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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Creating Story-Driven FPSC Games: The Offical Advice Thread

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Chris Redfield 2008
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Posted: 16th Feb 2010 13:08 Edited at: 16th Feb 2010 13:12
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IDK about you guys but I think the FPS gaming world needs more Story-Driven games. Which is very much something I'd like to do with any game I make with FPSC. By now your probably thinking that something like that would be too hard, or even impossible in FPSC! But with a little bit of passion, imagination, and good old fashioned inspiration, Im pretty sure that any of us here can write/make one hell of a thriller for FPSC. But there is drawback to all of this. Some people flat-out don't even care about stories in games. All they wanna do is KILL, KILL, and don't forget... KILL in a game. Which, don't get me wrong, is very fun! But without a good story, it all seems kinda lifeless. So before I go any further with this, I'd like to hear some of your guy's thoughts on a story-driven FPS. As well as advice for making one.

C.R. 2008

"Wether you think you can, or you think you cannot, you are usually right" - Henry Ford

DARKNESS IS COMING...2010... Where will you be?
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Bugsy
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Posted: 16th Feb 2010 19:06
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story driven games are my favourite type of games to make in FPSC. the killing is more satisfying.



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EGG HEAD OF DOOM
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Posted: 16th Feb 2010 22:05
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it is VERY hard o do in FPSC because the Trigger and Waypoint system is not that good. i am actually making techniques for this though.

http://fpsc.freephpbb3.com/advanced-fpsc-game-play-guide-vt101.html

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Bugsy
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Posted: 17th Feb 2010 02:28
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the trigger/waypoint system is TOP NOTCH! I love it! what's it missing?



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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 17th Feb 2010 03:02 Edited at: 17th Feb 2010 03:03
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Well, I came to games through Hollywood, and while I would not classify most H'wood movies as good stories, they try... *cough* Anyway, writing stories for film and games has a lot of similarities... and good stories make the "best" (in my opinion, the most memorable and emotional)games and films. Stories have been at the center of human society and culture since it began.

Where FPSC is concerned, all video games have story limitations brought about by the technology, but it's the magic of storytelling to weave a compelling story around those very limitations... using those very limitations! In the end, the listener/gamer hasn't noticed the limitations because of the keen storyteller's slight-of-hand. For instance, the trick here is not always to create an "open world"... as much as it is to invisibly guide the player -- making them feel like they're inhabiting an "open world." Are the new STAR WARS movies better, more involving stories than the originals? Was showing everything -- packing each shot with tons of information -- better than working within the low budget of A NEW HOPE (the original version)? The best stories are those that use limitations to their benefit. Heck, that's the reason for the cliffhanger serials!

My take on story is that it is the core of a game. This is the very reason I can't last more than an hour in an online arena game; killing just to kill is boring and a waste of time (IMHO). Killing for a reason becomes more important... add inherent conflict/dramatic... and that is story.

A great overview book on this is THE ULTIMATE GUIDE TO VIDEO GAME WRITING & DESIGN.

As I write this, I am aware that I've never seen someone cry at the conclusion of a game because of the emotional content of the storyline... but it can... and will happen... And that player will not forget that game/story.
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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 17th Feb 2010 03:32
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Quote: "As I write this, I am aware that I've never seen someone cry at the conclusion of a game because of the emotional content of the storyline..."


With Heavy Rain coming out, that could all change...

I guess my advice would be to keep the story present at all times...Don't make the player sit through a three hour cutscene then cue mindless killing. Keep it there, through the UI or something.

"And we played the first thing that came to our heads...Just so happened to be... the best song in the world...

it was the best song in the world..."
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Thraxas
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Posted: 17th Feb 2010 04:44
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Quote: "As I write this, I am aware that I've never seen someone cry at the conclusion of a game because of the emotional content of the storyline...
"


I've heard plenty of people say they been moved to tears by games. Final Fantasy 7 being the game most cited.

Your signature has been [mod edited] :-p
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Gameprecursor
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 17:40
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Quote: "Quote: "As I write this, I am aware that I've never seen someone cry at the conclusion of a game because of the emotional content of the storyline...
"

I've heard plenty of people say they been moved to tears by games. Final Fantasy 7 being the game most cited.
"

I would have to agree with this part, my brother at the time was 8 and we beat it together, and he started bawling his eyes out when Aeris was killed.

Somehow, i laugh at that stuff...

Game-Precusor ownz
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Chris Redfield 2008
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 09:13
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Great input folks. Love hearing all of your thoughts on the subject...

P.S. where can I find this "ultiamte guide to video game writing and design"???

