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Indicium
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Posted: 31st May 2010 15:27
Hello everyone

I've just been playing Nazi Zombies, and I've thought... well i've never tried to make a shooter before, so I've decided to give it a try. I've never really been able to stick to a project, so i'm hoping I can make this exciting enough to stick with it. But i'm not sure what to do yet. The main dilemma i face is whether or not to do it as a FPS, or a top down shooter. If i were to go with the FPS route, then I'd have to think about stuff such as:

1) Character and enemy models - I can't really model to save my life...

2) How to make buildings etc, I've tried it in google sketchup before, and used a X exporter, however, using the inbuilt collision commands, it just treats it as a box instead of a building with different walls... I'm not sure if it's a problem with the exporter, or that the collision commands are just limited in that respect and that i'd have to learn sparky's.

3) Lightmaps, What software can you use to make lightmaps? Hopefully some free stuff.

If I were to go with the top down:

1) I could possilby give up more easily because i wouldn't find it as immersive and enjoyable to make... prehaps.

2) I have no idea how to do shooting with 2d, I can in 3d because I know how to use the intersect object command, although it is slow, i don't know of any 2d counterpart for sprites.

3) I could make spites for buildings quite easily but i have no idea how to perform collision.

Any thoughts on either 2d or 3d would be much appriciated.

Many Thanks

Rawwrr. Sig Fail.
Newcastle is awesome
Van B
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Posted: 31st May 2010 16:45
Well with top down, you can use array based collision quite effectively. Meaming you would have a maze of sorts, flat walls and 90 degree corners. But the benefit is that its really easy to allow sliding collision, it is very very fast, and very very reliable.

I would advise using 3D models mostly, maybe characters can be billboard sprites, but buildings and stuff like that, really it's best to stick to 3D. For example, I could make a 3D building in a few minutes, but I've no idea how long it would take me to draw a 2D building sprite.

You could use point-to-point bullets, so they could be very fast without missing a collision, line to circle based collision should be plenty for your characters. If you imagine a little circle around the waist, and a circle under each shoulder, top down - a bullet hitting those circles is pretty damn accurate for character->bullet collision. Most 2D shooters will use lines, circles, but mostly cubes for bullet collision - so a little cluster of circles is probably better than most options. With the trajectory of your bullet, you form a line that can be checked with a circle for collision, there are a few examples of this about.

The main factor in these games is speed, things have to be smooth and fluid, or they are no fun at all - so it might seem like a step back to use array based collision, or line-circle collision, but actually that's what facilitates them, that's why they can be really fast paced and have lots of effects and enemies on screen.

For me, I'd probably like to make a game like that, fast paced and arcadey, lots of blood and guts, and even if your art is not 100% perfect, people will still get into it. Having thoutful touches here and there is more important than glorious visuals - it's an indi game, not a limp-wristed Unreal mod .

I would suggest buying the original DarkMatter model set - low poly characters, easy enough to break them up and make character meshes, lots of vehicles, lots of weapons. It has a lot of models that you would find usefull, just the right detail level for a modern top down shooter. With 3D models it's easy to change the textures, so having lots of enemies all looking different is possible. Also you might just use a 128x128 texture map per character, which should be fine for a top down game - on the other hand, if you did sprites then you couldn't fit very much in that space.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Dark Dragon
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Posted: 31st May 2010 17:43
Quote: "Well with top down, you can use array based collision quite effectively. Meaming you would have a maze of sorts, flat walls and 90 degree corners. But the benefit is that its really easy to allow sliding collision, it is very very fast, and very very reliable."



Darn, Van B beat me to it..........

I'd suggest going with whatever you are more experianced in - 3d or 2d............Sprites can always be found on the net, but for me models are a pain in the butt to make...

DVader
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 01:31
I believe Blender does light mapping and more. If you can use it. I must have loaded it up 10 times over the past few years and never got on with it. But it is free..

