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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Capabilities

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Tanner 3000
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2010 14:07
I have been using Fpsc seince 2004 and I have been seeing people say "Well it might not be able to support *models/etc*". With all respect and my experiance I say that it can very well handle high-poly models and larger enviorments. I would like to see someones response to there idea of "Capabilities".

Go to lostcontactgaming.com!!
LOWLZ
Nomad Soul
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2010 16:26
I think my signature will tell you everything you need to know.

Astro Chickster
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2010 16:37
Well until it has fixed collisions (no more offset box collision for dynamic models, no more chucking the player through the floor when he collides with anything) and a larger map grid (and the capability to handle a larger map grid), it most certainly won't be the best engine ever.

Must... kill... husband...'s obsession with star trek!
EGG HEAD OF DOOM
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2010 21:32
honestly these things are NOT hard to do with your own mod. those things are Farley simple. also i have been experimenting with high-poly characters and weapons.

Bugsy
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2010 21:36
I wholeheartedly agree with nomad soul. the more you put INTO fpsc, the more you get OUT OF fpsc. if you put the best effort in the world into it, then you'll come out with the best game in the world. (provided you don't get a runtime error XD)



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Astro Chickster
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2010 21:43
Yeah but changing the collision means changing the physics engine and we all know that would screw up the entire source code.

Must... kill... husband...'s obsession with star trek!
wizard of id
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2010 22:14
Quote: "Well until it has fixed collisions (no more offset box collision for dynamic models, no more chucking the player through the floor when he collides with anything) and a larger map grid (and the capability to handle a larger map grid), it most certainly won't be the best engine ever."


Falling through the floor has to do with the crawl height and jump height...So it has to be fixed by placing entities above or below those heights.Simple common sense ever tried it?

There is a reason for the set map size performance wise.If you still have collision problems all I can say "long time user" your are doing this wrong....in FPSC there are more than one way to skin a cat....

"In my weird politically incorrect hypothetically incoherent contradicting obscured world definitively maybe"

Tanner 3000
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 00:16
Im using pb mod but its far from the best. In my opinion the Crytek 3 or Unreal 3 is the best but this can be lol.

Go to lostcontactgaming.com!!
LOWLZ
Bugsy
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 03:24
so I take it you've USED crytek 3 or unreal 3? or are you just saying that because there are more big budget, triple AAA games made in those engines.



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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 04:21
Triple AAA.... That's AAAAAAAAA.

But yeah. Tanner, while there are some limits in FPSC, they're mostly limited by the computer. Some people here have computers that can't handle high-poly stuff. AND... If you get a whole team to make high-poly models with scripting, modding, and such you could make whatever you wanted to. It'd cost a fortune, but so did the greats like CoD or stuff like that.

Bottom line: The "real" games were made by big teams with lots of money. FPSC, with one guy who spends most of his time complaining on forums, with about $100 spent, won't come out as good. Oh well.

"And we played the first thing that came to our heads...Just so happened to be... the best song in the world...

it was the best song in the world..."
General Jackson
User Banned
Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 04:38
***Sigh***

FPSC is NOT the best game engine in the world.

1. It was coded in DBpro, which is not NEARLY as fast as C++.
Most modern engines are coded in c++ or a similarly fast language.
2. DBpro cannot handle the amount of Polygons that languages like c++ can. Have you ever seen a DBpro game with 6 Million plus polies on screen, full screenshaders, characters with 50+ bones, and so on?
I neednt go on.
FPSC is outdated, that is all there is to it.

Shadowtroid
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 04:50
I know. But the main reason it's not as good as the big games is that more work is put into those. If as much work is put into FPSC as say MW2 or something it could definitely rival it.

"And we played the first thing that came to our heads...Just so happened to be... the best song in the world...

it was the best song in the world..."
Bugsy
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 04:54
as I said. a game engine is only as good as the work you put in it, and the quality of your game Idea. so while OFFICIALLY, FPSC isn't the best engine in the world, It could be used to create the best game in the world.



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Kill3r7
User Banned
Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 05:03
Quote: "Im using pb mod but its far from the best. In my opinion the Crytek 3 or Unreal 3 is the best but this can be lol."


Haha crysis engine 3 is extreme best than fps creator, its code in C++, and not can create the best game in the word, Cry engine 3 is very fast than other engines Now, Watch videos for view.

