough ... don't submit something you don't want given out for free. I can see why everyone's having so many problems with this.

Edit - Hmm maybe you have a point Zeal ... about the demo idea.
I don't know ... I'm just going to submit what I submit and leave it.

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Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 02:30 Edited at: 9th Sep 2003 02:30
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Quote: "Not to sound like a prick"


but you do.

look YOU CAN`T SELL THE GAME EVEN IF YOU JUST ENTER A DEMO AND GET PPL TO PAY FOR THE FULL ONE!!!! yes the can ues the code from your game and make a new game that you sell but that not the same.

--Dr 0--
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Zeal
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 02:38
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"YOU CAN`T SELL THE GAME EVEN IF YOU JUST ENTER A DEMO AND GET PPL TO PAY FOR THE FULL ONE!!!!"

Wrong again Dr O. Sure I can. But because TGC/Alienware reserve the right to distribute my game for free, it would be hard to get anyone to actually pay for it. Unless of course they only distributed the demo, my whole point.

Im not trying to be a thorn in Richs side, but I am glad I started this thread. Up until now I think most people assumed "promotional manner" meant screens, plugs, demos, ect... not full version handouts. I understand that may sound selfish, but you have to realize some people (not necessarily me) will be putting a LOT of work into their games.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 02:45 Edited at: 9th Sep 2003 02:48
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Quote: "Will you accept a full version, with a demo version to be used in your promotion"


Absolutely not. What you send us is what you send us. I don't care if you've produced a massively stonking 200 level game, if you only send us a 1 level demo then that is all we will judge because that is all you have allowed us to show people.

As for the copyright definition it's trying to kill a thousand birds with one stone in that summary. You own the game you send us, but BY sending it to us you give us permission to distribute that version of the game* as we wish. You forfeit that part of your copyright. The rest (the important stuff) still applies.

No more questions on this. It's absolutely crystal clear.

Cheers,

Rich
* Read this part until you appreciate what it means fully. In the last compo the game GoJoe PoGo was submitted, it was great, it won a prize and the authors then added new stuff, new levels and sold it commercially. There is nothing stopping you doing the same.

"Gentlemen, we have short-circuited the Universe!"
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Plystire
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 03:00
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@Zeal Of course we will be putting a LOT of work into it! We want a free computer don't we?? I'm not sure any of us here have done so but how often does a HA game get you a computer worth over $1500? Not often, I'll tell you that.

~PlystirE~
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Zeal
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No no you got me all wrong. Youre welcome to show people every bit of the full version, id just rather you not give it to them. I cant for the life of me see why it would be such a big deal to just distribute shareware rather than fullware.

But if there are no more questions, I guess the moral of the story is absolutely crystal clear. If you care to retain any copyrights, submit a demo, but dont call it a demo. Unfortunate but whatever...

All you need is zeal
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Ian T
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 04:48
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Excuse me, but who in the world would be content knowing they'd been bested by a game they could only get screenshots of?

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Preston C
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Hmm...This thread got me thinking...

I'll make my project.
Send you the current version, which might only be a fifth of the full version, but still good enough to be called good.
Add on a ton of stuff after the compo.
Attempt to get it to sell commercially.

That should answer everyone's question about what you should do. And maybe in the full version, I'll have my own alien model, and no alien ware logo. I can do that, its my game so there would be no copyright violations to worry about!


I've been outcasted from the public's society.
Why must I be outcasted here too.
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Angeleyes
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Lets say somebody makes a nice little marketable game like 3d Mahjong. To submit such a game means the developer passes up any opportunity to EVER sell their game in the future (whos going to buy it when its been distributed for free). And all the developer would get in return is the CHANCE to win a prize. Doesnt seem fair to me.

Well…I agree with everyone else on this, BUT you do make one interesting point. And that is what if you don’t win?
The “Chance� is that you may win and if so then they get to distribute/give away/advertise etc etc your game… But if you DON’T win then you fall outside of that condition as far as I can see by the rules.
We all know that there will be several games that will not win one of the 10 prizes, yet they will still be top-class, but not quite good enough to win.

Therefore, will they be used for “marketing� or not, and if so the rules should be specific on failed entries.

And as for this “Demo� idea… well the rules don’t say it MUST be a full complete game, so it can be a demo, but as Rich said, you will be judged by what you enter as that’s all they have!


you can`t sell the game becos the ailen and the ailen wave logo are copyright to some one eles

MMmmm...Yes and no.
You would have to take out the logo, but the model should be fine to leave in...by virtue of being given away without any conditions on its distribution...And because it is to be used in such a broad shareware program by definition.

