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Geek Culture / new game chip and linux block for xbox

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indi
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Posted: 17th Sep 2003 18:32
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gamasutra.com reports


Intel Creates Chip For Games Market
Intel representatives have today announced that they will introduce a new Pentium 4 microprocessor aimed directly at the PC video game market. Scheduled to arrive within the next two months the ‘Pentium 4 Extreme Edition’ will run at clock speeds of 3.2 GHz and have four times the cache memory of the fastest current Pentium 4.

Speaking at the company’s twice yearly developer forum at the San Jose McEnery Convention Center there was disappointingly little information on the new ‘Prescott’ chip, known to be the company’s first desktop chip to utilize their next-generation 90-nanometer manufacturing process.

Officials did announce though that a 64-bit Itanium chip with a multiple processor core, code-named Tanglewood, would be revealed after 2005.
-David Jenkins

Microsoft Blocks Linux From Xbox
Linux fans are today up in arms after Microsoft allegedly issued an auto-installing patch to the Xbox dashboard, which prevents the Linux operating system from being easily installed on the console.

Enthusiasts had previously found a way to legally install Linux via a bug in the game save function of EA’s 007: Nightfire. With this route closed no doubt many Linux fans will turn to more legally dubious was of installing the software.

http://www.lunarpixel.com
It's already tomorrow in Australia
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Preston C
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 01:06
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Hmm...

This new game chip will be far too expensive for me, well at least for 2 years, when they release a 4.5 P5 or something.

And as for making an xbox into a linux machine, woopidy do. I never used linux, and I really dont care why Microsoft would patch it so that cant happen. Really, they should take note of this, and make a real linux like OS for the Xbox, other that that silly menu thats there for memory management and such.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 02:14
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yeah the new pentium chip is suppose to combat the speed of the new Athlon64, will have extended support for :: hold breath :: Shaders lol ... it'll also have TnL builtin so that the overflow from the graphics cards rather than being emulated will be able to be run just as if it were on the hardware itself.

it does have some impressive paper speed, and it will definately beat the Athlon64 in 32bit architecture programs ... however the addition structure in the x86-64 really does mean that it'll be a close if not interesting choice between them.

no doubt a good few of you will groan to know that it is nVidia who are supplying the hardware specifics for the new features (there's a huge spill in the nVidia Developer section about it) ... but there is also something to do with the PCIeXpress format to improve the speed.

Something that niether ATi nor nVidia have wasted any time getting thier cards setup for. So expect to see PCIX versions of GeForceFX and Radeon cards soon - not that it'll make much of a speed difference, and there will still be AGP versions as the AGP4.0 socket is on the way boasting 6.1gb bandwidth yadda-yadda-yadda...
There won't be much speed wise, but unlike PCI - AGP still has the direct bridge links to the Processor and Ram.

-- -- --

as for the Linux on XBox... i have one question :: puts on his best welsh accent :: why?
sorry but it seems very very odd to want to put Linux on a machine which is only capable of using DirectX 8.1/9.0

the nVidia GPU/APU/MPU onboard are custom designs, which are very unstable using the current driver builds ... it just makes about as much sense as trying to get a buddist monk to grow some dreadlocks.

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Preston C
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 02:28
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Quote: "as for the Linux on XBox... i have one question :: puts on his best welsh accent :: why?
"


Because there are some people who want to boast about programming on an Xbox, even if it means installing Linux and programming with that.

As for the Athlon64, tell me about it. I only have one connection to rumors and technology unveilings, and I blocked him on AIM a while ago (maybe I should unblock him and ask him about it.) Sounds like they can both push graphics like never before. Maybe push them too fast. Who knows.

*Random Thought From My Bag of Thoughts:*
I wonder if Nintendo, Sony, and their developers program the games on their rival Microsofts windows OS. That would be funny, requiring a rivals software to make their own.


