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Geek Culture / Pirates

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Megaton Cat
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 17th Sep 2003 04:59
nope, quit that when they kicked me out of Chapters
(its a book store in my areA)

My site is delyaed for the 250th time!
If life is just one big joke...
then I must have missed the punchline.
Neophyte
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Location: United States
Posted: 17th Sep 2003 09:41
@Arrow

"I use it to download Anime Music Videos..."

You too eh? Out of curiosity, do you have that one of Asuka from Neon Genesis Evangelion singing "Engel". It's a Rammstein song I don't know if you have ever heard of it, but the lip syncing is truly incredible.
CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
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Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 17th Sep 2003 09:50
Here was the starting post...
Quote: "Has anyone ever noticed how many people have copied software. Loads of people have 3DS MAX, there's one guy in the 3D section who is a cheapskate looking for free 3d modeling progs when he has $3500 of 3ds max 4, something dodgy there.
I'm not surprised 3dmax has such a high price coz most people just get a pirated version off the net. I bet its only legit companies that buy it.
How many of you have pirate software??? (stupid question i doubt anyone is gonna admit, but there may be a few crazy people)
"

And here is the current post...
Quote: "
@Arrow

"I use it to download Anime Music Videos..."

You too eh? Out of curiosity, do you have that one of Asuka from Neon Genesis Evangelion singing "Engel". It's a Rammstein song I don't know if you have ever heard of it, but the lip syncing is truly incredible.
"

The point being...

Some threads should be locked/deleted/blocked
maybe I'm just nappy but c'mon

-RUST-
Arrow
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Location: United States
Posted: 17th Sep 2003 10:06 Edited at: 17th Sep 2003 10:09
Heh heh, ya that Evangeliuon Engel inspired me to buy both the cd and the anime. If you really want to see so good synking, try to find Otaku's Vengence's "Pokemon Bitches". The song is by Mindless Self Indudence (Bitches) is perfectly syiced with everything, lips, punches, everything, and that song has some nice tempo.

While on the topic, I recommed these AMV's as well:

Nearly everything from Aluminum Studios
Oh My Goddess - Goo Goo Dolls - Iris
Rurouni Kenshin - U2 - Sunday Bloody Sunday
Sailor Moon - Fear Factory - Ressurection
Princess Mononoke - Peter Gabriel - Rhythm of the Heat
Mezzo Forte - Mindless Self Indulgence - Bite Your Rhymes
Neon Genesis Evangelion - Weird Al Yankovic - I Think I'm a Clone Now
Angelic Layer - Ayumi Hamasaki - You 'Agressive Mix'(Savage)
Xenogears - Nadesico Op - Opening Theme


As for going off topic, hey we're here to have fun, right? If we locked every thread that went off topic there would be only 15 threads still open. Let the connversation evolve.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
Neophyte
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Location: United States
Posted: 17th Sep 2003 10:40
Hey thanks for the list. I'll check those out later when I get the time.

As for CattleRustler...
lagmaster
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 15:40
Quote: "i have only one thng to say: WHO CARES.
The ppl who own cracked games and software dont not care.
The ppl who own mp3s and such dont care
the ppl who own ROMS that they dont really own dont care.
People say its wrong and say its hurting the industry but deep down they dont really give that big of a hoot. Most just think "hey its not my problem, everyone else is doing it" They beleave it doesnt concern them, after all they are just one person. Even if some of you really do care , then wat would you be willing to do about it?"


you should of read the news article about the 12 yr old girl who got sued by the riaa.

in canada it's legal to download/use mp3's:

Quote: "A desperate American recording industry is waging a fierce fight against digital copyright infringement seemingly oblivious to the fact that, for practical purposes, it lost the digital music sharing fight over five years ago. In Canada."


read the news article here:
http://techcentralstation.com/081803C.html

it shows that if you put a tax on cd/dvd and even mp3 players, there's nothing the riaa can do.

heck if i was in canada hearing this news. i would buy myself the best connection there is to buy and a meaty computer with susi and raid.

in the uk the retail price of cd-r's are about £15-30 per 100, so thats 15-30p per cd. if they bumped the price up a couple of pence for each cd, would you complain?

lagmasteruk - http://www.lagmaster.net/ r.nash@ntlworld.com
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 15:40
What is needed is a system where, once you've played it on the CD player, computer whatever, it re-encodes everything so that it is locked to that device - a WORM cd-writer for instance. This would prevent CD's played on a PC being played on any DVD player for example and vice-versa.

