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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Polly limit?

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orcblood
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 19:35
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Hi Im new to DBPro but I really love how easy it is. I am planing on making a high-end game and I was wondering if I could do it on DBPro. Is there any polly limit? Or can I go as high as I want?

Thanks,
orcblood
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Rob K
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 19:38
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As high as your PC (processor / graphics card) will allow.


BLUE GUI Plugin: http://blue.robert-knight.net
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orcblood
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 19:42
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Ahh thanks! Thats great news. Whiew I thought I was in trouble there lol.

orcblood
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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 20:06
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*In steps sceptic number 1*

What do you mean exactly by high-end game? Make a comparison with a commercial title.

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!
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orcblood
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 23:22
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It would be about Half-Life 2 level. Lots of action, effects, and big levels.

orcblood
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Fallout
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 03:30
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You need to set your sights on something back a few generations. Think of something like Quake3 and (you would still be the first to achieve it) that's remotely possible in dbpro. DBPro cannot make anything to get anywhere near living up to Half Life 2.

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!
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Preston C
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 03:33
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Quote: "DBPro cannot make anything to get anywhere near living up to Half Life 2.
"


Actually, with enough patience, and some major skill with other languages (mainly C++), its possible for Dark Basic Pro to be enhanced enough to make games as such.


Dark Basic Pro has arived! I can feel the power!
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MikeS
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 03:40
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Omega is right.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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Fallout
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 04:53
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While typing my previous post, I was going to mention how, whenever some says "it can't be done in dbpro" someone else always has to say "actually, its possible if ...". I thought I could get away with saying Half Life 2 can't be done in db, but obviously not. I thought I was being optimistic by saying you could make Q3 in dbpro, seeing as BSP support is still very slow in db.

Lets ignore all the C++ business, and the coding miricles and give it to this guy straight. You can't make HL2 or anything remotely similar in dbpro. It's not really fair to hint to someone HL2 is possible in dbpro when you all know it isn't without pretty much coding the whole thing exclusively in another language and also being a damn good pro coder too.

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!
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Preston C
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 06:31
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Fallout, its possible all right. None of us has ever had the guts to actually try and achieve this though. Maybe orcblood may be the first one to actually achieve it. I'm looking forward to the day when someone just steps up, and says they've recreated Half-Life 2 in Dark Basic Pro.


Dark Basic Pro has arived! I can feel the power!
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Mussi
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 14:59
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yup, it's possible, gonna needs some uber-skills though, I'm making a FPS and strafing to a bit better graphics then Q3 which isn't that hard... for now at least. remember that half life 2 isn't only made in C++, they used a lot of programmes to achieve the effects they have. I think you should start at making really nice shaders to get a bit of a HL2 look. but like fallout said you have to do most of the coding outside DB

Specs: AMD Athlon 1800, 256 DDRRam 266mhz, 80GB HD 7200rmp U133, Geforce 4 Ti4400 128mb ddr sdram
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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 15:09
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If you ignore the shaders then HL2 would be creatable in DBPro without any externals. The levels and gameplay would be possible, its just a few graphical effects. You could still have the polycount the same, and textures just as high in res. The shaders aren't possible in DBP but can be created in separate programs and used in DBP. The most difficulat thing to recreate would be the phyisics, but thats more to do with programming skill than software limitations

Quikly Studio Pro. Soon. Honest.
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Rob K
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 15:27
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@orcblood

Your own coding skills will limit you way before DBPro does.


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Dreamora
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 21:35
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and the little fact that the engine is damned slow but this is some mystery that our great coders omega etc will learn about when they try to setup just 1 effect of HL in realtime.
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flibX0r
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Location: Western Australia
Posted: 15th Sep 2003 07:54
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@orcblood

Please don't fall into the trap of trying to make your first game your best game. Try and make a simpler project and get your skills up first and then try for the best. Worked for me. I'll tell you after December 31st if it paid off as i play my sweet ass game on my new ALIENWARE compo computer lol

I can't do that.
The king of he potato people won't let me.
Current Project: "Jelly Wars : Episode 2" entry for alienware compo
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adr
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Posted: 15th Sep 2003 13:55
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Quote: "I thought I could get away with saying Half Life 2 can't be done in db, but obviously not."

As I read your first reply, I was thinking the same thing.

I'm gonna have to agree with Fallout here.

I think some of you overestimate DBP's strength. Has anyone actually made a game which pushes this engine? Of course, anyone can make a 2000 spheres on matrix demo, but that's a different environment - you're not comparing like with like.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good engine, but it's a jack-of-all-trades engine. How can something which is designed to be an all rounder be as good as the latest in cutting edge engine technology? Think about it - There's a reason valve's best efforts at an engine will set you back a million quid, and you get DBP for £50.

