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FPS Creator X10 / FPS Crator x10 Dead?

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Jordan Siddall
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 22:34 Edited at: 1st Apr 2010 22:35
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Okay, so I've been here since before FPS Creator was announced. I bought FPS Creator EA, then the Disk copy. Years later I bought a new 8800 GTX graphics card to support my disk copy of FPS Creator x10. When FPS Creator x10 was released, the Game Creators sort of left it full of bugs for a fair few years, so naturally I lost interest.

I keep getting the Game Creators Newsletter. I would read the FPSC section and find out about all these new features that are being implemented. New ragdoll scripts, better ai scrips, new model packs. It all sounds fantastic! Then I realise the entire artical was under "FPSCreator x9" not x10. I was about to buy a Zombie Apocalypses model pack when I realise, it only seems to be for x9.

My question is, what the hell is going on here? FPSC x10 seems to be moving at a slower pace than its predecessor. Does FPS Creator x10 have the new ragdoll scripts, better ai scrips, new model packs? Are they supported?

I'm really frustrated here guys and I need some explanations.
Thanks.

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Le Shorte
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 23:04
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Quote: "Does FPS Creator x10 have the new ragdoll scripts, better ai scrips, new model packs"


It has DarkAI, ragdoll, and every model pack but 38 and Zombie apocalypse work for x10. The source code(MODS!!!) was just released and Lee just finished v1.10 public beta. X10 is not dead!

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166194&b=25
RADS, X10 Game. Still in Development as of 3/25/10
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Soviet176
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 00:01
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Though what you say is true, FPSC x9 is getting pretty much all of that, It frustrates me as much as it does you, because x9 is much cheaper than x10. The x9 community is getting what we have when we purchased this software for those very reason, things we had over x9 we have no longer. For awhile x10 was virtually limited. Now lee has released the source code for x10 so you can see plenty of mods underway. The only thing that x10 has over x9 right now is the ability to use 4.0 shaders (x9 can only use up to 2.0 unless you want to blow your engine up) and x10 also has a bigger pipeline for just these kinds of things. We also have the ability to create particles. X9 has the same but not as advanced as x10. However, no need to fear. What the x9 community does not realize is. x9 is getting older by the day, more development company's are leaving direct x9 to explore more advanced technologies like x10 and x11. These new technologies allow for so much more and leaves out the limitation direct x9 has. We are moving slowly now yes. But in the feature we will be on top and leave x9 in the dirt. As for your questions, yes x10 comes with DarkAI and rag doll. Most of the model packs work now with the new addition of v 1.10. Hope this helped!

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Fluffy
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 01:03
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X9 is just receiving some much needed TLC thats all... relax hombres...we are all indie-game developers and TGC is just providing the best possible ways in which we can accomplish our projects with a more professional touch in terms of new features in v117 and future updates...X9 and X10 with both remain quality tools.

You just wasted a few seconds of your life reading this signature!
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Jordan Siddall
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 04:54
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I know that x10 has ragdoll. I was referring to the new ragdoll scripts allowing users to drop the "ragdoll" physics using a piece of code.

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Le Shorte
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 06:09
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Quote: "new ragdoll scripts allowing users to drop the "ragdoll" physics "


You mean the scripting commands? I believe the budokai or Daniel is adding those to the mod soon

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166194&b=25
RADS, X10 Game. Still in Development as of 3/25/10
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bond1
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 01:11 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2010 01:17
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My honest to goodness advice, with no snarkiness intended: Move back to X9. Didn't I read somewhere that TGC wasn't going to support X10 beyond Vista anyhow? I took that to mean that it was a one-off product meant live and die with Vista.

There are lots of exciting things happening with X9, I don't think you'll miss X10. If you've had X10 for a few years now, surely you've gotten your moneys worth of entertainment out of it by now anyway. So don't let it pain you that X9 is getting some of these features now.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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Jordan Siddall
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 06:51
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bond1, thanks for letting me know.
Yea I thought this might be the case. But x10 looks so good, the water, reflections and window refractions. Does x9 have any of these things yet? The quality of x9 to x10 doesn't even compare!