Fps creator is fast, but not than others. the models of Cry engine 3 have much than 180.000 polygons
Kravenwolf
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 05:09 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2010 05:10
You should be looking at the capabilities of the developer(s), and not the engine itself. With all of the new mod features, shaders, and the overall flexibility of this engine, there's really nothing stopping a developer, or a small team of developers from really acheiving something. Granted, it's not on par with the Unreal Engine; but again, even that engine (as with any other) is limited by what the developers can do with it.

My two cents--
I've always seen two roads with FPS Creator. It can be treated as either a game engine, or it can be treated as a game creator. By "game creator", I mean the developer uses what's available to him (media, source mods, sounds, etc), and drag and drops everything together in a few days or weeks to create a fast-paced FPS level.

What I mean when I say it can be used as a game engine, is, as with any other game engine, the developer (or developers) use their combined talents to create their own media, audio, source modifications, animations, AI, and etc, and use FPS Creator as the engine to run it on. Working with the engine and not around it will always give you better results. And building the engine around your game will always give you better results than building your game around the engine. FPS Creator might not have the same potential as Unreal or Cry, but it can still make something great. But, it's all up to the developer.

Kravenwolf

Bugsy
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 05:20
I agree. potential is in the developer, not the engine. the engine is like a paintbrush to a painter. a really bad painter with a really nice paintbrush won't make anything good, but a really good painter with even the worst brush on earth can create an amazing painting.



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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 13:15
Yup. If the people in Infinity Ward (the guys who made CoD) made their games with FPSC, and Tanner here made his game with Unreal 3, which game would come out better?

"And we played the first thing that came to our heads...Just so happened to be... the best song in the world...

it was the best song in the world..."
Bugsy
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 15:41
well, probably infinity wards!
(they'd just grab the nuke pack, the CoD gameplay pack, and some EAI guns)
and make the same game they've been making for years now
they have a massive team, and could use MW2's characters (make new ones even, or re-animate FPSC's chars) and do whatever with weapons and such. if would obviously come out better than tanner3000 with one guy, some energy drink, and a nice engine with no media but unreal tournament 3 media, and whatever he himself modeled.



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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 15:53
Yeah. That's what I mean.

FPSC, while not quite as good as Unreal 3 or Crytek 3 or whatever, is mostly limited by the developer.

"And we played the first thing that came to our heads...Just so happened to be... the best song in the world...

it was the best song in the world..."
Tanner 3000
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 19:07
I get what your saying but FPSC is sill pretty good and someday it may produce a AAA game.

Go to lostcontactgaming.com!!
LOWLZ
Shadowtroid
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 19:16
It could now, if we could as much money and manpower as big companys.

Unfortunately, no one here is organized to lead that kind of project.

"And we played the first thing that came to our heads...Just so happened to be... the best song in the world...

it was the best song in the world..."
Nomad Soul
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 22:14 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2010 22:16
Friends

Thanks for understanding where I was coming from and for seeing the true potential in our most valued piece of software.

FPSC is just so fantastic and we really can make seriously good games with it now. I love this engine.

Shadowtroid
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 22:18
I agree.

I mean, it's not the best in the world, and if equally-skilled teams with equal funding made games in FPSC and Unreal 3, Unreal 3 would come out on top. But people do underestimate FPSC. It's capable of lots more then what people think.

"And we played the first thing that came to our heads...Just so happened to be... the best song in the world...

it was the best song in the world..."
Bugsy
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 01:02
but what we're saying here is- ANYTHING is the best in the world if it has the best developer and best idea in the world.



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Coach Shogun 20
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 01:43
Quote: "ANYTHING is the best in the world if it has the best developer and best idea in the world."


Anything is the best in the world, if you believe it is. Best is (for the most part) a matter of opinion. Maybe not in sports (I you run the fastest 100 meter dash in the world, then you're the best for sure), but not as far as game creation and games go. (someone could really like one game the most, someone else could absolutely hate that game. Game ratings mean little to nothing over what game is better, really.) The same goes for engines. If you have more fun playing run & gun FPSC games then you do playing anything else, then FPSC is the best engine. If you don't, something else is. It's all relative, and its all a matter of opinion.

Shadowtroid
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 03:42
Good point, Coach Shogun.

