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Work in Progress / Syndicate: Remastered

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Wiggett
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 13:33 Edited at: 10th Sep 2003 14:18
Word up all, the crazy pirate of the dark basic world has returned with an even more flamtastic idea for a game, a remake of the classic cyber punk game by bullfrog, Syndicate. My new game im workign on, Syndicate: remastered, will feature all the glorious features of the snes version (which is more limited than pc version).
i've already worked on a little world map and made my own tiles and everything, (buildings included). Im working on ripping the sprites of the characters from teh snes rom of the game. sure its pirating but this game is free and all that and is just tehre to relive the great game of old. If anyone out there wants to help make this game please throw in a shilling, i can make a map and graphics but getting a sprite to walk on that map is beyond my pirate skills
but arg enough about me, just check out my new sig for a phunky view of the map which i photo shopped some game sprites onto, i think it looks rather smashing. (more screens coming soon!)

just a test screen, the people are actually tiles, i still don't know how to make people walk on it


Van B
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 16:08
Looking cool, I loved Syndicate - I even had a soft spot for Syndicate Wars on the PS, especially on multiplayer mode!

I suggest that you store each different head and it's different views as an image each, then have a generic animated body and paste the head on top - should save a lot of hassle. You need the body as images, for each direction and each frame of animation, so that you can simply paste the character onto the screen correctly.

The tricky bit is Z depth sorting though, because your little guys can walk behind buldings, you need to sort out the correct drawing order. You can easily get the tile location that the guys are standing on, so this can be used when drawing the tiles, when your drawing each tile, you have to check if there's any guys on the tile and draw them afterwards, but before the next row of tiles is drawn.

So, in Psuedo code:

for z=0 to 32
for x=0 to 32
paste tile for x,z
for guy=0 to 10
if guy is standing on tile x,z then paste guy
next guy
next x
next z

This is a pretty damn sloppy way to do it, but it's probably the easiest too - if you don't have too many characters, you can get away with it, otherwise I'd look into limiting the guy check (for example, before stepping through the X coordinates, do a check to see if there's any guys in that Z row, if there aren't you don't need to do the check at all).

It should'nt be a big deal to get some movement going, if your stuck - you know where to send it .


Van-B

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Wiggett
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 16:23
yeah see i didnt understand any of that at all. i understand what i need to do, like paste him below a tile that is infront of him, but as for the code i got no idea. atm im using zen's code for his map modified to my needs, but im thinkign i may have to actually make that seperate, eg use that to make the map then another program to run the map thats made, or could i just pin the movement engine into the code. anyway if you want to help code it so people cane move around the map then i'd be glad to pass on the code, a si said im better working with the graphics than the code. and i alreayd have a few of the animations from the game, just gotta expand on em a bit more.Atm i have the heads and bodies together, but the way you said it with just one body and the head seperate, will that save speed or jsut slow it?

Van B
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 16:38
Hmmm, hard to say - it would be slower when pasting, but the reduced graphic memory outlay would probably make up for it - it's convenience more than anything else mate. You could even decapitate people if you kept them seperate...

I can help out a little, but I'm busy so I won't be able to do too much - I have the time to add movement though, so once you have the animations ready feel free to email me a copy and I'll get the little buggers running around.


Van-B

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Wiggett
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 16:42
awesome dude thanks, i will have all the graphics for the animations done by tomorrow night, so i can send em to ya then and you can work on them whenever you have time. i'll put each character seperate, i think it will probably be easier that way, instead of the headless thing. cause animating when they fall down might be a hassle. anyway thanks for the hand.i just ripped the guard bot model too, thos elittle flying red brain looking things that shoot you if you have a gun out its good cause it doesn't need to animated.

FieldDoc
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 16:58
Hi Rob,
I am putting the finishing touches to IsoME today and maybe tomorrow. After that I was going to start work on Omnipotence. Since you have helped me out so much recently, I'll see if I can help you figure out the walk/draw routine (might as well as i'll have to solve it at some stage for my own game!). I'll probably need some code though.

FieldDoc
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 16:58
BTW, Nice screens

Wiggett
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 17:03
cool thanx doc.i still got more tiles to come your way too.

Beavis
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 17:15
You have error in your drawing tiles rutine. Or black lines have some sense?
Look on offsets where you draw.
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 18:32
Syndicate was one of the first PC games I ever played back in 93, and I loved every minute of it. Nice to see a remake, and surprisingly this is similar to a project I wanted to start in Pro when I get it. My only nagging problem is that evil word we all know and hate - pathfinding. This is the one thing thats making me think otherwise at the moment because im stumped when it comes to AI and theres nobody to help.