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bond1
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 16:14 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2010 16:15
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Take a look at the migration discussion thread in the FPSC forum. X9 is getting MANY of these things, including new shaders, and a full screen shader system for bloom and other post-process effects. So the line between X9 and X10 is getting closer.


Also check out my Metro Theater video, if you don't mind me pimping my own stuff. There are some effects in the Metro Theater that even X10 doesn't do. Graphics are subjective, but I think it looks pretty good! Make sure to watch it in HD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpBdkCaBaz8

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 17:08
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X10 is dead. Long live X9.

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Le Shorte
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 17:33
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X10 soon will own. Soon enough. X10 is not dead, it was reborn a couple days ago Mods will come, AirMod is currently being integrated. Daniel and Budokaiman are trying to get the codes for PB and Fenix. I can assure you x10 is not dead.


Quote: "Didn't I read somewhere that TGC wasn't going to support X10 beyond Vista anyhow"

I don't believe TGC is supporting W7 for x9, from my knowledge of recent events in the forum

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166194&b=25
RADS, X10 Game. Still in Development as of 3/25/10
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shoot me
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 17:59
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Bond1, Pack is really awsome! Already bought the pack. Keep em coming.....
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budokaiman
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 18:23 Edited at: 1st May 2010 21:42
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Quote: "Daniel and Budokaiman are trying to get the codes for PB and Fenix."

We are?

The X10 Revival Competition
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bond1
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 19:07 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2010 19:09
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Quote: "I don't believe TGC is supporting W7 for x9, from my knowledge of recent events in the forum "


Where did you read that? Considering TGC has mentioned several times at their conferences that X9 is their number one product, I find that hard to believe. I know I've seen Lee mention several times that X10, however, was not being officially supported beyond Vista, even though it works just fine on Win7.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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Nilloc
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 19:09
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one of you said you were going to look into that

Wat a signature?
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Soviet176
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 19:37
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The fact of the matter is FPSC x9 already lags with 90% of that eyecandy you are all getting, it was not desighnd to have particle systems or water in general. It was because of your mod support you were able to do any of this. Take a look at the corvus mod, sure its beautiful, it's nice looking. Did anyone venture to look at the 20fps? I don't know about you guys but I would not purchase a game that runs with 20 fps. X10 on the other hand, may not be fully supported by tgc, but sooner or later all the major develoupment compaines will walk away from x9 and it's limits and go to x10 and x11. FPSC x10 was desihnd to use shaders like in corvus mod and water without dropping to 20 fps. Now when the migration comes out, then we will look at a different approach, as TGC has sadi x9 and x10 users are going to get a copy.

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Le Shorte
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 22:52 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2010 22:57
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Quote: "We are?"

Yeah, someone said that they would try to get that. Maybe it wasn't one of you?

Quote: "Where did you read that? Considering TGC has mentioned several times at their conferences that X9 is their number one product, I find that hard to believe. I know I've seen Lee mention several times that X10, however, was not being officially supported beyond Vista, even though it works just fine on Win7."

Well, at the moment, neither FPSC's are officially supported for W7. And as far as I know, TGC never said X9 was going to be W7 supported. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't use x9 anymore, so I don't keep as up to date as I used to. X9 will more than likely be left in the dust as we are currently in Directx9's sunset. X10's day has just dawned, and W7 has just been born.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166194&b=25
RADS, X10 Game. Still in Development as of 3/25/10
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Soviet176
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Posted: 4th Apr 2010 00:01
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Quote: "X9 will more than likely be left in the dust as we are currently in Directx9's sunset. X10's day has just dawned, and W7 has just been born."


correct, as all of the other old technologies before it. With windows 7 and the new x11 we have already seen what this new technology can do. Just look at battle field bad comp 2 or AvP, perhaps you enjoy crysis, well crysis 2 is underway with this new technology. Direct x9 is just not cutting it anymore with the demand of gamers.