Ta ta for now
Mary
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randi
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 08:15
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Well...
Since I don't get my question answered,
and it was said that the rules were final,
I guess that means you get DBpro if you are 4th - 10th and that's it.

I guess you just have to do what Plystire said.

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Van B
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 11:22
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Why does there have to be a discussion like this everytime there's a compo?. I'm gonna work on my game and enter it in an attempt to win the top prize, seems pretty damn straightforward to me - I thought that's what everyone else was doing too.


Van-B

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 16:11
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Who knows Van.. the difference is, we'll probably actually see something from you

(Try not to leave it quite as last minute this time though, please!)

Quote: "Youre welcome to show people every bit of the full version, id just rather you not give it to them."


No! You're missing the whole point of the competition. The game you create and send us is going to be given away for free download from our site for anyone that wants it regardless of if your game wins or not. Just like with all compos in the past we've run. If your title is truly so fantastic you think it's too good for this, then don't enter it because there are no exceptions to this rule.

We will not judge a game on what a different version of it contains.

Quote: "If you care to retain any copyrights, submit a demo, but dont call it a demo."


Call it whatever the heck you like! But we will not judge a game that cannot be given to people to play for free. It's as simple as that. What you do with the game AFTER the compo is entirely up to you. Why is this so hard to grasp?

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we have short-circuited the Universe!"
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Van B
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 16:32
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Hehe, I'll sure try - can't go through the same workload as the retro compo, just ain't healthy.


Van-B

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Zeal
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 16:46
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How does everyone do those pretty little quotes? Anyway...

Angel eyes - "The “Chance� is that you may win and if so then they get to distribute/give away/advertise etc etc your game… But if you DON’T win then you fall outside of that condition as far as I can see by the rules."

According to Richs last statement, thats not true. You will be handing over all copyrights as soon as you submit anything, whether you win or not. By copyrights I mean control over publication, production, distribution, and sale (free is still a sale). Just a unfortunate consequence of this competition, but hey, it is THEIR copetition. They have every right to do this. I just think its unfair. "So dont enter"... how did I see that one coming...

NWC Omega - "Send you the current version, which might only be a fifth of the full version, but still good enough to be called good"

Right on, if you want to retain copyrights just submit a demo in full versions clothing. Looks like thats how well have to do it.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 19:46
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Quote: "You will be handing over all copyrights as soon as you submit anything"


No, you will not. Get off this copyright horse unless you're going to ride it correctly, please!

Quote: "publication, production, distribution, and sale (free is still a sale)"


Your game won't be published. It won't be "produced" (you've already done that!). It will be distributed via our site, that doesn't prohibit you from distributing it and it won't be sold (free download does not equal a commercial sale!).

So again, what copyrights are you losing here?

Quote: "just submit a demo in full versions clothing"


The difference being what?! You think we're going to mark you down because it has the word "demo" in the title? It's quite simple - we'll judge what you send, nothing more, nothing less.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we have short-circuited the Universe!"
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Zeal
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 20:26
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Sigh, I shall mount the copyright horse yet again (hehe). Heres another definition if you didnt like the last one.

"The exclusive right of a creator to reproduce, prepare derivative works, distribute, perform, display, sell, lend or rent their creations. "

By submitting a game we lose all exclusive rights to reproduce, distribute, perform, display, sell, lend or rent our work. At that point, I could really care less whether or not you have the right to say "I made this". Knock yourself out. So yes, we will be handing over ALL copyrights (the parts that matter anyway).

Oh and yes our game will be published. As defined by dictionary.com. I know quoting dictionary.com makes me sound like a stuck up smartass, but ya know.

And our games will be sold (for publicity, rather than money). Sure were not PROHBITED from selling or distribution our software on our own, but come on, you know just as I do, there is no point after you start handing it out for free.

Giddyap yeehaw!

All you need is zeal
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MikeS
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 23:54
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Zeal, the one thing that puzzles me, is that you talk as if you've already won the compo.

Either do this.

1- Submit your game and win the $2000+ computer(assuming you win)
2- Don't submit your game, make it commercial, sell it, make $100 if you're lucky through shareware.
3- Whine about the compo not being good enough.

Those are the Three different paths you will either take.

Seriously, you're looking into this copyright thing, way too much.

YOU HAVN'T WON YET, AND YOU WON'T IF YOU WASTE YOUR TIME ARGUING ON THIS TOPIC.

If your game(not demo, not half level, full game) is truly great, then submit it, make another sequel version, or add more levels too it. There you go, you have the first one being advertised here at DB, and then that'll draw attention to your site, where you'll have the sequel.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 02:56 Edited at: 10th Sep 2003 02:56
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Quote: "By submitting a game we lose all exclusive rights to reproduce, distribute, perform, display, sell, lend or rent our work."