As for the sprite layering, this is a super difficult concept, especially if developed in Classic, in fact ive already hunted out various methods of doing this and i cant find a good one.

Good luck anyway and Im sorry I cant really provide any help what with my college crap Ive got to do.

"It's amazin' what you can do with a computer and access to t'internet"
indi
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Posted: 10th Sep 2003 18:46
sweet! will u be able to ride the trains and use the cars like in the amiga version i had?.

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It's already tomorrow in Australia
Wiggett
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Posted: 11th Sep 2003 04:45
nahs only the cars, super nes didnt have trains as i recall, but i suppose we can add it in if we can get cars working we can get trains. Im working on more sprites now van b, i'll make each character (red,green,blue,white) have their own sprite file with all teh differnt poses for walking etc.

@beavis: yeah the black lines come up probably because of the code, but its ok for now cause i can see what tile the group is on, and the buildings have been drawn with a black outline, i like to draw things that way to make them look mroe stylish.

Wiggett
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Posted: 11th Sep 2003 13:48 Edited at: 11th Sep 2003 15:07
goddarnit! i went out and my gf bought me syndicate wars for the ps1, 9she bought it cause i didnt have any money ) i get home and i dig up my ps1, and i cant find the freakin controller! so now i gotta wait to go buy or borrow one. farking sheetness. ohwell i guess i will go back to workin on the sprites.

ok guys got a package for ya, the test im sending van b to modify the walk animations for. in this package you will recieve:
1 world test demo
all the graphics needed including one red character sprite sheet
1 fun. (anymore and we can release the product )

size 587k i think.
http://www.angelfire.com/wizard2/unpotkf/syndicateremastered.zip

i will email you van b with the zip so u dont have to download from here

Wiggett
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Posted: 11th Sep 2003 16:23
wor dup peeps, more to add, i jsut made my own little syndicate animation, first in a series of comics. its only short but christ its a meg worth of animation
here it is in zip style

http://www.angelfire.com/wizard2/unpotkf/syndcomic1.zip

Van B
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Posted: 11th Sep 2003 16:32
I'll be sure to check that out tonight.

Have you player Syndicate Wars before? - I found it a lot less strategic than the first game - but it's good for a laugh, especially when you get a rediculous amount of civies on your side!.


Van-B

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Wiggett
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Posted: 11th Sep 2003 16:38
hehe nah i havent played wars yet, which was why i was hanging out to play it tonight, but i still think 1 will be better, cant beat the mad cyber punk 2d graphics

Falelorn
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 07:02
Cool, cant wait to see it in action.

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Van B
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 11:08
Hehe, got the little dudes running around! - as many as you like run to their destinations, then they stop and hang around before running off somewhere else . I have 100 cyberpunks running around - you click the mouse to set the destination and a random punk will walk there (holding the mouse button sets them all eventually). I added a sprite sort routine too, so they don't just appear on top of each other. Looks really cool.

Anyhoo, gotta look into translating 2D coords to retrieve the tile location they're standing on before I can hide them behind buildings etc - should have it back to you this weekend.


Van-B

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Falelorn
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 12:05
off topic kinda, but wasnt there a Syndicate 2? or wasnt there going to ba a Syndicate 2?

I always thought a FPS version of Sydicate would rock.

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Dreamora
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 12:43
there was a Syndicate 2 called Syndicate Wars ... but I never got the fingers on it

was fullprize and then away. for fullprize there was to less new ... I wished they had made a classic out of it here
Wiggett
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 15:53
sounds totaly awesome van, can't wait to see it in action, um don't think you can send me what you have now so i can check it out, oreven just some screens? . and i took my copy of synd wars to my gf's house this morning to play on her bros ps2, fug it rules! not AS awesome as number 1, but when i figured out how to play it ruled how my uzi's would set trees on fire. so totally totally awesome. oh and when i bought it from EB the guy said how he liked the original syndicate and going round shootingcivs an di told him im working on a remake for the pc and he was like totally wowed. now i rule, oh ofcourse everyone else who puts in will rule as much as i do

Van B
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 16:06
No problem Rob, it won't be for a few hours yet 'cos I'm still at work, but later I'll send you what I have. I extended it so the same system can be used for NPC's - so if you could make a similar sprite image for civies too, I could impliment them before sending you the code properly (I'll send what I have tonight, then put in some collision detection and building clipping and send the new version sometime over the weekend).