In addition, any copying system would need to check to see if the locking has taken place (ie trying to copy before playing) and refuse to do so. It would also refuse to copy once the locking has been added. This could allow CD to be played on other devices whilst making sure (as far as possible), that it cant be copied.

Whilst it wouldn't prevent copying through line-in/out lines (although hardware could be added to check for locked CD's etc), it would certainly help.

The only trouble is that it would have to be added as hardware, with no possibility of updates (incase someone de-codes to code), and extra security around the hardware.


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Arrow
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 16:22
Jeeze, there is no need to add all that software/hardware crap, just bump up the price for internet by a few bucks (kinda like they did with radio and tv) and the problem's solved.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 16:30
and yet the copying would still go on...


Avatar & Logo by Indi. Come to the UK DBPro Convention in Chichester
lagmaster
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 17:57 Edited at: 17th Sep 2003 17:57
yes but then the music industry will get their money.

lagmasteruk - http://www.lagmaster.net/ r.nash@ntlworld.com
specs: 1.2ghz athlon, 384mb ram, geforce 2 mx 400 (32mb),win2k
Rye
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Location: United Kingdom, Blackrod
Posted: 17th Sep 2003 23:18
one way to stop music piracy would be to use a different type of media. maybe some kind of smart media card with the music encrypted that only the media players can decrypt. The only problem is that all your cd players would soon become obsolete.
Damokles
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 23:26
Ryan, that wouldn't work : If you can hear it, there will be a way to copy it.

"Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop." - Lewis Carroll
lagmaster
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 23:53
Quote: "one way to stop music piracy would be to use a different type of media. maybe some kind of smart media card with the music encrypted that only the media players can decrypt. The only problem is that all your cd players would soon become obsolete."


gamepark 32 console used that, there's only about 10 games made for it (but it's main feature is to play older console games on it), but all of them have made their way into roms. it used encryption on smartmedia cards.

lagmasteruk - lagmaster.net is alive! r.nash@ntlworld.com
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Rob K
Retired Moderator
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Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 18th Sep 2003 00:07
Music anti-piracy just isn't possible. If you can hear it, you can record it.

These copy protection methods just irritate people into looking for easier ways of obtaining music, eg Kazaa.

The most successful system to date has been Apple's iTunes store. There is DRM on their tracks, but it isn't that restrictive.

Rwilson
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 04:11
The Coding Area: I'd be careful on what Hardware specific protection systems you support. Check this site out to see waht I mean.
http://www.againsttcpa.com/
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 16:59
Dont forget that is an all encompassing Bill, whereas my idea would reduce the abaility to copy music, although it wont stop people sticking a microphone next to a speaker (the result quality should be poor enough to stop anyone using the copy).


Avatar & Logo by Indi. Come to the UK DBPro Convention in Chichester
Damokles
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 17:05
microphone to a speaker. The result would be poor, that's right, but you could also get cables to your computer, instead of the speakers. That way, there wouldn't be that much lost.

"Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop." - Lewis Carroll
adr
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 17:06
Quote: "the result quality should be poor enough to stop anyone using the copy"

You would have thought that to be the case, but people still insist on taking a video camera into the cinema...

A wise man once said: "I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
lagmaster
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 18:58
most movie releases on the internet are either from the cinema or telecine. but when they convert it to a movie file they have to check the audio and tweak it, if there's a buzzing noise they have to remove it.

from what i recall matrix reloaded took a week to release because there was buzzing during the movie. so they had to edit the audio several times.
the only way small movie companies to make money is to setup shop on the internet and let people with high bandwidth watch it.
how many times have you seen a non hollywood produced in the cinema in the past year?

i see the main downfall for piracy on movies is the ticket prices in cinema. i went to see terminator 3 while i was on holiday. it cost me £5 and it was on the old style screen (where you see dots at various points during the film) not one of them digital screens you get at most cinemas now. i remember a few years back it was only £3 for a ticket. it seems to have sky rocketed within the last few years. but you could blame that on inflation or the ecomony.

release groups at the moment are fighting for the best quality for each movie. the hulk movie was caught out. it was released 14 days before it hit the cinemas.

if they keep fighting for better quality movies. when will it end?

lagmasteruk - lagmaster.net is alive! r.nash@ntlworld.com
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empty
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 20:18
Quote: "Yes, file sharing is hurting the artists."

Reason enough to stop it.