"And we played the first thing that came to our heads...Just so happened to be... the best song in the world...

it was the best song in the world..."
Bugsy
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 14:54
true, I'm just trying to say that with a good Idea and enough effort, nothing is stopping FPSC from being a big budget commercial engine. (especially not that royalty free liscense)



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Marc Steene
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 15:31
Quote: "I get what your saying but FPSC is sill pretty good and someday it may produce a AAA game."


I understand we're trying to be optimistic here, but let's be realistic. FPSC, in it's stock form, will not produce a triple A FPS, no matter what kind of funding or team it has. It would produce a good commercial game at best, but it would not be standing among the games such as Halo 3, Modern Warfare 2, and Gears of War 2.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
Shadowtroid
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 15:33
Yeah. It's cool, and often underestimated, but no ones making Halo 4 on it.

"And we played the first thing that came to our heads...Just so happened to be... the best song in the world...

it was the best song in the world..."
Bugsy
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 15:54
don't be so sure, marc steene. I'll admit, gears of war 2 having better gameplay, and graphics, and a "better" engine in general can afford a less than totally original Idea. on the other hand, trying to do something with FPSC would require way more effort, heck even a custom source mod, all custom models from the best artists on the forums and some of the most clever scripting ever. now it would come near matching features of a big budget commercial game. and then again, a big budget would be spent on the game you made, therefore making it a big budget commercial game. (if it went commercial)



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michael x
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 16:51
comparing fpsc to other engines is pointless. it like comparing the wii to ps3 & xbox360. graphic, speed isnt everything unless you like to watch the game like movies instead of playing it. n64 proves that when games like 007 goldeneye, starfox and turok change that. n64 also got push on so many levels games like star wars rougue squadron have shown that.taking a low end engine and producing good quality games is a impressive thing to do. but in the gaming world you have to start from somewhere and low end engines is a good place. the better you get with a low end engine the better you will become with a high end engine. allowing you to understand your limits help you learn how to push the engine on other levels. like what bond1 did with the shaders. even before i use a mod i learn how to use the low end performance without dropping framerates and making a big gaming environment.learning what can weaken you game engine can allow you to develop a game better.I dont think lee had it in mind to make the best engine but more like give beginners a good head start.as far as the coding gos he wants us to understand darkbasic and coding and make it easier for us to write our video game with coding. as nintendo wanted to make games fun to play as lee wanted it to be fun to create games. down sizing this program and making thread like this is pointless. fpsc is going to be fpsc that the bottom line dont like move on. we should be taking about how we can make it better and not how bad it is. no game engine is perfect, learn fpsc like the mods did and build the engine the way you want it to work. fpsc give us more free space than you think. dont sleep on fpscx10 as well learn how to write dark ai its very powerful.

more than what meets the eye
dark peanut
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 18:51 Edited at: 4th Feb 2010 18:58
Quote: "I understand we're trying to be optimistic here, but let's be realistic. FPSC, in it's stock form, will not produce a triple A FPS, no matter what kind of funding or team it has. It would produce a good commercial game at best, but it would not be standing among the games such as Halo 3, Modern Warfare 2, and Gears of War 2."


I agree 100 percent. The fact is that FPSC just doesn't have the same capabilities as triple A engines any way you look at it. Its just the truth. I do believe, however, that FPSC is a great base or stepping stone to start on before moving on to bigger and better things.

dark peanut

current projects: a game about a guy
Marc Steene
FPSC Master
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 19:12
Quote: "don't be so sure, marc steene. I'll admit, gears of war 2 having better gameplay, and graphics, and a "better" engine in general can afford a less than totally original Idea. "


Very few of the stories I've seen on this forum can be called original. It's zombies this, apocalypse that, with a few exceptions creating a compelling storyline. I thought the Gears of War 2 story was pretty good.

Quote: "on the other hand, trying to do something with FPSC would require way more effort, heck even a custom source mod, all custom models from the best artists on the forums and some of the most clever scripting ever. "


More effort? Even with one person making an FPSC game, I can guarantee that the years of effort and skill that went into Modern Warfare 2 will greatly excel it. In FPSC, you have the ease of use of the engine, all media provided to you by professional artists at a cheap price, and a scripting syntax so easy that an 8 year old could master it. I'm not sure how many names were on the Modern Warfare 2 credits, but it was nearing a thousand. Their team is so big because of all the skills required to complete a game - the C# scripters, the modelers, the texturers, the animators, the composers, the testers, the directors, not to mention many more. And this isn't sitting at home making an FPSC game, it's going to a company office all day to work on the game.