C.R. 2008

"Wether you think you can, or you think you cannot, you are usually right" - Henry Ford

DARKNESS IS COMING...2010... Where will you be?
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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 10:36
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You can find it on Amazon. The authors are Flinte Dille and John Platten.
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Chris Redfield 2008
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 10:58
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Quote: "You can find it on Amazon. The authors are Flinte Dille and John Platten."


Thankx. This should most definatly come in handy on my current project.

C.R. 2008

"Wether you think you can, or you think you cannot, you are usually right" - Henry Ford

DARKNESS IS COMING...2010... Where will you be?
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Marc Steene
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 16:24
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Quote: "I've heard plenty of people say they been moved to tears by games."


The end of Halo 3 had me moved (before it showed Master Chief alive)




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Spycrabz
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 22:50
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Quote: "I've heard plenty of people say they been moved to tears by games."


Metal Gear Solid 4.

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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 22:57
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Wow, I should play those games and see if tehy really are as moving as people say. So far the best ending I ever seen is in Shadow of the Colossus. That's what I call an ending!!!

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things that I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.
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DarkJames
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 23:33
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I've heard plenty of people say they been moved to tears by games.

Metal Gear Saga
Final fantasy saga

We are watching you
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Bugsy
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 23:37
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Mirror's Edge.



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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 21st Feb 2010 18:24
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MGS all the way.

I think it would be veery hard to have a story driven game... You'd need tons of HUDS... But, it is possible. Especially with stuff like PB.

"And we played the first thing that came to our heads...Just so happened to be... the best song in the world...

it was the best song in the world..."
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Camouflage Studios
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Posted: 21st Feb 2010 21:15
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Everyone, Halo 3 and Bioshock in my opinion have the best and most moving campaigns out of any FPS out there, when I saw master chief get "obliterated" before i knew what reallt happened there was a viod and i was really pissed! And once I left Rapture, I was upset that I would never get to go down there again until the second one came out and I bought it lol, really, both games you make you have great connections with the main characters and others.

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Samuellx3
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2010 19:26
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Quote: ""As I write this, I am aware that I've never seen someone cry at the conclusion of a game because of the emotional content of the storyline..."


Was sad when i finished Halo:3 Emotional ending and i thought that was going to be the end of the Halo series, it just diddn't feel right for an ending after the massive last level climax.

~ ViRaL =]
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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2010 00:24 Edited at: 28th Feb 2010 01:36
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Ok, so there are people who have emotional responses to games, but for the most part games are -- or have been -- exercises in skill, co-ordination, and endurance. In essence, games of the past have been a physical experience more than an emotional experience (ex. novels, film, music). No one expects a game of Monopoly to bring anyone to tears. With video gaming now able to simulate life so well, we now look for emotional content in those simulations...

If you are interested in a story-driven game, these are the most basic questions I would ask...

1) What makes my idea/story unique? Why is my story different and important to tell?

For instance, there are a million COD-type games on the market. What makes mine special? And if you're makinga story-driven game, the most unique aspect of your game -- the thing that makes it important to tell/play -- cannot be game mechanics. Mechanics are only the way to best illuminate the "special aspect" of your story. In essence, gameplay is good on the battlefield, but story is king in a story-driven game (ex. BROTHERS IN ARMS: HELL'S HIGHWAY).

2) Who is my main character for this game and how does he/she show the "special aspect" of this story?

***SPOILER ALERT***

Let's take a film example for this... AVATAR... the main character learns about the aliens, sees the terrible things done to them, changes his mind about them, and eventually helps them. He learns compassion... and gives up prejudice (the "special aspect" of the film). This same progression (or change) should happen in your character through the game.

***END SPOILER ALERT***

A problem many people make in games is creating a character who doesn't have much "character!" A game character must take action, so character is expressed through the things he/she will do. Ex. Ichabod Crane -- afraid of spirits -- wouldn't rasily take a night ride through the woods, while Van Helsing -- a vampire/spirit hunter -- would gladly take that same ride. Personality will determine actions taken, dialog spoken, and the way a plot unfolds. So, make your character interesting!

3) What is the overall conflict of this game/story? What is keeping your hero/heroine from achieving his/her goal?

Zombies, aliens, Nazis, etc... and what is causing it all? Who is behind it and why are they doing it?

These are the most basic story questions. Next time I'll write a little about story development during the game, movie, etc...
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General Jackson
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2010 00:50
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I had tears come to my eyes when the bastard Russian terrorist (carnt remember his name) in Call of Duty 4 kills Captain Price and Gaz.

I loved shooting him, that was awesome!

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Chris Redfield 2008
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2010 08:01
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@ CapnBuzz- Words of wisdom, my friend! It's quite obvious you share the same passion for Story-Driven games as I do.

