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Geek Culture / Pirates

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Rye
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Location: United Kingdom, Blackrod
Posted: 14th Sep 2003 03:13
Has anyone ever noticed how many people have copied software. Loads of people have 3DS MAX, there's one guy in the 3D section who is a cheapskate looking for free 3d modeling progs when he has $3500 of 3ds max 4, something dodgy there.

I'm not surprised 3dmax has such a high price coz most people just get a pirated version off the net. I bet its only legit companies that buy it.

How many of you have pirate software??? (stupid question i doubt anyone is gonna admit, but there may be a few crazy people)
Preston C
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Location: Penn State University Park
Posted: 14th Sep 2003 03:26 Edited at: 14th Sep 2003 17:12
[Edit] Found out that Finale Notepad 2003 was a free program, stupid me


Dark Basic Pro has arived! I can feel the power!
Ian T
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 03:38
Is it just me, or is this a prime candadite for the next lock

Discussion of illegal activities including pirating software is a breach of the AUP you signed when you joined this forum.

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MikeS
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 03:43
Who knows, maybe he got 3D max 4 at a student discount, or it was a gift from a friend.

Has anyone ever noticed how easy it is too make assumptions.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 03:46
There are two major problems with pirating.

First, pirating is what causes the high prices. It's not "I won't buy the game/software at all because of the high price", that's usually a load of bull. People don't buy some things because they are lazy, don't want to have to drive to a store 20 minutes away, go through all the effort, and not everyone has a credit card to pay online. The companies lose money over this, they lose sales and profit and have to up the price.

The second problem is that with high end programs, the average user isn't going to buy 3ds max even if it only costs 500$. Most of us non-corporate exucitives cannot afford things over certain prices, and I'll be damned if parents/relitaves are going to fork over a few grand so that we have a new computer toy. I'm saying that WITHOUT pirating, there is NO WAY any of the aspiring 3d graphic users could devote the required amount of time to projects to make good results outside of formal schooling. If we could never get our favorite program, I think it would kill off a lot of the industry.

So there's our paradox, we're building genius kids with pirated programs, but we're killing the industry.

Personally, 3ds max 5 came with my computer (don't ask), but aside from that my only real pirated/downloaded program is Fruit Loops. I payed for Acid 3.0 and Cakewalk, for Half Life and Corel Photopaint and Giants Kabuto and Tribes 2 and Starcraft and Alice and all those good things. I got AutoCAD from my school as well as ProD. I find ways around pirating as I'm anti-pirate myself. I prefer the yarrrrrr pirates to the digital pirates.

Preston C
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 03:48
oops, forgot to read the terms and agreements *doh*

Have mercy Rich, Have mercy!!!


Dark Basic Pro has arived! I can feel the power!
MikeS
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 03:53
Quote: " I'm saying that WITHOUT pirating, there is NO WAY any of the aspiring 3d graphic users could devote the required amount of time to projects to make good results outside of formal schooling."


Then what the heck is Gmax for?

A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 04:48
I do a lot more actual graphic rendering than modeling. Until DBP gets here, I'm not making optomized models for games, I'm making perdy pictures with all of Max 5's new graphic goodies.

randi
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 04:57
I work at a school.
I can get Max 5 for $500.
Bryce 5 for $50.
Poser 5 for $200.
People Putty for $50.

Flash MX for $100.
Photoshop 7 for $300.

Just to name a few.


Plus you can get stuff on Ebay cheap too.

It's not impossible to have legal expensive software.

Plystire
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 05:24 Edited at: 14th Sep 2003 05:27
I'm not saying it's GOOD to rip companies off by downloading their software and using cracks for them.

I read something somewhere that most companies that are supposedly losing millions of dollars from pirated software could buy out every Target and Wal-Mart stores in the entire US. So really, I don't feel sorry for them.

~PlystirE~

[EDIT]
I have pirated software, but woopidity-doo! (3DSMax4, Maya, PS, etc. for those who care)
Eric T
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 05:47
Quote: "my Finale Notepad 2003 is pirated "



errrrrr... its a free program.... lmfao http://www.finalemusic.com/

Working on 4 projects 2 RPG(programming texturing and 3d map), 1 3rd person shooter (Programming), and a special project.
Preston C
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 06:00
it is

And they've been sending me emails about how it costs $200 too!?!?!?