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science boy
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Posted: 4th Apr 2010 01:43
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i can understand x9 having more people and more media etc. but as most here are saying x9 is now getting further behind, and x10 works on x11 and works better than x9, and as far as im concerned we have modders on the case now, so people may get extras on x9 but performance will suffer i believe, im not dissing x9 but as long as there is a forum of top x10 people and we can convert mod packs and develop the engine through our modders we should be ok. although i wish someone could find a way to get them mob zombies to operate properly ( anyone? ) anyway in the end its down to preference and i prefer x10 by far.

but will check out migration when its available.

an unquenchable thirst for knowledge of game creation!!!
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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 4th Apr 2010 23:44
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You know what I am getting out of this? A PS3-Xbox 360-esque fight.

Bond1 is really the only one to have a valid point...Everyone else is "X10 is going to own no wthat we have mods!!!!!" or "X10 sux use X9 noobs" type of thing.

I personally use X9, I like the extra support and overall more usage, but honestly, I would love to have X10. I love how the bloom looks. Plus all the other features...I want to get my hands on that.

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SikaSina Games
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 02:08
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@Shadowtroid,

To be honest, I liked x9 until it the lighting stopped working and moved onto x10. And I must say, I'm impressed with it and feel a little more free with x10. After seeing the hate posts abut x10, it kind of drew me back against using x10 but even after updating x9, it still didn't work, even with new drivers and whatnot. So I permanently switched x10 whether people liked it or not and yeah, this thread seems much like people are treating FPSC X10 like crap, and I don't agree with them, since I think that both of the engines seem capable of brilliant game design, mods or not.

SO basically,

Anyone who's saying that x10 is crap is wrong, and anyone who is saying x9 is crap is wrong. They are both good and each one has its features and pulldowns.

-SSG

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"Bang, bang, bang, in your head, fool" - Sick by +Dope+
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Le Shorte
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 03:02
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Quote: "
Bond1 is really the only one to have a valid point...Everyone else is "X10 is going to own no wthat we have mods!!!!!" or "X10 sux use X9 noobs" type of thing.
"


I can understand that, but really, why does everyone hate x10? But X10 with the new mod, clearly upstages x9. As said, DirectX9(in general) is for the most part being left behind by all game developers. In my personal opinion, Bond1 is NOT the only person with a valid point. Sure, FPSC x9 is getting a good amount of x10 features, but it'll get an awful framerate more than likely. No one wants to play a game at 20fps the entire time. I liked X9 when I used it, but now it seems just so...old. X10 and X11 are both the future of gaming.

Take Crysis for example. Made for stunning stuff(on the PC, which represents X10 and X11). It's now being ported over to the 360 and PS3(represent X9). They are sacrificing graphics quite a bit, but still only hover at around 25fps from the videos I've seen. 360's and PS3's aren't capable of what a PC can do. On the PC, crysis can be run at about 90 FPS on a gaming rig. 360 and PS3 get 25 fps. So take that extended simile and put it together.

^ THAT is what's happening to FPSC.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166194&b=25
RADS, X10 Game. Still in Development as of 3/25/10
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budokaiman
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 03:13
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I think that what SikaSina said makes the most sense, they both have their own strong suits. If you have the hardware for X10, and you would like the shaders that it comes with then get that. Our mod doesn't have a great amount of features right now, but in time we will do what we can to make X10 equivalent to X9, but if you want the best support, you will undoubtedly get it in the X9 community.

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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 03:32
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@le shorte

Ladies and gentlemen, please direct your attention to Exhibit A...

I agree with Budokaiman and SikaSina. And I leave it at that.

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Le Shorte
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 04:06
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Quote: "but if you want the best support, you will undoubtedly get it in the X9 community."

I was not denying that.

