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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Temp Sticky: Notice of Moderation (Forum Clean-up).

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KeithC
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Posted: 10th Jun 2010 15:46 Edited at: 27th Jun 2010 19:33
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As a Follow-On to the new Sticky, there will be some heavier moderation coming down. What do I mean by this? I'll explain...

For some time now, some members have skirted the AUP/Rules with inflammatory comments and criticism of other's work. As when we first came on board as FPSC Mods, that is about to change.

This place is for the healthy and productive discussion of the usage of TGC products, and the development of member's creations. What this place is not about is "slamming" another member's work in any way, shape, or form. Non-Constructive Posts in particular have gotten out of hand. If you have nothing of value to add to the conversation...then post nothing. What do I mean by nothing of value? Statements such as:

- "This game sucks"
- "You really don't know what you're doing"
- "You're acting like a child"
- "Just return your copy of FPSC; you're obviously a moron"

Here's what should have been said in those instances:

- "This game could use some work; here's my 2 cents..."
- "I don't think you fully understand how to do this, let me help you out..."
- "I'm not quite sure you understand what I'm saying"
- "You don't seem to be grasping the concept, is there anything I can do to help?"

Again; if you don't want to help or offer encouragement, then don't post...it's that simple. Using someone else's thread as a "soapbox" will get you moderated.

Does this mean you can't disagree with someone in their thread? Absolutely not. It's how you verbalize your disagreement that can cause you problems.

A few other actions that will be taken:

- Locked threads will be evaluated for their content; if there is nothing of value (such as the threads asking for customer support), they will be deleted.

- Non-Constructive posts (after member moderation) will be deleted.

- Image requirements will be enforced (in the appropriate sections).

- WIP/Showcase Board Rules will be enforced.

Feel free to discuss this, if you wish.



-Keith
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xplosys
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Posted: 10th Jun 2010 16:07
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I'm happy to see discussion and more user input - most importantly the request for more user input - concerning our forum. It is after all ours. I would have chimed in before now except that I have had nothing to add and have no problem with the requirements and procedures you put forth in other recent threads. (Yeah, amazing, I know.)

I completely agree with your thoughts on "non-constructive posts" where they are mean spirited but I hope this doesn't extend to humor as it started to a while back. I know it's sometimes hard to tell humor from just being a jerk, but I'd hate to see the forum lose it's fun atmosphere.

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Dr Parsnips
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Posted: 10th Jun 2010 16:14
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I agree with all of this. However, I think special care should be made to make sure new members no the reason for locked threads. Otherwise we might intimidate new users off.

But I really agree with the Non-Constructive posts point. It's all well and good giving people criticism but it needs to be constructive. Alot of pweople use criticism as an excuse to be a jerk to people and then state that the person can't take it and should grow up or get out of the business. So I'm glad this will be monitored now.

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KeithC
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Posted: 10th Jun 2010 16:15
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Quote: "I hope this doesn't extend to humor as it started to a while back. I know it's sometimes hard to tell humor from just being a jerk, but I'd hate to see the forum lose it's fun atmosphere."


That what strategically placed smilies are for, Brian.

-Keith

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KeithC
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Posted: 10th Jun 2010 16:17 Edited at: 10th Jun 2010 16:19
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Quote: "However, I think special care should be made to make sure new members no the reason for locked threads. Otherwise we might intimidate new users off."

I agree. We have an automated response list we can draw from when locking (to keep us from having to type in the same thing every time); I'm going to see about adding a few more commonly used "locking reasons" to the list.

Additionally; we've agreed that we'll try to start leaving threads that don't have the required screenshot(s) unlocked for a day, to give the member a chance to fix it.

-Keith

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Dr Parsnips
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Posted: 10th Jun 2010 16:24
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Quote: "I agree. We have an automated response list we can draw from when locking (to keep us from having to type in the same thing every time); I'm going to see about adding a few more commonly used "locking reasons" to the list.

Additionally; we've agreed that we'll try to start leaving threads that don't have the required screenshot(s) unlocked for a day, to give the member a chance to fix it."


Perfect! Seems its all been thought of!

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Defy
FPSC BOTB Developer
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Posted: 10th Jun 2010 16:28 Edited at: 10th Jun 2010 17:30
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An area which gets my support.

By all means not directed to any users, however I remember when I first joined here. I was searching around the net looking for outside fpsc projects sites that may not have been posted in WIP/Showcase here.
And to my surprise came across forums/blogs and reviews which pin pointed the users in general on the TGC forums. And the low vibe that was presented or more so hate that loomed around each threads corner.

From my experience in other large communitees, often a negative response would be overlooked, not brought up in the current discussion. However it looks some users may have pushed it too far and this is the result.

This is a game engine forum held via the company who makes it. So even if you dont see their presense, they can still view each single post.