Yet again, no, you do not. You can distribute it (i.e. put it on your own site for download, that is distribution is it not?), you can "perform" it (whatever the hell that is), you can display it, you can sell it, lend it, rent it, do whatever you want with it.

Not a single one of those things has been "lost" and I challenge you to prove otherwise (without resorting to a dictionary ideally, try reading the rules, try reading my posts, try looking at what happened in the last compo).

Where is the rule that says "you cannot sell your game, you cannot lend it out, you canot distribute it" ? Mmmm?

Quote: "So yes, we will be handing over ALL copyrights (the parts that matter anyway)."


You cannot say you will hand of ALL copyrights and then in the same sentance say "well, only the parts that matter". Sorry but that's a complete contradiction.

Quote: "Oh and yes our game will be published. As defined by dictionary.com. I know quoting dictionary.com makes me sound like a stuck up smartass, but ya know. "


If you want to get that pedantic, then according to dictionary.com - just mentioning the name of your game in a forum message is "publishing" it (Syn: To proclaim; publish; make known). So hey... watch me publish Half-Life 5.. see, I've just done it

Quote: "Sure were not PROHBITED from selling or distribution our software on our own, but come on, you know just as I do, there is no point after you start handing it out for free."


You think so? Didn't stop people doing it last time. But that's not a good enough example is it.. I mean, people who actually did just that. Hands up those still reading this (and I do pity you) who wouldn't love to see an update to say Bamberman? Personally even I'd pay a few dollars for an updated version of that. But of course you're stopped from doing this by signing a pact with the copyright devil

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we have short-circuited the Universe!"
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EgoAnt
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 03:00 Edited at: 10th Sep 2003 03:05
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Zeal, in essence you are still the copyright holder, however by entering the contest you agree to allow DarkBasic and Alienware to use your creation in their promotions as they see fit.

Now, what rights does this leave you? Plenty.

For example, The Game Creators couldn't go off and start a sub company whose sole job it was to sell games and then sell your game and reap the profits. Why? This hardly qualifies as "promotional".

Also, The Game Creators couldn't take your game and make their own version or a sequel of the game. Why? Because you hold the copyright.

So look at this as a potential blessing, not as a curse. The first version of your game has a terrific potential for gaining a good following by winning a contest in which both The Game Creators AND Alienware will be showing it off. So all you need to do after getting all that free publicity is build a better version, or a sequel, and market it aggressively.

Don't think this sort of business model works? Tell that to PopCap Games. Their first hit, Bejewelled (then called Diamond Mine) is available for free play pretty much anywhere on the internet, and yet they are ROLLING in cash right now. (At one point the deluxe version of their game was selling up to $30,000 US per month!)

The only reason you should fear entering a game in this competition is if you are afraid that you will never again produce anything nearly as good as what you submit. And if that is the case, then I feel genuinely sorry for you.
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Zeal
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 04:07
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Rich - "Not a single one of those things has been "lost" and I challenge you to prove otherwise (without resorting to a dictionary ideally, try reading the rules, try reading my posts, try looking at what happened in the last compo)."

Every single one of those EXCLUSIVE things have been lost. And without exclusive rights you CAN NOT sell, lend, or rent your work when its already being handed out for free. Proven. So you want me to look at what happened in the last compo? Ok I will. Not a single person who submited a game went on to sell their creation without having to first update it significantly. And if the developer didnt update their game significantly enough, they likely lost out on potential customers who thought "nah ive already played that game for free, a few new levels/features arent worth my hard earned money".

Rich - "Where is the rule that says "you cannot sell your game, you cannot lend it out, you canot distribute it" ? Mmmm?"

Never once did I say it was in the rules. I said it was common sense that there would be no point in doing so.

Rich - "If you want to get that pedantic, then according to dictionary.com - just mentioning the name of your game in a forum message is "publishing" it (Syn: To proclaim; publish; make known). So hey... watch me publish Half-Life 5.. see, I've just done it "

Lets all get pedmanatic. That means naked right?

"You think so? Didn't stop people doing it last time. But that's not a good enough example is it.. I mean, people who actually did just that. Hands up those still reading this (and I do pity you) who wouldn't love to see an update to say Bamberman? Personally even I'd pay a few dollars for an updated version of that. But of course you're stopped from doing this by signing a pact with the copyright devil"

Sure it did stop people from doing it last time. Show me one person who sold their original creation (hell id rather see the genius who actually paid for it). And there is a difference between making a NEW Bamberman (you mean Bomberman?) and trying to re release/sell a stale version thats already been distributed for free.