Van-B

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actarus
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 16:11
I loved Syndicate,only played the first one though

There's something about industrial spying and brainwashing that just makes me think of computers

Everyobdy wants to be loved,But no one loves everybody...

HEY!!! I'm the one who had 'Cyberspace' in his location on the older black forums,shame on you Rich j/k
Wiggett
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 16:25
coolies van b, i cant work on new sprites tonight, i finsihed work just before, and i got to go to bed early cause i got work from 9 till 5 tomorrow and i gotta ge tup early to travel there. but if i get home at a reasonable time tomorow night i will grab the civillian sprites from the game andwork on it for ya. but i will stay up as long as i can cause i really wanna see what you've done,it sounds awesome , also how does it run, cause i think i was getting some slowdown with just the map going, but icouldnt print fps to the screen properly. anyway if i can get a copy of what you have i can see how it runs on my pc. well hope to hear from ya soon.

Van B
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 16:39
I think about 30fps with 100 characters, it does speed up a helluva lot when the map is not on screen, but I have optimised the code a little, and got it to display the FPS, the ink was set to black . Don't worry about it, it feels just like the old Syndicate, even with all the extra characters on screen at once.


Van-B

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Wiggett
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 17:09
mad, im gonan hea doff to be dnow cause i feel sleepy, but when i get home tomorrow straight to teh computer oh, could you send the files as a self contained exe aswell as the seperate files, cause i will be going to my gf's first and she doesnt have db :/ thats if it's not too much trouble, if it is dont worryabout it.
night all

Van B
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 19:16
Nite Nite!

No worries about the .exe, I'll include that too.


Van-B

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FieldDoc
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 02:13
This is shaping up to be a nice little game by the sounds of it. Keep up the good work guys.

BTW, I have also found the FPS to be fairly shocking using Zens tile engine (I think thats' what UberWigett is using) as i'm using a modified version for IsoME. I am re-writing the drawing routine to speed it up. If I get it >50 FPS i'll let you have it for this game if you like

The admiral
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 03:39
I alwasy liked syndicate although for me it was quite hard to play. I always died.

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Van B
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 03:55
Hehe, just tried the code I sent Uberwidget in DBPro, worked without any modifications, and it flies .


Van-B

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Wiggett
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 12:45
haha! i played the exe on my gf's computer, i got 9 frames with 20 guys on screen at the one time and 15 with just 1 her machine isnt too bad either, but its running poorly now anyway. but totally awesome they all face the right way that they are walking, its great to see animation on one of my 2d projects, cause i've never seen it before anyway man thanks and cant wait to see what you do later aswell. keep up the good work and thanks a bunch too.

Van B
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 16:47
Yeah, DBC is not fast for 2D at all - but once it's finished, I'd be happy to compile it/fix it for DBPro, so don't worry too much if it's a little slow. Even at 10fps, it still feels like the original though, albeit with slightly demented characters . Here's an idea though, instead of drawing every standard grey tile, you could have that as a background that is offset - so you'd only have to draw the roads and buildings, might boost the fps - I'll take a look and see if it's possible.


Van-B

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Preston C
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 16:58
Man, what I'd do to have Van B helping me on one of my projects...

This looks pretty cool. Never played the original though. Keep it up.

Yeah, DBC is really slow at 2D, how bout you switch to 3D plains? It'd be faster then.


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Van B
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 16:27
Yep, made the pre-drawn bitmap with just the standard tile, and copying it over the screen at the right position and getting rid of the CLS boosts the FPS by about 40-50%. It also removes the black border too .


Van-B

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Wiggett
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Posted: 16th Sep 2003 14:15
so hows it coming along van, i've finished work so i will be able to get to work on syndicate R once my room gets cleared out.

Van B
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Posted: 16th Sep 2003 16:04
Hi Rob,
Gotta come up with a 2D to iso coordinate converter for collision and Zdepth sorting, should'nt be too much longer now though.


Van-B

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FieldDoc
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Posted: 16th Sep 2003 18:18
Uberwiggett,

I'm gonna send Van some mouse position recognition code to help out when I get home from work. If you are using Zen's core tile engine, it shouldn't take much to slot it in your main game loop.