C.R. 2008

"Wether you think you can, or you think you cannot, you are usually right" - Henry Ford

THE ART OF DARKNESS IS COMING... 2012
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Devastaor
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2010 08:51
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Quote: "I had tears come to my eyes when the bastard Russian terrorist (carnt remember his name) in Call of Duty 4 kills Captain Price and Gaz.

I loved shooting him, that was awesome!"


Quote: "Gaz: Who was that sir?
Captain Price: Zakhaev, Imran Zakhaev.
-Safehouse"
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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 24th Feb 2010 01:23 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2010 22:01
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Hy, just so everyone knows... I'm not a know-all about story... I've just done a lot of writing and have found these ideas to work for me.

Character.

Stories have a main character. This character creates the action. Ex. Jason journeys for the golden fleece, Luke Skywalker races to save Princess Leia, etc. Without this character taking on a mission, accepting a challenge, or searching for something, there is no story. The character must take action in order to accomplish a goal -- a "call to action." "Stories" where a main character take no action only tend to work well in novels (where a "story" can be an internal monologue).

So, for a game story you need a main character who will take a "call to action." In order for a main character to do this, they must have a personal reason for taking up that "call to action." Ex. Mario's girlfriend has been kidnapped by Donkey Kong, Luke Skywalker wants adventure (and to save the Princess) and then his aunt and uncle are killed! If your main character doesn't have a personal stake in the outcome of the story, you haven't picked the right main character for that story.

Growth. Your main character can stay the same emotionally throughout a story (Mario certainly doesn't change after he rescues his girlfriend), but to modern audiences that often rings as simple and fake. People change through conflicts. Luke Skywalker changes dramatically -- from an aimless, whining farm boy to a rebel freedom fighter... and ultimately a Jedi. The main character of AVATAR changes his entire disposition about the inhabitants of Pandora... even becoming one of them; you could apply this same sentence to the main character of DISTRICT 9. So, if you want an emotionally complex story, try to have your main character learn something about life through the conflict.

Ok, gotta run. Next post I'll talk about story structure...
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Chris Redfield 2008
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Posted: 25th Feb 2010 10:37
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Can't wait.

C.R. 2008

"Wether you think you can, or you think you cannot, you are usually right" - Henry Ford

THE ART OF DARKNESS IS COMING... 2012
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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 27th Feb 2010 22:16 Edited at: 28th Feb 2010 02:00
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STORY STRUCTURE.

So, you have an interesting character and a unique idea for a story. Now you have to plot the structure of that story...

Stories are divided into 3 ACTS (4 parts):

ACT I -- the introduction, set-up, and "call to action." This is where we would meet Luke Skywalker and the droids, Luke would learn about Leia's imprisonment, and ultimately he would heed his "call to action" after aunt and uncle were murdered by stormtroopers.

ACT II-- this is the act of conflict. It's broken into 2 parts (divided by a "midpoint").

ACT IIa is rising action brough about by the "call to action." If we are continuing with the STAR WARS example, this is where Luke and company leave Tatooine in a hail of lazer fire, get sucked into the Death Star, and end up chased, out-numbered, and being crushed in the "trash compactor." The conflict levels has risen through this whole section.

MIDPOINT comes at the bleakest point for our hero. The trash compactor scene is that in STAR WARS; Luke and company could have had their entire story ended, but with the droids' help everyone escapes to...

ACT IIb is where the main characters again take some control of the situation and have some hope. Luke and company fight their way out of the Death Star and hook up with the rebel base. It feels like a victory, but then the stakes are raised...

ACT III is where the hero and "bad guy" face off again, but with higher stakes... and the hero either wins or loses. This is where Luke and the X-wings attack the Death Star while the Death Star readies to destroy the rebel base!

Luke destroys the Death Star! THE END.

So, that's a basic rundown of story structure. Some people might say "But Tarantino doesn't use that structure!" Actually, his stories do follow this structure... just often parts of each act are told out of sequence. Yes, this story structure has been around since Aristotle... meaning it's how most humans process "story" most effectively.

Now, how do you tell a story in a game?

GAME STORY

Games are told in the present tense; they happen NOW! Also, they are usually task-oriented. That means levels are usually about completing tasks which lead to larger goals -- which deal directly with the points listed in the basic story structure above.

What does this mean?

Game level stories are about completing tasks (Ex. find ammunition for your gun, journey to the tower, destroy an 88 position). Each completed task/level then builds upon the last (and each is usually more difficult to accomplish than the last). After a number of tasks, the character/hero will move forward in the story structure... just like the hero does in a movie!