Sigh, everyone is rallying behind the few non exclusive rights well retain, when the rules seem to indicate we will retain all.

14. You will retain full copyright over the game and any media you create exclusively for it.

At the very least, I hope the rules are updated. Rule number 13 also needs to be more clear, so that people understand "promotional" also means distribution for free.

Maybe this example will free some minds...

Lets say I created the George Foreman Lean Mean Fat Grilling Machine. Then I found out that there is a inventors competition, and I might have a chance to win a Alienware PC (bear with me). However, to even ENTER this competition means my grill will be handed out to everyone in the world. For free. Does this seem fair? Why cant they just write about my grill in a magazine? Why cant they just head down to the mall and let people demo my grill?

All you need is zeal
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the_winch
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 04:14
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Quote: "Lets say I created the George Foreman Lean Mean Fat Grilling Machine. Then I found out that there is a inventors competition, and I might have a chance to win a Alienware PC (bear with me). However, to even ENTER this competition means my grill will be handed out to everyone in the world. For free. Does this seem fair? Why cant they just write about my grill in a magazine? Why cant they just head down to the mall and let people demo my grill?"


Why can't you just sell your oh so great grill. If it's so good why do you need to enter a compertition in the first place.

If having your game distributed to the small % of people who buy games and happen to be at the recieving end of tgc\alienware promotions is going to lose you more sales than you want to lose then don't enter the compertition.
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Zeal
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 04:24
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Whether or not the grill is "oh so great" or not is irrelevant. You cant expect people to make such a judgement before a product is even launched. Do you think George had any idea that little #@$!ing thing would sell they way it did?

All you need is zeal
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the_winch
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 06:16
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At some point someone would have had to put significant investment into the gril. They obviously wouldn't have entered it into such a contest if it was going reduce sales too much. If they wanted a chance at winning the prize more than they wanted the sales they would have entered the compertition.

This is a compertition for amature/bedroom coders. The reduction in comercial viability that entering this compertion will bring is not an issue for most. If it is for you don't enter. Either sell your game or find another compertion to enter. Or write another game, if you are capable of writeing commercial quality games then it won't be much of a problem and the exposure you would get from having a decent entry could be used to promote your commercial release.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 11:26
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i did make a post explaining this, but my comp rebooted last nite in the middle of it - i swear i have some kinda virus on here which norton can't detect atm.

that aside ... the keywords are "grant", "exclusive" & "rights"
the MOST important word there is actually GRANT.

you are mearly ALLOWING TGC and Alienware Rights... you are not handing over, or forfeiting, etc...
the copyrights stay in YOUR posession, your mearly giving them right to use the software in anyway they fit bar retail and backengineering.

if you don't want your FULL game to be subjected to these rights then submit a DEMONSTRATION version.
There is no need to cut down what the game actually has in it, just cut down the length of it... and really you have to make it under 10mb, which'd i'd pay big bucks to see a FULL game under 10mb.
And i don't mean some silly little Tetris remake or something, i mean a PROPER game which you could actually retail and this would seem like encrouching on your rights.
And personally i don't think it is possible for a team to get a decent game going and complete it to the point of Retail Gold within 3months, not even in DBP - not unless you have a professional team behind you.

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Van B
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 11:46
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Zeal, your making less and less sense mate - maybe it's time you let it drop and decided whether your gonna risk entering the compo or not - then get to work on whatever you have planned. Alienware are supplying a damn nice PC, and they want a cool game for it, someones gotta win it, what happens with your game after the compo is upto you.

I don't think you see the big picture, this is not just a competition to get your hands on some kit, possibly the most valuable facet of the competition is the publicity - for yourself!. Shareware is a damn misserable way for most people to make money from programming, just ask any DB'er who's done it. Hell, the creator of the Star Wraith series makes just enough to make it worthwhile - I've bought commercial games that aren't fit to wipe SW's ass, and it's a million times better than anything guildhall have published.

Winning this competition should be your first priority, not how your gonna make money from your game after it.


Van-B

My cats breath smells of cat food.
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Ermes
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 12:21 Edited at: 10th Sep 2003 13:26
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hey, here there are users who minds to copyrirght, selling not selling...
If the games are of the same quality of retrocompo.... there isn't problem for the copyright.Nobody want to steal they.
If your game stun, well try to pubblicate it, but a good game for commercial circuit don't need only 3 months of work and a tiny (and a bit weird) alien model as main character.
So, quite this small talking about "oh, they let download my game for free??!! i lost all my money!!!" and try to get home a $2000 computer.
I must say Rich has a lot of patience, with you, with me yes, but don't bother with this nonsense talking about copyright.

Free Download for a Free World
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