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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / DarkBasic Pro versus Blitz3D

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LondonKid
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Posted: 11th May 2010 17:27
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Guyz,

Not sure if this topic belongs in this forum or not - my apologies if it doesn't.

I have come across a lot of discussions on the Internet that compare DarkBasic against Blitz Basic 3D, and there have been a lot of negative feedback against the DarkBasic product. It has been mentioned that:

* DB is slow and error prone - while Blitz3D is fast
* DB code is long winded - while B3D is compact and fast
* The end executable created by DB is not portable - e.g does not work 100% on all machines

What are the views of the DP gurus on this? Are these just malicious attacks on the DB product?

I do hope I haven't offended anyone here...

Thanks
LK
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Mobiius
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Posted: 11th May 2010 18:49 Edited at: 11th May 2010 18:51
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Oh, here we go again, Queue the flames.

Simple answer. Try it and make your own freakin mind up! This is a DBP forum so of course you'll get a lot of Pro DBP, Anti Blitz comments. The only way to be sure is to try it yourself.

But here's my answers:

1) DB is slow and error prone - while Blitz3D is fast
It's all down to efficient coding. DBP is fast enough to compete in it's market segment quite capably.

2) DB code is long winded - while B3D is compact and fast
DBP uses a basic syntax, just like blitz. It's down to individual users opinion as to whether it's compact or not.

3) The end executable created by DB is not portable - e.g does not work 100% on all machines.
Bullsh!t. If your machine is DirectX 9.0c March 10 compliant, the application will run. Simple as that.

(Note, Blitz is based on directX 7, so is incapable of running pixel/vertex shaders whereas DBP can.)

My signature is NOT a moderator plaything! Stop changing it!
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chafari
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Posted: 11th May 2010 19:18
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I have Bliz,and I have done some little programs with it, and the only thing that I liked more, was the collision....it was time ago, when I didn´t have sparky´s collision Dll that is completely free and works much better than Bliz.If I have to make a new serious project I will take Dbpro,since it is faster than the Bliz.

As far as I know, with Dbpro, you can make final encrypted file, white with Bliz you will have your final exe + all you media visible for everyone.

The only decent program I've seen with Bliz was one of Super Mario .I don`t criticize the Bliz, but I wouldn`t use it for my projects.


cheers.

I'm not a grumpy grandpa
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 11th May 2010 19:38
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Quote: "The end executable created by DB is not portable - e.g does not work 100% on all machines"


Off-hand I can't think of any exe from any language that meets that criterion. Can you suggest one that does?
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Van B
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Posted: 11th May 2010 21:46
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If DBPro is good enough for the intel app store, then it should be good enough for any indi developer. I rarely, VERY rarely if ever see an indi game that cannot have been made in DBPro.

The best thing about DBPro though is the community, I have a bit of history with BlitzCoder, I remember the flame wars and frankly theres no place for them in modern indi development. It's better to just experiment with the language and see if it sticks, then stick with it.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 11th May 2010 21:52
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blitz SUCKS! i LOVE dbpro!
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Benjamin
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Posted: 11th May 2010 21:54
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If you're wondering which to get then I'd recommend that you try both out (assuming Blitz Basic has a trial), check out some tutorials, take a look at the showcases for both, and read reviews of both products.

As for those points, in my eyes they don't make a lot of sense (apart from the speed point, but I haven't done any comparisons so I don't know personally).
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Sharlenwar
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Posted: 11th May 2010 22:03
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This is funny. These thread pop up everywhere. If you look around in the C++, C#, Java, whatever, you'll find the same all over. It all comes down to how you code your program and organize it. That is one thing I'm learning with DBPro, the programming language is amazing and handles a ton of the 3d crap that you would have to code with C++. Blitz3D, which I own a copy of, is similar to DBPro. How active is the Blitz3D community? The reason I left there was because I found The Game Creator community to be a bit more active. So for learning the language and getting help, I figured DBPro was the choice. Not to mention, you can make practically anything you would ever need with DBPro, just have to get good with the language.

Then again, what do I know?
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LondonKid
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Posted: 12th May 2010 16:55
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Guyz,

Thanks for all the comments.

Like I mentioned in my original post - I did not mean to offend (because TGC has large loyal following - so "Mobiius" - chill out matey ).

I bought the DarkGAME Studio a few months back after I saw FPSCreator (still getting to grips with the product). But, while browsing the NET, I came across a lot of other Game Engines, Blitz Basic being one of them - and a lot of forums comparing the two products. So just wanted to find out more.

Truely speaking, from what I have seen of DBPro, its pretty easy to get into. I still have a lot to learn.

And like Mobiius mentioned Blitz3D is only Dx7 compatible, while DBPro is Dx9 - which does make it a better system.