OK, nevermind


Dark Basic Pro has arived! I can feel the power!
Arrow
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 06:50
Quote: "I read something somewhere that most companies that are supposedly losing millions of dollars from pirated software could buy out every Target and Wal-Mart stores in the entire US."
errr... Walmart is the largest corparation in the world, the average store makes makes well over $1,000,000 a month. Some stores get $100,000 a day. I highly doubt a software company (which was a very low proft percentage compared to other kinda of bussinesses) could even buy a single Wal-Mart store. I advise you to stop quoting comic books when in a serious conversation.

Piracy is bad, I admit I've done it a few times, but those programs are long gone, and they were never as expencive as Max. I buy my high end software of E-Bay, I just recently got an unregistered retail copy of Photoshop 7.0 for a mere $75. There is no reason to pirate software.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
the_winch
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 11:15
Of course there are lots of people here with pirated copies of max, most of the users here are kids who struggle to get the money for a copy of darkbasic.
You only have to look at the number of posts in from people useing cheaper or free alternatives to realise there are also a lot of people who don't use pirate software.

It's been around as long as programs have been for sale and I doubt it is that much more common now. Since it has been around for ever it is impossible to say if it is good or bad, it's not like you can look at an old program that sold a million copies then look at the updated version that only sold 100,000 because piracy started before it's release.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 12:27
Plystire and anyone else who posts in this thread naming the titles of pirated software they've got - edit it out or I'll delete your entire message. You are in direct breach of the AUP. I'll give you 48 hours.

Quote: "Who knows, maybe he got 3D max 4 at a student discount, or it was a gift from a friend.
Has anyone ever noticed how easy it is too make assumptions."


You could use the innocent until proven guilty tactic, yes.. but let's face it - you're in clooud cuckoo land if you honestly believe this to be the case for every single person here who has 3DS on their machine. Look at the demographics, look at the cost of the software (even in student form!), they don't add up.

Gift from Kazaa more like.

Piracy does and always will hurt the industry. For every knocked off copy of DarkBASIC we loose money, it's as simple as that. More importantly those using copies are, quite frankly taking the piss. Does that mean I've never had pirated software on my machine? Well no, I couldn't claim that. But on my work (and main) PC - I own it all and I register every little shareware app I find invaluable because those guys deserve it. I know some people just can't afford this and when I was younger I'd copy games/etc by the bucketload too. But hopefully it's something you grow out of. It is stealing though, no matter what angle you put on it.

Cheers,

Rich

The sky above the port was the colour of television, tuned to a dead channel.
Your brain's just like any other appliance: it works better if you plug it in...
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 14:52
Whilst personally I don't believe in Pirating software is "right" I think 3dsmax is a bad example.

It is arguable that Discreet almost rely on piracy in a way, being that a program like 3dsmax survives on its reputation as the industry standard. The more people that are familiar with it and use it, the more likely major companies are going to use it. Obviously any company using it professionally are going to buy full version, with multi-user liscences, many copies, many plug-ins etc, probably spending tens or even hundreds of thousands.

Almost everybody using a pirated version of 3dsmax is a person who can't afford a full version, so discreet have lost no money there. If that person ever does become an expert in the software, they will either go freelance and therefore save up and buy a full version later down the line, or apply for a job with a company who uses legal versions.

I'm not saying they don't loose money through piracy, but what I AM saying is that through them having the widest userbase, they become the market leader and industry standard, and gain many large, legitimate sales they would otherwise not have got through a small ammount of genuine sales. The same applies to Photoshop. Both programs hardly need cracking, are available in numerous places for download in many forms (heck even the magazine demos which are widely distributed only take maybe 5 minutes of websearching to find a simple, easy patch or key-gen ), and neither company genuinely tries to stop it, possibly for the reasons I stated above.

HOWEVER - personally I think a much better way for them to do business would be to either reduce the price of their software completely, or even better, to do an OEM style deal, like Microsoft have with their operating systems. Plus, give them free to schools, colleges and Unis so people grow up knowing how to use them and they could have market domination with little or no need to survive by illegal means.