Quote: "@le shorte

Ladies and gentlemen, please direct your attention to Exhibit A...
"

Well that was rude

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166194&b=25
RADS, X10 Game. Still in Development as of 3/25/10
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budokaiman
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 15:34
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Quote: "I was not denying that."

I never said you were, I was just stating it in my post. I have no intentions to offend anyone, I am simply trying to give my view on how the two programs are upheld, and what the benefits are.

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Le Shorte
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 17:15
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Quote: "I have no intentions to offend anyone"

It's fine, I wasn't offended. Just trying to give my opinion too.




Jon

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166194&b=25
RADS, X10 Game. Still in Development as of 3/25/10
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FredP
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 17:39
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Quote: "but if you want the best support, you will undoubtedly get it in the X9 community"


The purpose of the x10 board was so x10 users could have their own board to support each other just like the other boards.
TGC gave you a support board.It's up to you to use it.
x9 gets more support because it's less expensive,been around longer and works on most pcs.That's something that x10 users just have to accept.
I'm not going to bash x10.I bought it and had some fun with it.I've already got my money's worth out of it.
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Bigsnake
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 18:13
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@FredP

Since alot of people don't have good enough PC'S for X10 I would rly like to see what happens in the x9 1.17 update cause v1.17 has got x10 shaders in which most people will find laggy

Windows 7, Amd Athlon 7750 Black Editon (64 bit,3ghz + Dual Core), ATI Readon HD 4870 1gb Edition, 4gb Ram.
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budokaiman
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 18:30
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Quote: "That's something that x10 users just have to accept."

Once again, my posts aren't opinion based, they are fact based. He will get support with X10, because the X10 board is a small community and everyone does their part to help others, but if he would like better support, more people to help them and more updates, and getting the updates in a shorter amount of time, the X9 board is able to give that, while the X10 board has a smaller amount of people so the best help may not always be available like it is in X9. I really like the X10 community, and that is why I spend my time here, instead of the X9 board. Without intention of bragging, I would say that between Soviet176 and myself, we try to test the problems that others are having, and as soon as someone has a problem, we do what we can to help them. Yes, both boards have wonderful communities, but the X9 board is where you will get faster and better support because there are more dedicated members there.

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Soviet176
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 21:31
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@ budokaiman

I agree 200% and lol @ Location: 127.0.0.1

xD

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The Next
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 23:17
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Oh the dreaded X10 vs X9 argument. Being that i have both and have had my fair share of time with both of them, i think that what X9 loses in terms of beauty it more than makes up for in the support and media side of things, the compassion for the product by many that use it is amazing. X10 will be able to handle all these new and cool things that people get excited about but at least for the first few years X10 will remain almost a novelty to own due to the high cost and the low customer base X10 presents.

But TGC has to look at facts here all new professional games support X10, some even with a totally separate X10 version. For really avid gamers X10 is the way games are going and as with any new upgrade you can expect it to be slow to take of. The same thing was seen with the move from XP to Vista or Win7, people don't want to move because they know it works and it has been used for so long. But the facts are X10 is the future, if you saw a game engine with Direct X8 support now you would laugh and run away the same will happen to X9 in a few years when hardware catches up with the software and becomes cheaper, X9 will be out.

X10 is not dead, but its not goodbye to X9 just yet either.

Hope that answers a few questions.

Windows 7 Pro, Intel Core 2 Duo 2.8Ghz, 4GB DDR3, Dual nvidia SLI 9600GT 1GB, 1.5TB Hard disk
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Soviet176
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Posted: 6th Apr 2010 00:02
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very well said The Next

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Jordan Siddall
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So I want to make games fast and easy (for friends and fun). I want the least buggiest, and the one that has the easiest modified scripts. I want rag-doll physics, and water effects. Does X9 have all these things?

Like I said, I own both products and have done for a long time. I just gave up after X10 was crashing, bugged out, AI not responding to scripts (patrol).

Last thing. Lip syncing? Is that happening?

Thanks.