Users can range from young and old, however at some point in time a user may overlook how to use a feature of the engine to a higher standard or custom config. They may never work it out, and press on working in other areas.
If a user knows what can be done to improve an area of design, why not offer a link, solution or other. You may be on the other end later down the track and need help yourself. If not, its still a good thing to do rather than being negative or as Keith has mentioned just leave it.

In many things around the world, there is going to be the differences in quality thats just how we evolve. Offer a friendly tip, you may make a new friend, who knows.


To all the users, lets up the standard of FPSC for outside of the forums. soon the new update will be here and we should enjoy these times while we can and support one another.
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KeithC
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Posted: 10th Jun 2010 20:57 Edited at: 10th Jun 2010 20:58
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Just got done clearing out most of the locked threads in the first page of every FPSC Board (a few remained, as they were still relevant). I am also getting ready to lock the first WIP thread that is not in compliance with the basic rules of WIP Thread creation (I've given them some time to change it). As I said; all threads created before the crackdown are grandfathered in, so don't worry. HOWEVER; I would very much appreciate it, if all thread authors would amend their initial post to conform with the basic requirements of a WIP Thread.

-Keith

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Thraxas
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Posted: 11th Jun 2010 08:21
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Quote: "if all thread authors would amend their initial post to conform with the basic requirements of a WIP Thread."


I know you mean me

Your signature has been [mod edited] :-p
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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 11th Jun 2010 19:34
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On topic real quick of the smiles, check this difference:

Geez, you're not very good at this.

Geez, you're not very good at this.

The second one implies friendship and playfulness. Also add a compliment after that, so they know you're just messing with them.

Just thought I should say that.

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SekoIdiootti
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Posted: 12th Jun 2010 21:42
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About the non-constructive posts...
There have been MANY threads (in the WIP), in which I'd have wanted to post something like "Umm, are you serious? This game sucks..." but I haven't, because I'm afraid of getting slapped or banned...
But I mean, those ARE constructive posts. I mean, not if it's only that, but you know... Is it considered flaming or spamming to say that, and reasons why it sucks? I mean, there's been SO MANY games people make, that only use stock prefabs and nothing else... And they say they worked hard on it... I mean, is that considered trolling? Because people can't go and say "Oooh it's awesome yay can't wait more" or something like that, without lying... You know what I mean? Shouldn't WIPs be real WIPs, and not just... well... made in a minute things?

Sorry again. And sorry if I say "sorry" in almost every post... It's because... well... I don't want to get banned.

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PW Productions
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Posted: 12th Jun 2010 21:51
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Well, saying "It sucks." is generally quite rude, even when coupled with reasons why it 'sucks'. However, saying something less negative, such as "This needs more work" or "There are a few flaws" is often found to be more positive and welcomed.

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Nbt
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Posted: 13th Jun 2010 04:36
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Hmmmm... Where I fully agree that over negative comments can be rather harsh on a members efforts and self-esteem and completely understand how "This Sucks" etc can be very non-constructive.

Yet I really hope we do not go the way of many other game making kit sites with endless "Keep up the good work" comments because they are of no use what so ever either.

I have seen people post rubbish after rubbish never improving because of members too scared to post other than "wow man" and "keep up the work" comments.

I for one utterly love honest negative comments on my efforts, as it is the only way I will ever improve. I for one find the generic "keep up the work" to be more detrimental than "I hate it" or "It sucks", as "keep up the work" is little better than saying "to be honest I can't be arsed to comment on your work, but want to increase my post count and forum presence"

Face it, in the end the only people who really take offence to negative feedback are people who already believe they are the best thing since sliced bread and generic brown nosing comments really won't help them

Anyway "Keep up the good work" Keith

Your signature has been erased by a mod. The sig needs to be 600 width maximum (x 120 height) for all of it.
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KeithC
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Posted: 13th Jun 2010 05:17
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As was mentioned; saying "this sucks", even followed by some actual criticism, isn't acceptable. Just like in life; if you want to have an actual conversation, do so in a "civilized" manner. You can be critical, without being condescending or rude...it is possible.

-Keith

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Plystire
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Posted: 13th Jun 2010 09:27
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"This is absolute rubbish! Your lighting is off in almost all of your screenshots. You really need to fix that, it's crap right now! Perhaps if you..."

vs.

"The lighting in your screenshots don't flow very well. You may want to look into fixing that sometime. Perhaps if you..."

Same message... but one's nicer than the other. The first form is rude, inflamatory, and absolutely unnecessary. Not only that, but you're spending MORE time typing insults than if you were to just say it in a nicer tone.

Is it honestly HARD for people to not use "crap" or "this sucks" in their posts? Honestly?

I use a swear word in practically every sentence when I'm not here on the boards. That's just how I am. But it's not hard to type without them when I'm here.