Personally I would say to people, anyone wanting to make games who can't afford 3dsmax and Photoshop, BUY MILKSHAPE AND PAINTSHOP PRO! There really is no need to use overpowered, over-rated software illegally. If you ever become skilled enough to make full use of 3dsmax and photoshop, you will be able to get paid enough to buy legal copies, trust me

Now, PLEASE nobody flame me, I am not condoning piracy, piracy of 99% of software or games can completely kill off small, talented companies or individuals and is inexcusable. But personally I don't really think that an illegal copy of MAX or Photoshop is a castratable offense, just a misguided attempt at looking like you know what you're doing when you'll never actually fully understand or use the product to a value of anything over a cheaper or even free package

And yes, I do own legal copies of 3dsmax4&5 and Photoshop6&7 Plus PSP4,5,6&7 and Milkshape too, still great packages I use almost every day

Quikly Studio Pro. Soon. Honest.
Dave J
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 15:33
Quote: "Almost everybody using a pirated version of 3dsmax is a person who can't afford a full version, so discreet have lost no money there."


Exactly. And even if they were going to buy a package, chances are they wouldn't save up for 3dsmax but probably just get Milkshape or another.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 16:01
Indeed. Milkshape Rocks

Its at about this point that I'd like to add how clever some pirates can be, and very accurate. I mean, who'd have thought that anybody could create a lifesized convincing reproduction of the entire Carribean?

Quikly Studio Pro. Soon. Honest.
lagmaster
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 16:29
personally i think for piracy to disappear you need to crackdown on the street traders in asia that sell the stock dirt cheap.

some people like to test programs without the "demo" attached to it, to see what it is fully like.

if you use the software almost on a daily basis, just buy it and that will help the developer.

lagmasteruk - http://www.lagmaster.net/ r.nash@ntlworld.com
specs: 1.2ghz athlon, 384mb ram, geforce 2 mx 400 (32mb),win2k
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 16:36
Quote: "It's not "I won't buy the game/software at all because of the high price", that's usually a load of bull. People don't buy some things because they are lazy,"


oh yea thats true, i probably have 3000$ or so under my sofa cushins

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 16:51
Quote: "oh yea thats true, i probably have 3000$ or so under my sofa cushins"


That's the big moral dilemma isn't it - if you don't have the money to buy the software, what gave you the right to steal it?

Cheers,

Rich

The sky above the port was the colour of television, tuned to a dead channel.
Your brain's just like any other appliance: it works better if you plug it in...
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 16:52
Quote: "just buy it and that will help the developer"

there it goes again, that casual "just buy it, or its the right thing to do" get it through your DarkBASIC filled head! I said it before and I'll say it again! Some of us don't have sacks of bills lieing around the place. I know that maybe half of the ppl here are still students and probably could have had trouble even tring to afford DarkBASIC! I know i have.

My site is delyaed for the 250th time!
If life is just one big joke...
then I must have missed the punchline.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 16:53
Then I ditto my post above to this one! Get it through your head, it's piracy, it's theft? The difference is, you don't care because unlike walking into a shop and stealing, it's a lot harder to be arrested and charged for it.

Cheers,

Rich

The sky above the port was the colour of television, tuned to a dead channel.
Your brain's just like any other appliance: it works better if you plug it in...
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 17:13
I dont remember the last time I gave 1 third of a rats' ass. The kangaroo made more sense then you rich. I admit I may own a few cracked programs but I do not distribute it and I do not sell it. I may not know much about this subject either but I still highly doubt that I will be arrested and charged for simply owning one of these programs.

My site is delyaed for the 250th time!
If life is just one big joke...
then I must have missed the punchline.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 17:26
Quote: "I dont remember the last time I gave 1 third of a rats' ass."


Exactly my point. You see not being able to afford it as the excuse to copy it. Software (and to an extent music and films) are the only things to suffer from this. You wouldn't steal a car for example, yet they can cost way more than the price of 3DS, you'd buy something more in line with your budget. But those common-sense rules fly out the window re: software. There is no excuse for it, it's just the way it is. Doesn't mean it's right though.

Cheers,

Rich

The sky above the port was the colour of television, tuned to a dead channel.
Your brain's just like any other appliance: it works better if you plug it in...
Arrow
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 17:50
Quote: "Some of us don't have sacks of bills lieing around the place."
Then buy Milkshape. Sure Max and Maya are far better and I could get then of Kazaa in half a shake of a leg, but I don't. I choose to buy something I could aford and learn it. I saw photoshop in a number of computer related sites so I search for it on Ebay. Bam, I got Photoshop 6 for $100, and I just bought 7 for even less. I didn't steal it. Max sells as low as $100 on Ebay, quite whining about price.