Quote: "and then again, a big budget would be spent on the game you made, therefore making it a big budget commercial game."


A big budget nowadays is considered millions of dollars for a game. I don't think it's feasibly possible to spend that much (or even into the high thousands) on media and mods for FPSC, because everything is so cheap (which is a plus).


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
Aaagreen
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 19:21
Quote: "don't be so sure, marc steene."


No, FPS Creator won't be making the next Halo. The map sizes are tiny (And you cant say "but you can mod it" because you can't change the editor without it's source code which no-one has.

And even Infinity Ward wouldn't be able to create a proper game to the standards of todays, because it just isn't possible with this current horrible source code - Lee seems to be just dumping the new code on top of the old code (Like Garry does with the latest Garrys Mod and now we have the most unstable version yet)

Jeku always gets drunk and tries to Moderate the ocean. Tirelessly slapping the waves as they roll in.
Bugsy
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 19:32 Edited at: 4th Feb 2010 19:33
Quote: "Very few of the stories I've seen on this forum can be called original. It's zombies this, apocalypse that, with a few exceptions creating a compelling storyline. I thought the Gears of War 2 story was pretty good."


I might also add that very few of the games on this forum have become blockbusters ;D

Quote: "A big budget nowadays is considered millions of dollars for a game. I don't think it's feasibly possible to spend that much (or even into the high thousands) on media and mods for FPSC, because everything is so cheap (which is a plus)."


by that I meant hiring bond1 or EAI to make every model, like custom models, amd hiring ply or hockeykid or both of them to make a mod for you, and constantly change it to your needs

Quote: "More effort? Even with one person making an FPSC game, I can guarantee that the years of effort and skill that went into Modern Warfare 2 will greatly excel it. In FPSC, you have the ease of use of the engine, all media provided to you by professional artists at a cheap price, and a scripting syntax so easy that an 8 year old could master it. I'm not sure how many names were on the Modern Warfare 2 credits, but it was nearing a thousand. Their team is so big because of all the skills required to complete a game - the C# scripters, the modelers, the texturers, the animators, the composers, the testers, the directors, not to mention many more. And this isn't sitting at home making an FPSC game, it's going to a company office all day to work on the game."


no, more effort like: if you were trying to make MW2, you would in theory have to do more, because FPSC is more limited.

Quote: "The map sizes are tiny (And you cant say "but you can mod it" because you can't change the editor without it's source code which no-one has."


v1.16 has the map editor source.



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dark peanut
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 19:50
Quote: "no, more effort like: if you were trying to make MW2, you would in theory have to do more, because FPSC is more limited."


Even then in the end you would come nowhere close at all to making MW2 exactly because FPSC is much more limited.

dark peanut

current projects: a game about a guy
Bugsy
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 21:36
well, have you ever tried to make MW2 in FPSC?

obviously not. so you wouldn't know. really put your mind to the test thinking about how you could make MW2 in FPSC and you'd come up with a way that would work*



*in theory.



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dark peanut
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 22:18 Edited at: 4th Feb 2010 23:02
I very highly doubt it. Though you could make a much simpler MW2 that is quite choppy and is nothing like MW2.

And just so we can't be accused of just being opinionated, here is some solid evidence. If you really think FPSC can make something as good as that then you're being a bit ignorant..for lack of a gentler word.

UDK Feature List:
http://www.udk.com/features.html

Source Engine:
http://source.valvesoftware.com/

CryEngine 3 Feature List:
http://www.crytek.com/technology/cryengine-3/specifications/

dark peanut

current projects: a game about a guy
Help ME ! ! !
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 23:33
Quote: "v1.16 has the map editor source."

u mean u can use as many area as u want? please describe briefly.
Bugsy
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 23:38
no, I'm not ignorant, but there are some people that like some games more than others. I'm saying if you had a good enough Idea, good enough media, and a good enough method of distributing your game than it could be just as good, or just as popular rather as other more professionally made games.

there is nothing carved in million year old stone that the only way to have a good game is with a good engine, lots of enemies, and massive levels.

but I don't want to argue this anymore, so I'm just going to let you win and call it even. I don't much like disputes.