I awoke in a fever. The bedclothes were all soaked in sweat.
She said "You've been having a nightmare and it's not over yet"
lagmaster
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 14:50
if computers are still being produced (in the 1000's), pirates will still exist.
you can even build a computer nowdays for about £100-140.

most of the people are in the big release groups use bnc to cover their tracks. because they dont want their isp named, when they release stuff.

lagmasteruk - lagmaster.net is alive! r.nash@ntlworld.com
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ESC_
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Posted: 20th Sep 2003 04:30
If you had any misconceptions that pirating is good, this informational video should clear things right up

http://www.xboxmaniak.com/video/video2.php?nbr=93

"That's not a bug, it's a feature!"
"Variables won't, constants aren't."
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th Sep 2003 09:18
Quote: "That's the big moral dilemma isn't it - if you don't have the money to buy the software, what gave you the right to steal it?"


i didn't read most, cause no doubt most point will be either for or agint it
that statement above is the real statement that will turn an ordinary person into a crinimal.

at the end of the day thats all it comes down to, can you justify stealing it. Can you justify the difference between stealing some software or stealing an automobile?
i know which gives a better buzz when you do it, also know which one gets your mates killed cause you've crossed the wrong person.

software piracy is a faceless crime, it isn't a victimless crime, its simply faceless. Because you can't see the people your actions affect you think that it doesn't affect anyone.

Discreet doesn't miss $3,500 that they wouldn't make anyway - fact!
however Max4 was only $1,200 they doubled that for Max5 ... why?
because they have the figures of how many pirated version of thier software there is, and so the industry picks up the bill for all of the slackers.
Where does this bill go?
Publishers get rid of dead-weight companies, which are companies whos software doesn't meet quotas and more oftenly than not are just small companies no matter how big thier assets are.
Then there is also the belt-tightening on current companies, which means that salaries are cut even lower than they are ... in a few years time most pro's won't be earning any more than someone at burger king. (the low end staff aren't that far off now!)
Third and final thing is to foot the bill directly onto the consumer, ie the legal customers of the end product.

So rather than when you nick a car affecting just the inconvenience of someone and insurance costs (perhaps dealership losses too).
you're affecting so many people but just taking one piece of software.

but hey its so much easier to know you've screwed over 100 odd people that you'll never see eh.

lagmaster
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Posted: 20th Sep 2003 15:24
Quote: "i didn't read most, cause no doubt most point will be either for or agint it
that statement above is the real statement that will turn an ordinary person into a crinimal.

at the end of the day thats all it comes down to, can you justify stealing it. Can you justify the difference between stealing some software or stealing an automobile?
i know which gives a better buzz when you do it, also know which one gets your mates killed cause you've crossed the wrong person.

software piracy is a faceless crime, it isn't a victimless crime, its simply faceless. Because you can't see the people your actions affect you think that it doesn't affect anyone.

Discreet doesn't miss $3,500 that they wouldn't make anyway - fact!
however Max4 was only $1,200 they doubled that for Max5 ... why?
because they have the figures of how many pirated version of thier software there is, and so the industry picks up the bill for all of the slackers.
Where does this bill go?
Publishers get rid of dead-weight companies, which are companies whos software doesn't meet quotas and more oftenly than not are just small companies no matter how big thier assets are.
Then there is also the belt-tightening on current companies, which means that salaries are cut even lower than they are ... in a few years time most pro's won't be earning any more than someone at burger king. (the low end staff aren't that far off now!)
Third and final thing is to foot the bill directly onto the consumer, ie the legal customers of the end product.

So rather than when you nick a car affecting just the inconvenience of someone and insurance costs (perhaps dealership losses too).
you're affecting so many people but just taking one piece of software.

but hey its so much easier to know you've screwed over 100 odd people that you'll never see eh.
"


yes but everyone at some point in their life has done something illegal. using pirated software is just what most people in the internet do since. the software is there and ready to be downloaded.

because of the internet's growth it's hard to make money from that little shareware program you made. the only way to get some money rolling in is to find a publisher to put the stuff on the shelfs.

but how can online software developers earn a bit of money when using a cracked version is so much easier. if people used their conscience online, there wouldnt be much pirating in the first place. but since the internet is almost a place where you can be anonymous. pirates will still exist.