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Mattman
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 02:54
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Quote: "*Random Thought From My Bag of Thoughts:*
"
lol

Got a knack for finding secrets??? Jingot Racing --- A new brand of Racing --- Only from Nightwatch Studios
"hey, it's tomorrow" --- Hamish
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 03:43
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Athlon64 information can be found on the nVidia sites and on AMDs European and United States Sites (no others currently though, which must be disappointing to the asian market)

They're two totally different processors, the Pentium4 EX is aimed at games specifically the updates to the HT and extra registers are specifically for DirectX 9.1 (makes it pretty usless until its released mid-2004) - the Athlon64 on the other hand is essentially 2processors in 1 ... Athlons new x86-64 structure makes it a true 64bit processor, as opposed to the AthlonXP/Pentium4's pseudo 64bit modes. Which makes it extremely powerful with alot of additional registers and this structure is all ontop of the standard x86-32 base which can be used like a Co-Processor.

it makes both of them very different and interesting beasties... which will be better for games only time will tell - but for overal system performance the Athlon64 can outperform current Xeon and Itanium processors from Intel

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Preston C
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Posted: 18th Sep 2003 04:07
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Oh ok, never really cared about Athlon before, was always a pentium loyalist. Thanks for filling me in.


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Van B
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 13:06
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The whole point of installing Linux on an X-Box is that you get a Linux server for the price of a second hand XBox (usually about £80) - Microsoft are pissed because they don't make a profit from console sales, games sales are where the money is, and if your using your XBox as a linux server you arent buying games for it.


Van-B

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 13:27
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why would you use one as a server??
733mhz pentium3 processor
32mb exclusive system and 32mb of shared ram between the audio/graphics/network/system
the HDD is piddly small too, something like 10gb
not to mention the network adapter is a 10mbit
even dedicated that'll be piss poor on anything over 4 players, unless you want to populate the world with 4 constant Bots

you can pickup a 120gb dma/133 athlonxp 1.3ghz w/1gb DDR2 400mhz PC2700 & case for like $280 thats what £130? around that.
you don't even need a good graphics card for a dedicated server, just throw any old cheap thing in there.
$15 will get you a good 10/100mbit Nic.

for only a few bob you can get youself something which is capable of 32players, 64 if you really want to push it and has the capacity and ram to actually run popular games like UT2k3 or JA.

some people are really weird man, what a flipping waste of the XBox's hardware.

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Van B
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 13:34
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But you forgot the most important thing Raven...

It pisses Bill Gates off!


Van-B

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 13:51
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no it doesn't... Bill Gates has hated the XBox project from the start, everyone knows that by now - if they don't they musta been living under a rock.

he objected to the project, but because Microsoft is now a democracy he ain't got any choice - its all a vote, he doesn't even stump up the money anymore.

Gates really has become the Mario of the Microsoft Corportation, everyone knows him, everyone either likes or hates him, and the funny thing is he doesn't do anything for the company itself anymore - just paraded around to be a familiar face everyone can go "ahh i know him".
I swear he should have a game already

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Van B
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 14:09
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So your saying Bill Gates wonders about with a complacent look on his face, getting in engineers ways and spilling his coffee. Don't be daft Raven!.


Van-B

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 15:08
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Van tell me his job description... seriously, i'm wondering.

about 2years ago he stepped down as the CEO of microsoft, he is no longer tha majority share holder, technically i think the only thing that truely ties him to Microsoft anymore is the fact he has a seat on the board.

Doesn't program (and aparently he really never did), doesn't put any of his billions into MS, doesn't do avertising or PR ...
he was a thouragh-bred businessman, and he's given that up to be a figurehead.

its not all bad, he has alot more time to spend with his kids which quite frankly are spoilt to death
::mumbles:: wish my parents built me zoo in my backyard

think about it really, he's as rich as he's gonna get really - he doesn't need anymore ... would you work?
after the whole debacle of the Microsoft Company seperation & Windows Monopoly legal stuff, at that point he kinda threw up his arms and said "i'm too old for this s**t!"
really he's the richest man in the world, if you were that rich and you wouldn't loose any money by taking early retirement or even putting yourself in a cushy job you can't be fired from with a nice salary - i mean serious would you still be working hard?

personally i'd buy myself and island, setup a bar and drink with my mates all day long in paradise - somewhere with good breaks to surf

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Van B
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 15:30
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Hehe, If I was Gates I would have retired at age 30! - but I think he was behind the XBox at the start, back when I think he wanted to take on Sony, did'nt really work out how he'd planned but the Box is still the best console available - which is fairly admirable. There's a number of things we can do to stick the fingers up to M$, unfortunately Linuxifying an XBox is about the only legal way!.