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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 23:43
I agree with Bugsy.

I think you could get something a lot closer to Modern Warfare than people think. People are producing bigger and better things with FPSC all the time.

Quote: "No, FPS Creator won't be making the next Halo. The map sizes are tiny (And you cant say "but you can mod it" because you can't change the editor without it's source code which no-one has.
"


They will soon. Lee is releasing the editor source.

Bugsy
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 23:56
I thought it was in 1.16?



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uman
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Posted: 5th Feb 2010 00:37
There are many people with differing and valid opinions.

The only reality is that to date we dont see any games that I am aware of that have any great degree of commercial success which at the end of the day is a real world valuation of and an important way that humans judge what is good and what is bad. That is how many people are prepared to part with their money for something.

Until anyone actually develops and releases any game of some commercial standing then all of the debate enjoyable though it might be is just hype and personal opinion.

FPSC is likely to sell many more copies than anything ever made with it both for obvious reasons.

As a long standing supporter of FPSC I would be pleased to see a successful commercial game release in the real sense of the term developed with it however personally I don't see it ever happening.

Sure FPSC has a lot more colourful bells and whistles than it used to have but as a successful game making tool I would agree that the core engine has not improved but suffered as a result. Its been around a long time now and is a less stable platform at the moment than it was in the past for me at least.

You will have to wait a while longer yet for commercial success I think.




250 seamless textures : http://www.umedia.co.uk
Nomad Soul
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Posted: 5th Feb 2010 16:05
This is a very interesting thread and great to see peoples thoughts.

One thing we all agree on is that FPSC is a very capable engine and could be used for a high quality commercial project, just maybe not a AAA one yet.

I don't agree the engine has suffered as a result of the latest official or mod releases. I've been using FPSC v1.15 with Project Blue v1.7 and for the first time I feel like I'm using a stable engine with good performance and excellent features. I can't wait for Project Blue v1.8 which is based on FPSC v1.16.

There have also been big improvements on the tools available such as FPSC toolbox and character toolkit not to mention the amazing shaders, content and tutorials the community are releasing.

We've never had it as good as we have it right now. This was also communicated in the February newsletter with the criteria for BOTB entries being increased. FPSC v1.17 is already in the works and TGC are finally going to start allowing mod related code changes to be submitted for approval into the official engine.

There is so much going on with FPSC now that I'm struggling to keep up with it all.

uman
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Posted: 5th Feb 2010 17:18
I am still waiting to see some great, highly successful commercial FPS games made with any indie engine. Let me know when you find one.



250 seamless textures : http://www.umedia.co.uk
Bugsy
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Posted: 5th Feb 2010 19:09
was braid made in an engine?



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Red Eye
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Posted: 6th Feb 2010 09:59
Wel...

All it needs, is a good DBP to C++ port.

And i believe i know someone, wich is doing that...


Metal Devil123
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Posted: 6th Feb 2010 11:14
Well, in my opinion, the future will show what can be achieved in FPSC. Maby some day someone will do a great commercial game with it (*cough* propably me [lol a joke]). But I have seen some great stuff been done with FPSC. HCZ, E.L.E everything Wolf made and so on.

PS: I haven't heard much about E.L.E. But I think it looks OUTSTANDING!

Marc Steene
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Posted: 6th Feb 2010 11:28
Quote: "If you really think FPSC can make something as good as that then you're being a bit ignorant..for lack of a gentler word."


I agree. I wish I was able to believe that FPSC was capable of producing a triple A game, but it simply isn't. And it was never supposed to. I don't think many people buy a $50 game engine with the expectations of creating a game which would stand alongside Modern Warfare 2.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
Shadowtroid
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Posted: 6th Feb 2010 13:37
Of course not. Maybe in the future... with lots of extra media and mods and scripting... But it is possible I believe. Not now, obviously. But maybe, in the future, with a huge team, TONS of new media, an awesometastic mod, and lots of scripting it could be done.

Ah well. We'll just have to wait for the furure right now.

"And we played the first thing that came to our heads...Just so happened to be... the best song in the world...

it was the best song in the world..."

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