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budokaiman
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Posted: 6th Apr 2010 02:47
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Quote: "Does X9 have all these things?"

Currently, no. Soon, maybe. Eventually, yes.

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Lightning Bolt Studios
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Posted: 6th Apr 2010 03:51 Edited at: 6th Apr 2010 04:50
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The Next, hit the nail on the head, I have had both X9 and X10 also I was also a beta tester for X10 and I enjoy both version, and I don't understand now that X9 is getting all the same features as X10 why the price of X10 is still more than X9?
I mean if they lowered the price wouldn't more people buy X10 and it would maybe become as popular as X9?
And I don't know if this correct but I thought TGC was going to merge X9 and X10 together, I thought that was the whole purpose of the migration.
I think combining them together would be the best of both world, they could customize the preference tab and have a box with a check for directX 9 compatible game on export or directX 10 compatible game on export.
And give you the option for shader model 2.0 to 4.0 with a check box in preferences.
This would solve the whole X9 vs. X10 problem. then we could all live in peace and harmony LOL.

Just my 2 cents
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Le Shorte
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Posted: 6th Apr 2010 04:46 Edited at: 6th Apr 2010 04:47
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The Next said it very well. But I was for the most part saying the same thing but people said my 2 cents weren't valid points




Jon

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166194&b=25
RADS, X10 Game. Still in Development as of 3/25/10
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Hockeykid
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Posted: 6th Apr 2010 07:37
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Quote: "Since alot of people don't have good enough PC'S for X10 I would rly like to see what happens in the x9 1.17 update cause v1.17 has got x10 shaders in which most people will find laggy"


V1.17 does not use the same shaders as X10. X10's shaders were rendered in Dark Shader and are based off of a very different shader system. V1.17 only (so far) has 2 full screen shaders which use post processing and DBPro's new rendertotarget (something like that) which allows for multiple shaders to be rendered on 1 camera. Of course for low end PC's the 2 full screen shaders might cause a bit of a frame drop but there's also Bond1's new pixel shader 2.0 shaders which should run fine.

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science boy
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Posted: 6th Apr 2010 16:22
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well there you go both sides of the argument and lots of facts and opinions. some good points too, ( welcome back the next, its djlslee here).

it does seem that both will carry on and both will have their loyal followers, i hope that chupa cabra's idea is what happens then all will be joyous. but i doubt it.

anyway x9-ers back to your boards and keep up your creations and inspirations. the x10-ers will keep that up here.

in the end its about creating our own master pieces, to our best, not comparing, and both have inspired me.

an unquenchable thirst for knowledge of game creation!!!
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Le Shorte
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Posted: 6th Apr 2010 17:14
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@ Science Boy


AMEN!!!

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166194&b=25
RADS, X10 Game. Still in Development as of 3/25/10
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bond1
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Posted: 6th Apr 2010 23:02 Edited at: 6th Apr 2010 23:04
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Quote: " rendertotarget (something like that) which allows for multiple shaders to be rendered on 1 camera"


Yes, this is a VERY exciting development for X9. With built in support for rendering the screen to a texture within the shader itself, this will open the door for all kinds of new effects. All done on the GPU where it is very fast. Heat haze, HDR effects, film-grain effects, even shadow mapping. Plus X9 will have the ability to manipulate shaders in real-time. Lip-syncing characters are coming. The doors are about to be blown off the hinges on X9...

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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 7th Apr 2010 14:10
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Another thing that I am surprised no one has mentioned is X10-only shaders and reputation.

Most things that were in X10 but not X9 do not even need DirectX10 to use. Bloom, window refraction, all can be done without X10 and with X9 only.

Another problem I have with X10 I think is the reputation. It's sort of known for being a much younger group. Most people go "oh if I get this one my games will be better." Chances are, if you had to get X9 instead of X10, you have to worry about your own money, and will probably actually make a game.