Wiggett
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 04:11 Edited at: 17th Sep 2003 04:24
cool as. man today rocks, i get a new guitar and amp and help with remaking syndicate. arr tis a pirates life for me

update: got green blue and white sprites done. just used the handy replace colour tool in photoshop give me a bell if u want me to send them

Wiggett
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 05:31
for those of you without the code her ei sthe version that van b sent me. with 100 dudes on screen i get 7 frames :/ it still runs ok actually, no noticable slowdown, specially for 7 fps.


FieldDoc
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 12:35
Looks great,
I see you still need to sort out sprite collisions though. I wonder if it could be done by flagging the map array? What I mean is that it might be possible to flag a particular tile as a solid object (as I see your buildings are just terrain tiles). If you flagged the skyscraper tile as a solid object and got the sprite movement routine to check if the character had just moved into a tile that was flagged as a solid object then it could perform whatever sprite collision event you want to happen. Does that make sense? If it does, I could add the map flagging support to IsoME very easily. You could compile a map with it and see if it works.

BTW, have you tried using IsoME to make a map for Syndicate> Just wondered if it would be helpful for that purpose? If it would be, I could help you make some maps if you like.

Beavis
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 12:47
I have simple solution....

You must draw sprites in order same as drawing tiles. Its good to have multilayer map.

one layer for floors
one for static objects
one for moving objects
etc...

then you arange each tile from all layers and then draw another tile in proper order.

To have smooth moving of sprites keep on which tile sprite is + xoffset and yoffset for smooth moving.
Wiggett
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 14:54
Van B
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 15:37
That's the plan for collision, just get the tile image number from the characters feet. I reckon a secondary collision array is needed for character to character collision though, but that's no biggie. You'd have about 4x4 inner tiles per tile, each inner tile can hold 1 person - so you'd stamp all the characters positions into the character collision array, then use that to check the new positions of the characters - if the inner tile is taken, the move is not possible.

Thanks for the tile checking code BTW, should get it implimented and the collision/sprite ordering done tonight.

Beavis,
Because there's one underlying tile in Syndicate (the grey slab), I drew that to a bitmap so it can be copied onto the screen - removing the need to clear the screen and draw the grey slab tile. This is sorta like a layer, then the other tiles can be drawn and the characters after that. However, this will have to change because the characters need to walk behind buildings too - therefor the tiles and characters need to be drawn in the same procedure. I already made a sprite sorting system, but that'll have to be expanded now.

I'll try and have the new code to you tonight Uber'.


Van-B

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Beavis
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 15:48
Sprite sorting is not needed. If you use my solution, then you don't need sort sprites. You only draw visible tiles and visible sprites. Its so simple. I have working code vith semitransparent walls, animated sprites etc. But it is in C++.
Van B
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 17:21
Beavis,
That's crazy talk mate!
You'd have to sort the sprites by their Y coordinate or something to know what order to draw them in. Even if you knew the tile they were on, there could still be half a dozen individual sprites on that tile. I reckon your idea would work best on a smaller scaled engine, with tiles about the same size as the characters, but in this case the characters meed to go anywhere on any tile.


Van-B

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Beavis
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 17:37
Yes, you are right. I don't think about so small sprites. I work on engine where characters are much bigger than tile. Tiles was 32x16 and characters was 64x128 etc. But if you draw more sprites on one tile then you need only sort them by yoffset. So... you are right. Sorry
Wiggett
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 03:19
excellent work van, cant wait to see the game in motion

Dreamora
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 04:22 Edited at: 18th Sep 2003 04:30
For the whole depth sorting the "easiest" way is to say that every tile is 2x2 so you have a length of 1 if you subdivide them and don't have to use floating point calculations.

to find the ones to draw first I would suggest a binary tree structure sorted after front=x-coord+y-coord.

bin-trees are extremly efficient for things like this. for the root just take a point in the middle of the screen this way it will become a quite balanced tree.

because of the numbers of tiles etc on screen I don't think it would give much more performance using an AVL tree instead of a bin-tree, it's just complicates the whole implementation.
Wiggett
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 04:45
i know its early stages togo visionary on you guys, but i plan to make this multiplayer, with a chat system similar to UO. as you can see in my sig. I only have dbc normal (non enhanced) so i got no way of workin it on that. so if any takers out there want to make the finished product multi put in your bids now and i no longer view this as my project cause you guys have done moe work on it than i have, we can make it as a team, i'll do the graphics and you more experienced coder guys do the coding

Dreamora
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 07:19
Hmm DBC makes the whole thing much more complicated ... especially if you are using real sprites and not textured plains ...

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