So, now we're up to the nuts-and-bolts of writing for games...
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JLMoondog
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Posted: 28th Feb 2010 01:07
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I love games that have an engaging story that really pull the player into it. One of my most tearful moments happened in Kingdom Hearts 2 right at the end of the Roxas opening. I was also surprised that even know I've known the character for 2-3hours, I cared that much about him to shed tears.

I honestly will not play a game if the story is crap. No matter how good the gameplay is, I wouldn't be able to play it.

Other great story driven games are MGS(as mentioned, Snake Eater was my favorite, the final boss fight was so hard to do emotionally), Halo, many J-RPG's(notably Legend of Dragoon and Final Fantasy, FF8 being my favorite because I'm a sucker for a good love story). Then there is Mass Effect, never in my life have I been so concerned about how the game NPC's would think of me then when playing this game, nor have I cared so much about a cast of game characters and world. Epic storytelling.

I'd say study up storytelling by just reading. CapnBuzz has a good breakdown for how to buildup your story. My 2 cents, get your story together, think about what you want the player to experience, and design how you'll implement it into the game. In the end, have fun!


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DarkJames
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2010 15:21
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why this doesnt get stickied ?

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The Master Dinasty
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2010 18:13
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Quote: "The end of Halo 3 had me moved (before it showed Master Chief alive) "


Lord Of the rings the last one made me cry... WHY why gandalf did you have to leave with frodo why?! its still makes me wanna cut myself.



-Massap2

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Marc Steene
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2010 18:45
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Quote: "Lord Of the rings the last one made me cry... "


I remember seeing that at the cinema. At the end, I was like:

"Oh my god, when the hell will this film end? It feels like my kidneys are about to burst".

Quote: "For instance, there are a million COD-type games on the market. "


Actually I think all the CoD games (Modern Warfare specificially) are unique...they seem to always be setting the standard for modern shooters. The first person cutscenes in MW2 are awesome...especially the bit when Shepard kills Roach and Ghost...that comes out of nowhere


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Bugsy
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2010 05:44
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It absolutely does come out of nowhere! the story makes no sense at all!

spoiler alert



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Devastaor
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2010 09:29 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2010 09:30
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Quote: "spoiler alert





"

Spoiler Alert
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DarkJames
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 00:02
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Quote: "so what happened to makarov??"


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Shadowtroid
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Nothing right now. He's still there...FOR MW3!!

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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 07:00
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Nice CapnBuzz!

That's what I think made Half-Life 2 for me, propably the best game there is! It's story driven and very movie like at some points. I just love that game!

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things that I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.
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CapnBuzz
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Thanks!

I've been reading different views on the role of story in games (quite often there's some interesting articles on this at Gamasutra). Some designers build everything upon story... some build a world and fit a story into it. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? Both are valid, but for my taste, the egg -- story -- is the essence of a game.

To illustrate the "story arc" or plot advancement of a story that I posted last time, I thought it might make more sense if in this thread we took a story idea and developed the arc.

Anyone have a basic idea for a story that you want structured into its 3 acts?
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Shadowtroid
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Howsabout Avatar?

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Bugsy
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Chris Redfield 2008
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Excellent. I now have the basis for writng my story!

C.R. 2008

"Wether you think you can, or you think you cannot, you are usually right" - Henry Ford

THE ART OF DARKNESS IS COMING... 2012
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Marc Steene
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Bugsy, I'll do some quotes to try and explain it.

"5 Years ago, I lost 30,000 men in the blink of an eye. And the world just ******* watched"

This is a reference to the nuke which detonated in MW. He lost a good part of his men there, and it seemed no one was interested in him.

Why did he kill Roach and Ghost? He wanted to take credit for claiming the DSM by himself so he could become a war hero. Meanwhile, he sends Price and Soap on a false trail.


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Chris Redfield 2008
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Posted: 20th Mar 2010 06:59
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BUMP.

Note to any Mod that reads this: Do you mind making this a Sticky Thread? I found the information in this thread to be very helpful, and Im sure others will find it use for it as well. Thankx.

C.R. 2008

"Wether you think you can, or you think you cannot, you are usually right" - Henry Ford

THE ART OF DARKNESS IS COMING... 2012
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Bugsy
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Posted: 20th Mar 2010 07:06 Edited at: 20th Mar 2010 07:07
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Quote: "This is a reference to the nuke which detonated in MW. He lost a good part of his men there, and it seemed no one was interested in him."


cool, it totally makes sense that we were supposed to know that and he wasn't even referenced ONCE in MW1.

also, right after the nuke... happened... in mw1, didn't price and the boys quickly move on al-asad, and then found out it was zachaev, and then moved on him? so no, the world participated in killing the nukers, they didn't just watch


also, I'm definately down with this thread being stickied and all of the story posts moved into the first post.


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