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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / General Noob help

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Thermic Developer
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Posted: 2nd May 2010 23:43
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Me and some of my friends decided a while back to make a good ole RPG that was focused on giving a good gaming experience, rather than focus on profits. Anyways I am wondering on hoe feasible this RPG idea is...

It would be an RPG on Julius Caesar's life and how he raised and empire. I don't have a deadline and I am more than content to spend the next 3 years slowly adding to this game. However, I need a set of tools that I can use that won't kill my under $300 budget.

I looked around the GD website and I assume that I should get the Dark Studio (btw, how long will it be 70% off), but what other software do I need (besides Studio and Visual Express C++)

Feature that interest me:

-I want to be able to make my own models
-I need to be able to make projectiles (javelins,arrows,etc.)
-I want to be able to do attack animations/character animations
-I want to have a sort of marble looking User Interface.
-I want to be able to make cut scenes
-I need the player to see his character form a third person point of view.

I have done programming before, and I know some basic C++ along with concepts of OOP. I have a friend that is good with concept art and story boarding. My budget is $300.

Can I make this game, with Dark studio/ game developers Software or do I need to look somewhere else, or am I crazy to expect to be able to do this at all?

If I can make this with GD software; which ones do you suggest I buy?

Thanks in advance.

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
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Interplanetary Funk
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Posted: 3rd May 2010 00:31 Edited at: 3rd May 2010 00:35
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-I want to be able to make my own models - AC3D
-I need to be able to make projectiles (javelins,arrows,etc.) -AC3D
-I want to be able to do attack animations/character animations - Modelling program, I'm not sure if ac3d can do animation and bones.
-I want to have a sort of marble looking User Interface. - if you get dark studio, extends comes with xgui =)
-I want to be able to make cut scenes - Can be done in most modelling programs by rendering a video, I think DBPro can play AVI files. if not, use fraps?
-I need the player to see his character form a third person point of view. - can be done via programming.

also, its not too crazy, it'll take a lot of time, and you'll probably want to buy the books on DBPro first and read them. Also, I could never get DGDK to work with the plugins properly so I'm using DBPro which is very nice with the DGS editor and is a nice simple to understand and learn language. If you want to do this as a hobby I'd say DBPro simply because its easy to quickly develop basic engines without writing thousands of lines of DirectX wrapper functions before you can even start.
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NickH
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Posted: 3rd May 2010 01:09 Edited at: 3rd May 2010 01:10
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Darkstudio has some of the basics you'd need. For the animation part theres a plugin called "advanced animations" which helps play them. As for making 3D models/ animations and cut scenes theres a million and 1 programs that do that, but for your budget I'd go with Blender as it's free. Not many of the cheaper 3D software packages are actually worth the money, so you may as well go for Blender, though theres Truspace, but that's recently stopped being developed. For texturing and GUI graphics get GIMP if you've not got anything for decent image editing/ creation. Theres a few plugins for that you can get to load and save DDS files and render a normal map, that'd come in handy later. If/ when you got to editing a cut scene I'd recommend MoviePlus X3. I only bought it the other day and it's great.

The thing is you'll have to be prepared for a lot of experimentation and rewrites of your game at first. In a perfect world you could buy everything and a month or 2 later the game's finished, but unfortunatly it's a long process especially in a small team of inexperienced developers. I'd recommend a book or 2 on game design to go with it.
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Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 3rd May 2010 17:10
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Yes, I recommend Blender as well. It is very well featured (will do all of the modelling-related things you listed: Modelling characters and projectiles, object and skeletal animations, rendering to .avi, and much more), and is freeware. It's a bit of a task to learn, but well worth it in my opinion. Learning 3D modelling in general is also a large task in itself, and will take you a long time to get good at, so don't become discouraged when it does. Good luck

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Van B
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Posted: 3rd May 2010 17:32
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GIMP and Blender should not be your options for media creation. Especially not GIMP.

PSP9 is a great art package, it has all the usual airbrushing etc that you find in Photoshop, but it is also great for detailed pixel editing. PSP should cost around $60.

I can't recommend a modelling package, except maybe Truespace because it's free, in fact try as many free packages as you can (Wings3D, Sketchup etc) because then you'll get experience and maybe have an idea for the sort of package you want to use. I have found that if you don't have at least a few hundred pounds to spend, then you might as well forget buying a modelling package. I use Rhino3D and 3DSMax, but those are the only excessively expensive softwares I use. I like CharacterFX for animation, and I really like Unwrap3D for UV mapping, CFX is free and Unwrap is only about £30. I tend to use a few different packages when making media, model in Rhino3D, UV map in Unwrap3D, then animate in CharacterFX before exporting right to .X, and loading right into DBPro.

There are some useful demos too - like Deep Exploration, that is a fantastic tool for texture mapping, as you save in the art package and it'll update on the Deep Exploration view, very neat.

So lots of options, lots of things to look at - make your own mind up but try anything that is suggested. I personally hate Blender and GIMP, but I also have some real nice packages to rely on instead. You'll find that you can make do, and accept shortcummings as long as you can actually get the results, so persevere and try lots of things, try and find a good work flow.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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NickH
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Posted: 3rd May 2010 17:38 Edited at: 3rd May 2010 17:41
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Yeah to make a good 3D game there are a lot of skills required. If you have a team then each one can concentrate on what they're good at.