Van-B

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 15:53
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lol well thats your opinion, i've got nothing against Microsoft.
from my pov they've provided everyone, including myself with top notch software.

i use Windows XP, i develop using Visual C++ and DirectX, i use Microsoft Office as my main office solution and i prefer Media Player for my music.
not to mention i'm a huge fan of Mechwarrior, Flight Sim, Midtown Madness - and lets not forget that Valve were all microsoft escapees.

way i see it, you want quality you have to pay for it .... Microsoft software ain't cheap but its the best.

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Preston C
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 17:34
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Quote: "not to mention i'm a huge fan of Mechwarrior"


You play MW4: Mercenaries? What's your name on it? You'll always recognize mine ({NWC}Omega)


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Preston C
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 17:43
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Oh yeah, speaking of Mech Warrior 4: Mercenaries, hasnt MekTek already started their beta testing of their 3rd party expansion? Saw a few upgraded servers the other day and the patch wasnt on the Microsoft website (well, I didnt really check, I just assumed)


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Ian T
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 17:55
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'run at clock speeds of 3.2 GHz and have four times the cache memory of the fastest current Pentium 4.'

Holy crap... SPEED! Wow, I want one of those. I just have to wait 2 years for it to drop to $100

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball
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Van B
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 18:14
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The most annoying thing about Microsoft is the fact that they have basically stolen their entire product range, based it on other products, then these other products slowly disapear. Even Netscape is on it's way out.

Excel was based on Quattro, Foxpro was based on DBase, Word was based on Wordperfect - they even stole DOS, and the whole idea behind GUI's. I can't help using there stuff, I make a living from Microsoft Access, does'nt mean I would'nt make a living with DBase, god knows what the original products would be like now if they were left alone. I think people are being generous when they say PC's would'nt be the same without M$, because for all we know these really innovative applications that M$ crushed and stole from could have been excellent, and bug free too!. They have become the best by shutting down the competition instead of competing with it.

To tell the truth, if the Mac had the same support as the PC I'd be programming on that instead. In all my years with PC's, going back to the amber screen era, back when Microsoft really took off - the only thing that Microsoft did to make me think they were a good company was the Windows98 upgrade CD, the one that could overwrite 95. I thought that was really nice and easy to use. Well done Microsoft.


Van-B

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empty
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Posted: 19th Sep 2003 20:02 Edited at: 19th Sep 2003 20:04
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Rather old (around 1995/6) but good:

http://www.microbizz.nl/generalmotors.htm

I awoke in a fever. The bedclothes were all soaked in sweat.
She said "You've been having a nightmare and it's not over yet"
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Pricey
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2003 21:03 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2003 21:04
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the forum is saying that all posts are locked but it is letting me reply!?

Nice Gun... AHH! He's Gotta Gun!

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2003 21:21 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2003 21:38
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Quote: "To tell the truth, if the Mac had the same support as the PC I'd be programming on that instead"

I suspect most people would, but until Apple start pushing Macs a lot more, using the same aggressive stance that Microsoft take (causing Apple to do Microsoft a lot of damage), it wont happen.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2003 06:07
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even if they did nick they wouldn't catch up to Microsoft now, no one can - and Microsoft knows that all too well.
add to this Macintosh's technology is quite far behind that of the IBM Compatibles.

as for MW4, don't play online - only time i get to play games online is oftenly when i'm not at home, and only have a 56k.
Developers seem to have forgotten or don't care about the 56k market anymore. I've yet to find a broadband capable of using an unedited phoneline or cellphone for my laptop.

Quote: "The most annoying thing about Microsoft is the fact that they have basically stolen their entire product range, based it on other products, then these other products slowly disapear. Even Netscape is on it's way out"


yup they have, then they've made it thier own and made it bigger and better ... then at the end of the day it doesn't come down to what is used more as they're both in a free market, it comes down to which is eaiser/cheaper/better featured.
And at the end of the day Micrsoft is capable of taking something piss-poor and making it amazing.

Wordperfect 4.0 was the based for Microsoft Word 1.0 on Windows 3.10 - MS Word had a far simpler UI, it was faster, had better spell check options, was simpler to save and load in.
I personally never liked WP, but until MSWord appeared i didn't have a choice. A few years later you had Lotus trying to get some of the action with WordSuite, it might've had more features but just operated in a way that make it unappealing to alot of people and it died off.

although sure MS started off nicking almost everything, Windows<-MacOS, Word<-WordPerfect, Internet Explorer<-Mozilla, etc...
at the end of the day ... its warrented because they make bloody good applications - Stable, Reliable & Simple to Use with alot of power for advanced users.
Just compare everything on the market that MS has a rival for, and Microsofts version always trumps them - like thier business practises or not, they're bloody good at developing software.

to succeed in todays market you have to be bigger, better and simpler to use - either that or make alot of deals with many many companies.