3d modeling programs do get their money because if some software houses pay for it and there's a lot of software houses around. they dont have anything to complain, but they have to watch out for the "small time programmer" just starting off,

but it all comes down to how big the program your developing wants to be plugged on the internet. if it gets noticed, it'll get cracked but if it's small user base, then piracy wont be a problem.

even dbpro has been pirated. so as you can see it effects every developer.

lagmasteruk - lagmaster.net is alive! r.nash@ntlworld.com
specs: new specs: amd xp 2000+, 512mb ram, ati radeon 9000 pro dvi, 180gb total hdd capasity, custom built
MicroMan
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posted: 23rd Sep 2003 20:32
Well, I don't see the reason for pirating Maya or 3ds Max because both have versions that are free. Yes, they have some licensing issues, but if you're going to build a business of it anyway the price of software is the least of your costs.

And yes, I include the people that sit in their bedrooms and do business because when you start a company your time gets a value, and every hour your spend online marketing your product or developing it is a cost.

And most businesses need to acquire financing anyway, and if you get it you don't even need to buy the most whiz-bang version of 3ds Max or Maya. That's overkill for making games. You don't use more than a quarter, if even that, of the the functions for game-making.

Pirating software is ripping off all of us, even if you don't plan to sell any software yourself

-----
They SAID that given enough time a million monkeys with typewriters could recreate the collected works of William Shakespeare... Internet sure proved them wrong.
-----
lagmaster
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2003 23:09
but why buy the good stuff when you start? you'll get into debt quicker.

find the ones that you can buy a business licence for under $100 that way it cuts your costs a lot less. just start with small stuff, then once money rolls in, get the better stuff.

lagmasteruk - lagmaster.net is alive! r.nash@ntlworld.com
specs: new specs: amd xp 2000+, 512mb ram, ati radeon 9000 pro dvi, 180gb total hdd capasity, custom built
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Sep 2003 08:08
this is kinda my point, although most pirates sales don't affect companies and they couldn't afford them in the first place - they can then use it as an excuse.

however it isn't the top men that foot the bill for this excused inflation, no the costs are handed down to the lowest ring in the chain.

put simple US... those of us who legitimately purchase things are the people who foot the bill.
Whenever a car gets stolen, if it is a popular car to be stolen then the car manufactures put in a token symbol to stop the thieves which upps the price, the price of the insurance also sky rockets as a result. It might not cost the insurance company or builders anymore money to cover - however it ends up costing you the end user.

this is the same no matter the product.
over the past 10years the internet has gone from a cool place to share information to one of those cities which has so many seedy area's you wonder if there are any good areas.
With the advent of broadband quite frankly it makes piracy a pastime for almost everyone - because downloading a cracked program or game of 300mb on a 56k would take you over a day and it wouldn't nessisarily be AS good. But now on a Broadband connection you can download entire CDs within a matter of an hr or two.

as i said, its only a victimless crime because people can't see what they're doing and will probably never know of the reprocussions of thier actions.
sorry but the majority of online users now just aren't ready for the responsibility that comes with becomming a no-body... they see it as an oppertunity to be uninhibited, and that is just wrong.

i swear there needs to be far better online protection, and thank god Windows .Net will give this - no doubt alot of people still disagree with the new TOS there is going to be, but quite frankly if people were more responsible online such measures would never have needed to come into play.

Damokles
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Posted: 24th Sep 2003 20:52
Raven, you mean people are faceless in the internet ?
I agree, but I would say it's even worse than that. People are faceless almost everywhere in industrial countries.
Let me explain what I mean with an example : You want a job, so you ask for it. Your (probably) future boss doesn't want to know who you are, and if your skills are lower than some other guy, then he won't take you. And before you have the job, you will remain faceless, he won't regret what he's doing, he won't know that two children need some food at home, most bosses don't bother about it. (I didn't say all)

"Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop." - Lewis Carroll
lagmaster
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Posted: 24th Sep 2003 23:13
pirates will go to almost anything it takes just to crack a program. think of uwdesign his meta program got cracked.

when ut2003 came out. i saw a irc network full because of 1 person that had the release.

believe me i've been to see how low the pirates go and it's not good.

i wont sit here and explain how it's done because i bet a minotiry of the forum members will get ideas. but there's ways to almost make yourself anonymous on the internet and thats how it's harder to trace the people who release the stuff.

lagmasteruk - lagmaster.net is alive! r.nash@ntlworld.com
specs: new specs: amd xp 2000+, 512mb ram, ati radeon 9000 pro dvi, 180gb total hdd capasity, custom built

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