Game design
-Level design

Programming

3D modelling
-Texturing and other 2D image creation

Audio
-Sound effects
-Music creation (though you can easily buy royalty free tracks)

@Kira Vakaan
I've never used Blender for more than a few mins here n there. Do you know if I can import a Lightwave model (.LWO) with Endomorphs and mix them like in LW then export these animations to an .x file? (Changing the subject for a min) The Lightwave exporter is good at everything but morph animations.
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Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 3rd May 2010 17:55
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@NickH: Hm, I'm not sure. I've never used Lightwave, so I'm not familiar with those terms. A quick browse in my .blender/scripts folder turned up import_lightwave_motion.py and lightwave_import.py. Those might be worthwhile checking out. It can't hurt to try importing everything. As for morph animations, assuming you mean animation through morph targets, the DirectX file format does not support it. If you mean skeletal deformation, we should be okay.

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Interplanetary Funk
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Posted: 3rd May 2010 18:57
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Quote: "I really like Unwrap3D for UV mapping, CFX is free and Unwrap is only about £30"


There's also a free version of unwrap (unwrap classic) which is also very good, I use it all the time.
another good graphics program is serif photoplus, it's similar to photoshop, but not as expensive and with less tutorials and effects, but it's good for its price, also there's also a free version of that =) (http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/software/photoplus/)

and I agree that you should try every free bit of modelling software you can get, thought mind where you download them from, I've downloaded quite a few dodgy files while looking for a modelling program.
and for basic character animation I found character shop (from TGC ofc) very good for things like shooters, but I doubt they'd be much use for historical figures animation. I've never used characterfx but having a quick look it is free =)

If you have a look around the internet there are several sites linking to the best freeware for making games, though the good ones can be hard to find.
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NickH
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Posted: 3rd May 2010 19:05 Edited at: 3rd May 2010 19:07
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@Kira Vakaan

Hehe in Lightwave though Morph targets are very similar to "Endomorphs" they're not as easy to control. You can make a base model of a face for instance and make all of the facial expressions n mix all the expressions together to produce a full facial expression....if that makes sense

Quote: "As for morph animations, assuming you mean animation through morph targets, the DirectX file format does not support it"


That'll explain why it doesn't do it then, I thought it did. I'll have a play with Blender one day. I've been using Lightwave for about 10 years now, it's hard to get into any other 3D package though
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The Viking
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Posted: 3rd May 2010 20:03
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I don't see what is wrong with GIMP, I use it, and with some brush upgrades it works decent, though long loading time. As for a modeller, personally, I wouldn't really recommend blender. I tried it and can't get it to export properly. Not only that, it can be hard to get use to. I use Gamespace, which is pretty much the same as Truespace. It works great. It'll do the modelling and animations.

As for cut-scenes, I wouldn't recommend using video cutscenes. In game cut-scenes work so much nicer. There is no extra loadings no large avi files to work with, just manipulating what you have already presently loaded.

www.myspace.com/norseblod
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Thermic Developer
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Posted: 3rd May 2010 23:56
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Wow thanks for all the replies =)

I do have one last question, form experience would you recommend I develop this game with DBPro or using the DGDK with Visual C++ Express ( I have a crap load of documentation on C++ and Visual C++ Express, A few books. )

Specifically what I'm asking about is;

Can I use the addons for DBPro in the DGDK?
How easy is it to puut all the programming and visual designs together using DGDK compared to DBPRO?

and lastly; Is this 70% off promotion going to last till end of June (roughly the time I'm getting a new computer.)

Once again thanks for all the replies =)

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
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Interplanetary Funk
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Posted: 4th May 2010 02:10
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I couldn't get the plugins to work with DGDK even though they're meant to. also, you can't use extends with DGDK and ultimately it comes down to which language you're more comfortable with. I personally prefer c++ for programs, but DBPro for games. If you use c++ it would be a better idea to write your own DirectX wrapper and engine as ultimately it could be a far faster program than if written in DGDK.
plus DBPro is a nice easy to understand language so you don't have to explain what you're doing in your code as much.
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Thermic Developer
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Posted: 4th May 2010 02:59
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ok, so would I be able to get all the scoring/skills/worlds/object interaction/Quest system and such coded through DBPro? The reason, I'm hesitant is because I have never seen the abilities of DBPro First hand. I guess as a sum up before I make a decision here would be, can DBPro handle all the systems of an RPG?

Sorry for repetitiveness, however, I have had some bad experiences before with software where I bought it for a purpose and it wasn't able to fill that purpose.

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
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Homey the Clown
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Posted: 4th May 2010 04:17
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Well Dark Basic Professional by itself is free... so it doesn't hurt to tinker with that.

I am going to be brutally honest though, most people here start games thinking they are going to sell them and aren't even able to finish them. Make sure you understand and plan out how you want your game to work. Once you do that, make it simpler.. Try not to aim at making it look like Fallout 3 or any other professional title. Making games is a hobby that a lot of people enjoy, make sure you enjoy your own games and making them before thinking about selling them to the public. Dark Basic Professional enables a lot of potential for game making and has game making in mind. RPG's can be created through Dark Basic but you have to be creative and clever enough to pull it off. Its no walk in the park but Dark Basic Pro is a lot more easier than using just C++.

I know that once you get the hang of Dark Basic Pro, making games becomes a bit quicker and easier. Its finishing them that becomes the hassle. I hope I didn't scare you away. Just want to let you know what you are up against. Takes plenty of time, devotion, and thinking to get a good game working. But make sure you have fun making the game. The best part is that there is a REALLY supportive community here at the forums who can help you out.


If at first you dont succeed, call it version 1.0.
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