Sooner or later someone's gonna point out that I said I have Kazaa, so I'll clear that up now. I use it to download Anime Music Videos, home movies (guy getting hit in nuts, guy going nuts on DDR, ect...), and other non-commercial forms of media.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
lagmaster
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 18:02
Quote: "there it goes again, that casual "just buy it, or its the right thing to do" get it through your DarkBASIC filled head! I said it before and I'll say it again! Some of us don't have sacks of bills lieing around the place. I know that maybe half of the ppl here are still students and probably could have had trouble even tring to afford DarkBASIC! I know i have."


i dont have wads of cash either, but i put a side money for the software that i use a lot of. my annual income is less than the tax man can cash in on.

btw my head isnt filled with darkbasic, as you've noticed i've been away a while now and i'm returning for good!

lagmasteruk - http://www.lagmaster.net/ r.nash@ntlworld.com
specs: 1.2ghz athlon, 384mb ram, geforce 2 mx 400 (32mb),win2k
Ian T
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 18:18
' I know some people just can't afford this and when I was younger I'd copy games/etc by the bucketload too. But hopefully it's something you grow out of. It is stealing though, no matter what angle you put on it.'

Well said...

If I find out someone I know has pirated a game or a copy of Office, I'm not going to get all that annoyed. I don't pirate software-- any more, I certainly used to once-- but if a friend of mine downloaded his copy of Unreal Tournament it's no big deal to me, it won't kill Epic. If I find out that half the games on their machine are copied, I may comment on the fact or perhaps explain how piracy hurts software companies. I think most of us do grow out of it, really.

If I find out they have stolen or are going to steal from a smaller developer or company, however, I will get pretty angry. It's those developers that need the money from every copy the most, and it's them I feel it is most important to keep supporting.

My two cents.

Oh, and so much for the AUP thing-- that's what comes of it when I don't really read it either

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball
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MikeS
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 18:28
@Kangaroo2 BETA2

Well put in your earlier post Kang.

@Rich

Quote: "You could use the innocent until proven guilty tactic, yes.. but let's face it - you're in clooud cuckoo land if you honestly believe this to be the case for every single person here who has 3DS on their machine."


Yea, I understand that. I can't honostly believe my parents or a good friend would buy me something like that. You never know though, but it may be 1 out of 1000 cases where something like that happens.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
UberTuba
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 20:29
personally i dont see why any1 would use 3ds max exept for movies.
milkshape is quick and easy to use, and requires little experience,
but you can still very high amounts of detail. Sure you can't do
very complex stuff (like csg)but 99% of the time your not gonna need
that anyway. and sure 3ds max has got the advantage on higher polygon models, but whose gonna notice if a character
has a 3 polygon cheek or a 30 polygon cheek. in movies, ok, but whose
gonna make a movie with that kind of detail exept big companies who can afford the software.

the artist formally known as darkfluff
MikeS
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 20:32
Quote: "personally i dont see why any1 would use 3ds max"


It's all based on what you like. You can get the same results with wings3d as in max(to some extent). It depends on how much time you put into your work. Max has more tools, which can get the job down quicker though, in many cases. I wish, and I hope wings3d will get some kind of animation going sometime soon. I'll have to check there website, and see what the latest updates are.(Havn't checked in about 2 months.)




A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
Ian T
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 20:41
'personally i dont see why any1 would use 3ds max exept for movies.'

Because it's the best 3d development tool out there? There is a reason it is THE professional choise. It's used by Bethesda Softworks and Blizzard for every single thing 3d, in-game and video, and that's just off the top of my head. It requires more skill and expirience than other packages, but it's worth it.

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Eric T
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 21:44
Quote: "I admit I may own a few cracked programs but I do not distribute it and I do not sell it. I may not know much about this subject either but I still highly doubt that I will be arrested and charged for simply owning one of these programs.
"


Well actually, you could. If it were found that you have access to said programs on kazaa, and said programs are still in the "My Shared Folder" of the accused, then programs are still distrubutible, and the Canadian Goverment has the right to fine you as they deem fit. Fines will usually total at price of programs multiplyed by 3.