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2003 09:06
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Quote: "even if they did nick they wouldn't catch up to Microsoft now, no one can - and Microsoft knows that all too well.
add to this Macintosh's technology is quite far behind that of the IBM Compatibles."


erm what ?. Lets see, a clean PPC/G4 based architecture against the kludge box x86 Pentium.. They might lag slight behind in bus advancements (frankly, big deal), then again they are proprietary system after all.

Kevin Picone
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2003 10:50
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G5 64bit 3.0Ghz is the same speed as a Pentium4 3.2Ghz HT
The AlthonXP 3200+ is the same speed as a Pentium4 2.8Ghz HT
The Athlon64 2.0Ghz is the same speed as an AthlonXP 3200+

however thats in x86-32 mode, when you have x86-64 applications suchas DirectX 9.0b is your speed is literally doubled.
The Athlon64 will be out in December along with the new PCI Express and IBMs new OptiRam ... the speed of computing over the next year is literally doubling without the actual speed of anything going up.

Macintosh have only just released the G5's and that was suppose to be thier response to the new Opteron and Itainium2 processors.
Which is a joke in itself because the Opterons also use similar technology to the Athlon64 processors and can out perform 2 Itainium2 Processors running at double the clock speed ... which is impressive enough but when you consider that Opterons only have 1mb Cache and the Itainium2's have 8mb - quite frankly that goes from being just impressive to show just what a gap the x86-64 chipdesign is over the IA-64.
as the new PPC is based around the Alpha64 chipset that gives it a futher disadvantage as it has only 2/3 of the registers that the IA-64 and x86-64 have because its an exclusive 64bit rather than inclusive 32-64 swapchip.

at the end of the day the Athlon64 is going to be the gaming processor of next year because Intels 64bit home computing answer is over a year off - hense the reason they'll be releasing Pentium4 HT processors with larger cache and other little tit-bits.
Even with all of the enhancements AMD has them beat in every single sector ... Business, Home, Game, Budget.
the new range of Athlons - Athlon64, AthlonFX, Duron64, Opteron1K arriving next year quite frankly will give them dominance in all areas.

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AlecM
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2003 11:03
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"...to combat the speed of the new Athlon64"

the Athlon 64 isnt aimed at gamers and its full performance gain is'nt really seen in games.

I may buy this new p4 depending on how soon prescott will be released. The only part of my system that isn't top end is my p4 2.8C which is still plenty fast

Goto http://www.shellshockede.com
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2003 11:30
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Quote: "the Athlon 64 isnt aimed at gamers"


the Athlon64 is the home users version of the Opteron processor.
although not aimed directly at gamers it is aimed at being the superceeding processor to the current market's range, just like Pentium was to the 486 back in the early 90s or the 486 was to the 386.

its the next evolution in the x86 line, whereas intel have basically turned thier back on the x86 line and have been designing a brand new processor from the ground up for the new 64bit era.
and if you don't think the Athlon64 has been setup for games in mind i'd strongly suggest you checkout www.nvidia.com

AMD and nVidia have been working very closely the past year since the release of the GeForceFX to being games and multimedia applications far more power from the nVidia-AMD combinations.

Which is hense the new AthlonFX processor on the horizon, i haven't a clue what it includes - the processor name is just currently floating around ... my guess is that it'll be a game specific version of the AthlonXP for the budget market who can't afford the Athlon64.

but DirectX already take 100% advantage of the Athlon64 in DirectX9, which users will see a HUGE step up in speed.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2003 12:10
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It can only really take off if the price is competitive.


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AlecM
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2003 23:58
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The athlon 64 FX is an AMD64 based cpu targetted at desktops. A 128bit memory controller and the ability to use registered ram modules are the main differences..

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KNau
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Posted: 24th Sep 2003 01:01 Edited at: 24th Sep 2003 01:01
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Quote: "Just compare everything on the market that MS has a rival for, and Microsofts version always trumps them - like thier business practises or not, they're bloody good at developing software."