I think currently there is 1 X10 game on the WIP board. I'm pretty sure it was Le Shorte's Rads. Other than that, it's all X9.

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Le Shorte
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Posted: 7th Apr 2010 18:02
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There's my game, but here's a full list of x10 games on the WIP board

A Nightmare, Revelation, Unit 7, Grimwich Manner, lv21, Galaxy Deathmatch, Under Goliath, DoomeD, The Wooded Grotto, Construction Site, Perfection, Parking Lot, Dead Hope, PR1MORDIAL, Tilted, Dead Hope: When it arrives, Virus, Alien Wars, Zetsubou, Cinema, Crimson Insanity Pt 1, Axis and Allies, Total Infection, Sword and Axe, The Oil Rig, Run for your Life, Sword and Axe(again), The Tomb, Prison Break, War, Alien Conflict, Iceberg, U187-Universal Executions, Survival, Paranormal Investigations, Vearon, Alone, Enroachment, Experiment No. 85, Deadly Tower, Dang Em High, Half Life Nightmare House, Hide and Seek Hardcore Zombie, Doom3 Tech Demo, A colder Christmas, Mars at War, The fall of Mars, Attack of Ruknos, 1943, Black Nights, Unit 54, Death Camp, Die for your life: The Beginning, The Shrine, Survival, Sewagefest, Pointless assault, Strike Down, Disturbing Silence, Meleveolent, War 48, Resident Evil, Winchester, Test Level


A lot more x10 games than just Rads

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166194&b=25
RADS, X10 Game. Still in Development as of 4/6/10
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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 8th Apr 2010 00:42
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That are still updated?

Let's face it, most of those games haven't seen updates in ages.

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Le Shorte
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Posted: 8th Apr 2010 02:50
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Quote: "I think currently there is 1 X10 game on the WIP board"


You never said still updated. Simply that Rads is the only x10 game on the WIP boards

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166194&b=25
RADS, X10 Game. Still in Development as of 4/6/10
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 9th Apr 2010 17:55
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Quote: "Yes, this is a VERY exciting development for X9. With built in support for rendering the screen to a texture within the shader itself, this will open the door for all kinds of new effects. All done on the GPU where it is very fast. Heat haze, HDR effects, film-grain effects, even shadow mapping. Plus X9 will have the ability to manipulate shaders in real-time. Lip-syncing characters are coming. The doors are about to be blown off the hinges on X9..."


Bond1 just said something very important there. SHADOW MAPPING

Its great the FPSC migration has led to a fundamental improvement to the Dark Basic Pro shader system.

I think its also worth mentioning here the FPSC X10 shader system is not backwards compatible with X9 so NONE of the ultra cool shaders bond1 is releasing will work in X10. Also you can't get a dx10 shader from somewhere like Nvidia and import it into FPSC X10 so there is a significant issue with X10 in that respect.

X9 is going to eat X10 alive once V117 is released.

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Jingle Fett
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Posted: 9th Apr 2010 20:51
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Quote: "Another problem I have with X10 I think is the reputation. It's sort of known for being a much younger group. Most people go "oh if I get this one my games will be better." Chances are, if you had to get X9 instead of X10, you have to worry about your own money, and will probably actually make a game."


Actually it's the opposite, overall the age group is older since X10 is a bigger investment. Some evidence for that is the fact that to make your own media for X10 there's a lot more to it than X9 (you can't just make a model and texture, you also have to make normal and specular maps, something which is daunting to casual users). Also since X10 is more expensive, you have more motivation to make your game, not less. You'll probably have to upgrade your PC too just to run it so the cost is higher overall. No doubt some kids run to mom and dad to get the money and they don't care too much but most of us had to save up our money just to be able to run X10. That's probably why most X10 users are so stubborn about letting go of X10; we want return on our investment. Had it not been for that, X10 probably would have died out long ago...

http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r33/Sanky_Panky/Gabriel%20Acosta%20Unity%20FPS/?albumview=slideshow
My Unity FPS WIP
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