Now that sounded bad. I apologise if I caused offense to Lee and his bread winner. I wish I could do what he's done, both on an enterprising and the technical level. He's livin the dream man, but I'm sure he's well aware that his engine, given the size of the development team, will always be one step behind id's latest offering.

Phew....

I think RobK is on the right lines. DBP's greatest falling, as far as impressing the neighbours goes, is its userbase. Pitch a product at non-programmers and your core user demographic is going to be non-programmers.


</rant>

Please don't hurt me.

*puts his flame proof jacket on*

A wise man once said: "I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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Dreamora
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Posted: 15th Sep 2003 15:08
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sorry adr but the engine is about 4 steps behind ID and Valve and do you want to know why?

Their engine is able to perform a lot of effects through programmed technics, not just use of new graphicsadapter abilities like DBP.

I wouldn't be able to make something like DBP but I know too that a lot of it's "want to be cool" features are just DX inbuild things, nothing special at all.
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adr
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Posted: 15th Sep 2003 21:04
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Christ man, talk about pedantic.

I didn't realise "steps" were a well defined quantative amount.

A wise man once said: "I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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haggisman
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Posted: 15th Sep 2003 21:25
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Quote: "Their engine is able to perform a lot of effects through programmed technics, not just use of new graphicsadapter abilities like DBP.
"


So whats the difference between the new FX system and their programmed technics?
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 15th Sep 2003 22:03
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It is possible to make a reasonable half life esque game in DBPro, you could even address some of the flaws in Halflife and make a game that has some elements which are technically superior to the Valve effort.

However your final result will only be as good as your are at programming.

For instance you could make levels that are graphically superior to Halflifes with a good modeller, there's some excellent modellers in this community and indeed one Apollo member recently attained a job with Rockstar North (Soyuz). You could also make levels that are larger than Halflife's levels, my old DBPro based TS engine demonstrates similar techniques that could be used to do this.

You could recreate some of the existing Half life special effects, and you could write some of your own that may or may not be better.

It certainly is possible to make a Half Life like game. The question is, are you as good at programming as the Valve team are? I doubt any of us are.

Pneumatic Dryll
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 15th Sep 2003 22:22
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Additional, there is a poly limit per object of 65,535 vertices. If you need to exceed this then you could break the object down into 2 pieces and DBP will be happy to keep on grinding, infact as you can have up to 65,535 object that makes a total polycount limit of 4,294,836,225. I don't think you'd get that many polys to appear onscreen at anything like a useable framerate mind you.

Pneumatic Dryll
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Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 16th Sep 2003 03:38
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but it not just a the face that you have 4,294,836,225 is the max number of poly. how long do you think it will take to render the screen i think you get a 0.001 fps on a nomael pc

two thing stop you makeing a HL2 in DBpro skill and time.
yes you my be as good as Valve best programer but HL2 take 7 years and how may programers were working on it 15,25,40? if you add it up it alot of man hours.

--Dr 0--
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Preston C
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Posted: 16th Sep 2003 03:51
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Quote: "and the little fact that the engine is damned slow but this is some mystery that our great coders omega etc will learn about when they try to setup just 1 effect of HL in realtime. "


FINALLY, I'M A GREAT CODER!!!! CELEBRATION!!!!

*Gives cake to everybody and free baloons*


Dark Basic Pro has arived! I can feel the power!
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DMXtra
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 02:19
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1) There is supposed to be a speed increase for BSP's in 5.1 or so it says, I have just got my computer back from the shop. Check out 5.1 and see for yourself.

2) Not just BSP's, but also Octree's with advanced portal abilities and pixel/vertex shading and then advanced high speed collision. I know I keep typing this, but this second item is very, very, very, very important as far as static geometry. You can create huge worlds with this and without converting any of your .x models. Just load in and go, no conversion needed--unlike BSP formats.

3) BSP support will still be improved, but its not easy to create BSP's. Mike is working on improving the .X to BSP converter quite a bit. However, BSP's require a lot of work and knowledge to get working for anything, not just DBPro. BSPs are important, but not just quake 3 type BSPs, but other newer forms of BSPs as well.

4) There are other things going on that I can't talk about it, but I will put it this way, good things are coming and I can see why you would think that DBpro can't hack it, but things are improving and things that are being worked on are important for the future of DBPro and gaming making in general.

I am more and more excited about the future of DBPro, sure it has had a rough start, but things are clearly coming into focus.

5) If you need BSP help there is a tutorial somewhere around the forums that shows you step by step on how to create a working BSP for DBPro.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
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DrakeX
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 04:30
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"There are other things going on that I can't talk about it"

would you PLEASE tell me WHY you can't tell us about this? NDA expired more than a year ago.. is there really a reason?

stop looking at me!
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DMXtra
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 13:54
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Drake, tis another NDA for something related to DBPro, but not DBPro itself.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
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