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
jfroco
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 05:48
Hello Mad Nightmare,

I can't model either, so I have bought a lot of FPSC model packs from TGC: they include characers, buildings and furnitures, and for my tests and proofs of concepts that's all I need.

For map creation I use Map Scape. It's free and incredible easy to use. It includes lightmapping: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=163867&b=5


I generally use Sparky's collision DLL for map sliding collision (sc_sphereslidegroup)and for bullet collision (sc_groupcollision).

I used FPSC model packs and Map scape in this top down engine: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=165947&b=8

Regarding shooting... the only difference between 2D and 3D is that I keep y = constant for all objects.

Hope this helps.

Best regards
baxslash
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 14:46
Sounds to me like you want to do a FPS but are worried about learning loads of new stuff.

Sparky's is pretty easy actually! Well worth learning and very accurate.

If you can make stuff in sketchup then you could export to 3DS too (I do this all the time and here is a quick example of a game I'm making using only sketchup for modelling!: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=169135&b=8), but I imagine your X exporter will be OK with sparky's!

As has been said regarding characters you could buy one or two FPSC model packs and have enough to build a game!

Map-scape is pretty good for lightmapping and if you want to have a little more control over lightmapping you could upgrade to DarkLights in the future.

I'd say just give it a go and take the hurdles one at a time

Indicium
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 16:43 Edited at: 1st Jun 2010 16:59
Thanks for the advice everybody!

I think I will go with the FPS, and I may look into getting some FPSC Model packs and DarkMatter, I might get the DGS Bonanza, because it's an amazing deal, and I actually have no plugins. So darklights would be amazing! I'll take a look at mapscape, and I'll see if I can get accurate collision with my SketchUp buildings with sparky's.

@jfroco: That project looks awesome! I like the effect, the lighting and objects look great.

EDIT: Hey, so I've modelled a simple room in SketchUp, I've textured it and exported it. It loads into darkbasic fine. I'm wondering whether I can just import this X file and the textures into mapscape and lightmap it from there?

Thanks!

Rawwrr. Sig Fail.
Newcastle is awesome
baxslash
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 17:05
DarkMatter is OK but the quality isn't as good as the model packs, plus if you're buying both you'll have to set up characters differently on the same game...

Quote: "I might get the DGS Bonanza, because it's an amazing deal"

It certainly is! I have found it well worth the money!!

Indicium
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 19:23
Right... I have a room modeled, I can light it within darkbasic, but is there a program I can lightmap it in, or can it be lightmapped in darkbasic?

Rawwrr. Sig Fail.
Newcastle is awesome
baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 19:30 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 19:34
Mapscape:
EDIT: Something weird going on with the link here... hold on I'll check it out!!

Indicium
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 19:34
Thanks, I did search for it, but it confused me that I had to download the pages, or is that just me?

Rawwrr. Sig Fail.
Newcastle is awesome
baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 23:05
Indicium
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Posted: 4th Jun 2010 03:42
Okay this has been bugging me for hours, the problem is, when I export my map in mapscape to DBO, the textures are like this (attached). As you can see in the next photo i'll attach, it tooks nothing like it should!

I just kept the default lightmapping settings of:

Texture size: 512x512
resolution: medium
blur: 1
Amb Occ:off
ray length: 20
curved surface: 0

The lights have a range of 500.

Any advice?

Rawwrr. Sig Fail.
Newcastle is awesome
Indicium
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Posted: 4th Jun 2010 03:44
What it should look like.

Rawwrr. Sig Fail.
Newcastle is awesome
jfroco
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Posted: 4th Jun 2010 09:25
Hello,

I've never tried with DBO... Have you tried exporting to .x?

Best regards

JF
Indicium
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Posted: 4th Jun 2010 16:51 Edited at: 4th Jun 2010 21:33
X doesn't export the lightmaps.

But after attempting it, and then retrying dbo, the lightmaps are fixed!

Okay... and now they're not working again...

Rawwrr. Sig Fail.
Newcastle is awesome

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