Absolutely true. The problem the Linux base has is that they fail to grasp the average computer user is a completely inexperienced one who just wants to check e-mail, run Word, listen to MP3s and play Solitaire. They have no interest in the "techy" aspects of operating systems and (as much as I hate it) they LOVE bloatware!

They love that there are dancing colours in Media Player that they can play their music to, they are happy that they can skin media player so that the screen turns into a giant face and the movie files play in the eye sockets (I've actually seen this!) and they are thrilled to death to deliberately install Bonzai Buddy so they can laugh at the purple monkey on their screen. In short, the average computer user is an idiot - the kind of person who receives an e-mail from "asjdhaskdhueet@ajdhfsakhd.com" with the subject "I love you" and runs the attached .exe file

Microsoft is great at delivering what the average computer user wants and that is why they succeed.

http://www.canceriannewmedia.com
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 25th Sep 2003 18:58
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Quote: "G5 64bit 3.0Ghz is the same speed as a Pentium4 3.2Ghz HT
The AlthonXP 3200+ is the same speed as a Pentium4 2.8Ghz HT
The Athlon64 2.0Ghz is the same speed as an AthlonXP 3200+
"


And of course you can produce some benchmark evidence to prove this. According to Spec.org the 2gig g4 at is just behind the3gig p4..


Quote: "
however thats in x86-32 mode, when you have x86-64 applications suchas DirectX 9.0b is your speed is literally doubled.
The Athlon64 will be out in December along with the new PCI Express and IBMs new OptiRam ... the speed of computing over the next year is literally doubling without the actual speed of anything going up.
"


Absolute rubbish. The only parts that are moving to 64bit are the Integer and Address registers. The FPU precision (was already 64bit/80bit) and vector units are the same (128bits). Unless DX9 is purely Integer (which it isn't), it's not going to give %100 speed increase from a moving to 64bit.

There will be gains true, most notably from the AMD doubling the register set from 8 to 16 per data type. .. However the cost of the context switch when running in 'shared' mode, may well make them useless, as Windows/Most APP will be 32bit for some time yet.


Quote: "
Macintosh have only just released the G5's and that was suppose to be thier response to the new Opteron and Itainium2 processors.
Which is a joke in itself because the Opterons also use similar technology to the Athlon64 processors and can out perform 2 Itainium2 Processors running at double the clock speed ... which is impressive enough but when you consider that Opterons only have 1mb Cache and the Itainium2's have 8mb - quite frankly that goes from being just impressive to show just what a gap the x86-64 chipdesign is over the IA-64.
as the new PPC is based around the Alpha64 chipset that gives it a futher disadvantage as it has only 2/3 of the registers that the IA-64 and x86-64 have because its an exclusive 64bit rather than inclusive 32-64 swapchip.
"



erm nope, now your confusing the 128 renaming registers (not user accessible) with actual general purpose registers. AMD64 doubles the previous register set to 16 per type, when in 64bit mode. PPC already have 32 user registers per type, and a better opcode set to boot


Quote: "
at the end of the day the Athlon64 is going to be the gaming processor of next year because Intels 64bit home computing answer is over a year off - hense the reason they'll be releasing Pentium4 HT processors with larger cache and other little tit-bits.
Even with all of the enhancements AMD has them beat in every single sector ... Business, Home, Game, Budget.
the new range of Athlons - Athlon64, AthlonFX, Duron64, Opteron1K arriving next year quite frankly will give them dominance in all areas.
"


It's interesting that your about the person who seems to think it's going to be 'revolution' for gaming. Giving users 2^64 integers and addressable memory space, is not going to give you blinding gaming performance. Their simply relying on dead heads being drawn into the bigger is beater mindset and thus rushing out to buy into a 64bit cpu asap.. Then again, that is the PC way.

Kevin Picone
Play Basic - Visible Worlds - Kyruss II
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lagmaster
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Posted: 25th Sep 2003 19:11
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ah uw good info there. just a shame you had to update someone about it

lagmasteruk - lagmaster.net is alive! r.nash@ntlworld.com
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empty
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Posted: 25th Sep 2003 23:53
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The PPCs are very impressive. Just compare your favourite Windows based audio sequencer to one running on a Mac and you'll see what I mean.

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Preston C
21
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Joined: 16th May 2003
Location: Penn State University Park
Posted: 26th Sep 2003 00:21
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I like PPC's too, running around in my NovaCat, getting a good sniping position, and blast my opponents head right off of his mechanical shoulders


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