Thanks Guyz
LK
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Van B
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Posted: 12th May 2010 17:19
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LondonKid,
That's the thing, these are the antiquated opinions that are still floating around the internet, and they always try to make DBPro seem like an inferior product, despite the fact that it's 2 or arguably more versions of DX ahead of it's rival. I mean DBPro is updated like twice a year now with a lot of movement towards open sourcing DBPro as well as supporting new features. My point is that these opinions are about 6 years old, TGC has proven those opinions wrong over and over, and it's pretty depressing that they still crop up. We know it's not your mindset, it's the mindset of a hater who is deluded in their narrow little world, so much that they can't peek out their heads and get a fresh perspective.

Sharlenwar,
Sounds like you know plenty - that's exactly the point, it's a case of getting stuck in with A language and not dwelling in developer limbo. There will always be options, better and worse for a particular job. I find that DBPro is capable of housing any project I come up with - so it's hard to care about some narrow-minded coder's out-of-date opinions and procrastination and general lack of progress. A lot of professionals use DBPro to prototype ideas, like the lead developer behind Crysis for example. Professional developers are really in the same mindset as experienced indi developers. It's results that matter, not how confusing the code is... obfuscation should be punishable by death . My new project will be ported to the iPhone, and TGC's developers are already doing this (Goals for instance by Ravey) - it's logic and design that matter in the end, not code syntax.


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Neco
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Posted: 12th May 2010 21:22 Edited at: 12th May 2010 21:23
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I would have liked to give Blitzmax a serious try, but I found the utter lack of a comparable community, with good code samples and decent documentation, to be a real hurdle.

However its worth nothing, BlitzMax also supports OpenGL and multiple platforms for coding and compiling runable executables.

Everything has its own trade offs in some way. But like has been said you need to try both out, and decide for yourself.

Personally, it took me 15 minutes to figure out how to actually get text to print on the screen - I was not too thrilled about that. Although once I got it figured out via some reading/research I could understand why it was done that way.

But they basically drop you in the sandbox and give you your toys without much of a manual.

I have found some games produced with Blitz to look a bit more polished and appealing that the atypical DB example, though. But again it comes down to the person and how well they click with the language too.

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DVader
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Posted: 14th May 2010 01:19
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Blitz Basic was a great product a few years ago, but is showing its age now. However it is really fast at 2d stuff in comparison with DB pro. Its 3D as well is nippy and probably faster than DB pro again, but has no modern hardware support and is limited nowadays.
Both are very similar, although I find DB easier to use in general. The forums here are also way superior to the blitz ones. From my experience you mostly have to rely on yourself to code stuff. the help on the blitz forums is way less forthcoming. I assume that is because there are lots more people who frequent it.
Blitz has however I think, more commercial releases under it's belt. At least retail boxed product. Binman and Platypus are two I can think of offhand, there were lots more. There is of course the new Blitzmax, which I have not tried, but is supposedly pretty good.
Horses for courses as said by a few peeps above.

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Aubergine
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Posted: 14th May 2010 10:29
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Get Unity3D and all your headaches will be gone.
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Van B
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Posted: 14th May 2010 11:28
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Quote: "Binman and Platypus are two I can think of offhand, there were lots more."


Commercial? - the Blitz games were published by a very 'indi' publisher, it's not like these games were huge. What about that driving test thing made in DB, that was bigger than both those game put together. The guy who coded that is the same guy who coded Binman (Ravey). He uses GDK and XCode now.

It depends how you look at it - if you have a publisher who's willing to publish any old crap, it's pretty easy to get published . I'm not saying the games mentioned are crap, but the rest of them were pretty much guaranteed to be absolute garbage. Games that we'd probably release for competitions, they released commercially and probably made a humiliating number of sales. A lot of DB'ers have been contacted by these publishers in the past, but I don't think anyone really bothered with it.

I've got a feeling that a lot of Blitz users migrated onto XNA rather than Blitzmax or anything else.


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LondonKid
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Posted: 14th May 2010 19:30
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Van b:
You do have point there - a publisher would publish crap in-order to promote their product, and to increase the quantity of products on their sales list. But one has to understand if these are aimed at the commercial "mass" market like games of today (or even yesteryear) or are they just aimed at cowboy coders to get them excited about earning a few bob writing crap.

While doing my own research into the different engines, I came across a lot of crap examples that had been created just for the sake of promoting the game engine/language. Ofcourse, the better ones out there cost an arm and a leg (£500 plus) - and the end product reflects that.

DarkBasic is a cheap and cheerful product with the option of expandibility (with the add-on packs et al). The main selling point for me over the other systems was the special offer at the time of DarkGAME Studio (although the DBPro itself was well worth the price - and I didn't want to spend all my pocket money ) and the fact that it had so much to offer - mainly the fact that FPS Creator was written with the product was a winner in my eyes.

LK
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