Working on 4 projects 2 RPG(programming texturing and 3d map), 1 3rd person shooter (Programming), and a special project.
BatVink
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 22:21 Edited at: 14th Sep 2003 22:22
There's a few companies taking quite a good line on this. Maya PLE is a good example, you can use their software for free, with limitations on the output and their logo watermarked.

If you are using it privately, this shouldn't be an issue. If you are using it commercially, then it's only right that you pay the proprietors of the software their due. Even if you aren't making hard cash, any personal gain should pass the gain back up the food chain. (too many "ain"s methinks!)

Rich, does the school version of DB display the logo on the final output? I think this would be a fair trade-off, as they are getting it FOC.

Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 22:58
Yellow: Thanks

And as for Liquid's lasy point, he's exactly right. Occassionly I download something from Kazaa, usually when I can't find them anywhere else. However I can't imagine who is stupid enough to incriminate themselves by putting copyrighted material in their shared folder - its incriminating yourself because you are suddenly distributing it: Like the difference between smokin and dealing I guess lol (Of course, if nobody shared their files there would be no downloads available, so it may be thatr if there are enough high profile cases of people being prosecuted for what is in their shared folder, then p2p networks will simply stop sharing illegal software, music and video files.

This would obviously be good. But hold up, in a way, that would be a shame, as I have often downloaded things that I have tried to purchase legitimately, only to be told "no you can't buy that anymore" Not in the eyes of the law, but personally, if someone isn't going to make a profit from something anymore, who cares if you get it for free? Its no morally worse than buying it second hand in a shop or on Ebay, either way the original publishers get no money, and second hand dealers are certainly legal Maybe the solution would be to make it illegal to share anything which is still being internationally published?

Quikly Studio Pro. Soon. Honest.
Rob K
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 23:06
The software market will always have something to suit your budget. The "I can't afford" stuff is nonsense.

Can't afford 3DSMax? Get MilkShape.

Can't afford DarkBASIC Pro? Get DarkBASIC v1.

Can't afford OfficeXP? Get OpenOffice.

MikeS
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 23:15
There should really be no reason why you should have to pirate DB/DBP. If you have a cpu, you can probebly afford DB/DBP. Make your own modeling programs and every other application you need with DB. Unlimited possibilites folks. Plus, there's plenty of free programs out there. I can honostly say, that I've never pirated any software. It makes me angry when I work so hard to get the software I want by working, where other people just hit the "download" button. Read Kang2's post (check his first post), he made some good points.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
Eric T
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 23:45
or maybe you can save up money in a bank account, and just use a trial version and some tutorials for a while, so by the time you get the full version, you may have some understanding of what you are buying.

Working on 4 projects 2 RPG(programming texturing and 3d map), 1 3rd person shooter (Programming), and a special project.
Rye
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 23:59
I have to claim lazyness. I didn't read the agreement for this forum I am very sorry. (i knew there was something about talking about illigal activities but my post was aimed at discussing pirating so i thought it was ok)

BUT.. i dont have much copied software. i haven't got 3ds max, PSP, photoshop or most of the software named in the above posts. I disagree with most pirating. I do make exceptions. for example music. Music is a big thing for me and i like more music than i can afford, so i copy my mates CDs etc... i reckon this is alright because i still buy as much music as my wallet allows. I know its stealing but the only alternative is not having the music, and that jsut wouldnt work.

As for software, it took me a very long time to save up for DBP. Some people just dont have money. Its a fact. If people who are broke cant afford the software they want/need then they should use freeware. Or the demo until they can afford it, and just put up with restrictions.

At the moment with uni coming up and my mother forgeting to post the student loan form which means i dont have a single penny to spend, i wouldnt be able to afford even the cheapest 3D prog. so i make do with the freeware ones (not that i use them much), and they arent all that good.
Ian T
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Posted: 15th Sep 2003 00:07
'i knew there was something about talking about illigal activities but my post was aimed at discussing pirating so i thought it was ok'

Chances are it is okay and I just overreacted. No offense meant .

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Arrow
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Posted: 15th Sep 2003 17:58 Edited at: 15th Sep 2003 17:59
Quote: "reckon this is alright because i still buy as much music as my wallet allows"
Think of it this way, someone needs 50 pieces of bread, and you along with a google of other people sell it. The man only has enough for 40 loafs so he steals the other ten from varrious stands, one of them is yours. Does it make you feel any better that he spent his money on others bread but not yours?


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Ian T
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Posted: 15th Sep 2003 18:50
From a selfish point of view you wouldn't feel better, but it's still helping the world more in that aspect.

As far as I'm concerned the music industry is an awful thing at its current state. I download just about every bit of music I listen too, and I'm not ashamed of it. If it's hurting the industry, it's good in my book.

Share On

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lagmaster
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Posted: 15th Sep 2003 22:55
the music industry have brought this problem on themself and they are trying every way to make some money from it.

artist cd album, retail value £10
various cd album, retail value £15-20
cd singles - £4

you work the figures out, you would need a highly paid job to keep up with the albums and singles.

if they thought of asking a dollar for a mp3 when the internet started, most file sharing programs would not exist now (well probably not as many as there are now).

i listen to a weekly trance show (based in holland), if the internet didnt exist, how would i be able to listen to it?, but the only 2 ways i can listen to it, is find a online radio station or wait a few days later for a mp3 of it.

if i remember correctly a few artists support mp3, while more just dont like them.

but you have to think of mp3 in another way. how can you promote a up and coming band in no time at all? release a mp3. because you think the time it takes to start a band, do gigs in your local area, hope to get a break getting bigger gigs and hope to get a record label deal.

i'll leave the jury to decide on that debate.

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Damokles
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Posted: 15th Sep 2003 23:43
And just one question : Why did those industries not sue as much as now, people who cpied from tape to tape in the eighties ?

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Arrow
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Posted: 16th Sep 2003 06:15
Having MP3s isn't illegal, nor is having a tape copy, however selling or freely distributing them is. While I don't care for them ethier, you're really hurting the artists here. There are also many independant record lables that are hurt by MP3 sharing. Syncromesh Audio is one of them, they play underground music over the radio and sell cds, most of them under $10. MP3 sharing really hurts these liitle guys who are trying to make an honest buck.


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Ian T
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Posted: 16th Sep 2003 06:42
Having mp3s isn't illegal; downloading them is. You don't have to keep them in your shared folder to make it a crime. It's just one that's hard to find out about.

Yes, file sharing is hurting the artists. However, it is currently the main thing that is damaging the industry-- obviously, after the industry falls apart, there's going to be a kind of post-holocaust for the music artists, but a fresh start is what the industry needs. Preferably something where the artists are the ones on top, not the ones with a strangehold on their work.

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MicroMan
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Posted: 16th Sep 2003 10:42
Those of you that advocate piracy. I can't understand it. I truly can't.

You all want to make games, and have that as a job - right? But that's not going to be possible if you perpetuate theft of software. It means you accept that your games, your work, your sweat and toil, gets stolen.

Any serious programmer that advocate piracy is sawing off the branch we're all sitting on. It makes it harder for all of us to be successful at what we do. And if we can't live on it, all of us are going to drift away in the end, and everything will stop.

-----
They SAID that given enough time a million monkeys with typewriters could recreate the collected works of William Shakespeare... Internet sure proved them wrong.
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Damokles
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Posted: 16th Sep 2003 20:03
Quote: "Having MP3s isn't illegal, nor is having a tape copy, however selling or freely distributing them is"


You really think all the guys who had these copyied tapes, owned the original ?
So there was some person, who was sharing his tape

Quote: "You all want to make games, and have that as a job - right? But that's not going to be possible if you perpetuate theft of software. It means you accept that your games, your work, your sweat and toil, gets stolen."


I don't want it to be my job. I really like what I am doing right now ! And how can you steal somthing I would give away for free ?

"Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop." - Lewis Carroll
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 04:42
i have only one thng to say: WHO CARES.
The ppl who own cracked games and software dont not care.
The ppl who own mp3s and such dont care
the ppl who own ROMS that they dont really own dont care.
People say its wrong and say its hurting the industry but deep down they dont really give that big of a hoot. Most just think "hey its not my problem, everyone else is doing it" They beleave it doesnt concern them, after all they are just one person. Even if some of you really do care , then wat would you be willing to do about it?

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Eric T
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 04:52
Quote: "WHO CARES"


well, the music industry has put out quite a few hefty lawsuits for those with MP3's of commercial music on thier systems....

the gaming industry is coming up with ways to Sue those with Warez and Roms....

But then again, it seems you don't watch the news.

Working on 4 projects 2 RPG(programming texturing and 3d map), 1 3rd person shooter (Programming), and a special project.

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