The one and only,


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SekoIdiootti
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Posted: 13th Jun 2010 12:34
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Nbt: Well, I actually only comment those "keep up the good work" etc honestly...

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KeithC
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Posted: 13th Jun 2010 15:37
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Even the "keep up the good work" or "nice job" posts are helpful; in that they boost the developer's sense of accomplishment and give them that little extra boost to keep going. Sometimes people are only on the site for a minute or two, and all they have time for is a quick "kudos".

-Keith

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 13th Jun 2010 22:36
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I miss the days here where I could join in the daily flame war They were always fun! And I'd never get in trouble haha. I have no chance of being voted funniest forumer again without the flame wars! haha.

But on a serious note, it is pretty ridiculous when people comment on other's work. However, I don't think we'll ever really be able to stop people from saying things like, "your work sucks." There's always going to be at least one tard who comments like that.

Signature's are stupid.
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PW Productions
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 02:51
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Quote: "Is it honestly HARD for people to not use "crap" or "this sucks" in their posts? Honestly?"


Well, posts suck and look like crap when you don't use those two... Oh. Oops. Point taken!

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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 04:40 Edited at: 14th Jun 2010 04:42
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Quote: "Is it honestly HARD for people to not use "crap" or "this sucks" in their posts? Honestly?"


Ply, your statement was presented well, however I would suggest spicing it up a little bit the next time around. Perhaps if you add some more italicized words and more bold print to draw more attention to the reader. Keep up the good work!

Kravenwolf

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KeithC
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 05:18
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Quote: "However, I don't think we'll ever really be able to stop people from saying things like, "your work sucks." There's always going to be at least one tard who comments like that."

Sure we will...it's called a "ban".

-Keith

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Thraxas
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 05:36
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Quote: "Sure we will...it's called a "ban". "


and it looks like this

Your signature has been [mod edited] :-p
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KeithC
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 05:56
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Don't show them the nuke image....it's too scary for most.

-Keith

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PW Productions
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 06:06 Edited at: 14th Jun 2010 06:22
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That thing's already pretty frightening.

EDIT: ...you mean... THIS nuke image?!

EDIT 2: IMAGE REMOVED FOR PERSONAL SAFETY.

EDIT 3: Now that I think about it, I don't even want to know what happens when an account is nuked

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KeithC
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 06:14
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Oh no; he's just showed it to the masses....now what do I do when it asks me if I'm sure that I want to nuke PWP's account........

-Keith

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PW Productions
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 06:18 Edited at: 14th Jun 2010 06:20
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Oh crap.

Edited above post... Never test a Mod...

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 06:56
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Quote: "Sure we will...it's called a "ban""

I'm not saying idiotic posts can't be reduced. I'm just saying that there always will be them. You ban one, the next one comes in lol.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=170994&b=21
Take this thread for an example: It's clearly obvious that this was one of those stupid posts. There has already been a huge crackdown on "constructive posting," over the past year, yet a thread like that pops up.

Yeah, it's great that ya'll are trying to help boost morale and what not, but we're HUMAN! I'm not a damned robot. I can't stand to stay in a place where I'm forced to talk the way others want me to because it's possible I'll hurt their feelings.
Boo-freaking-who.
Obviously people shouldn't just go around saying unnecessary insults, but I'm not going to be constructive about literally every post I make. I'm going to post how I would say it to the person. There are times where someone needs to be a dick to someone. Being constructive isn't always (though should always be the first option) the best route.

Signature's are stupid.
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Thraxas
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 07:00
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Quote: "I don't even want to know what happens when an account is nuked"


Your whole TGC forum profile is deleted... along with every thread and post you ever made. It's like you never existed

Your signature has been [mod edited] :-p
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Plystire
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 07:19
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Quote: "There are times where someone needs to be a dick to someone."


You can be a dick by not bothering to grace them with your reply.


The one and only,


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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 07:21
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Quote: "You can be a dick by not bothering to grace them with your reply"

I would agree with that only if I was the only person that could respond.

Signature's are stupid.
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PW Productions
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 07:26 Edited at: 14th Jun 2010 07:26
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Quote: "Your whole TGC forum profile is deleted... along with every thread and post you ever made. It's like you never existed"


Eh... that's not gonna happen to me now that I removed the picture.... right?

-PwP-

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Flatlander
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 07:35
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Nice knowing you PwP. I hope I can remember you several months from now.

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BlackFox
FPSC Master
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 07:52
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Quote: "Your whole TGC forum profile is deleted... along with every thread and post you ever made. It's like you never existed"


Quote: "Nice knowing you PwP. I hope I can remember you several months from now."


Who???

- BlackFox

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PW Productions
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 09:01
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Oh no. The effects are already taking place

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 12:56
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I'm sure people are still going to bend the AUP rules by spamming smilies at the end of their post to try and mask the hate coming from it.

What about people using offensive language, like a few in this thread have? Even if it isn't directed at anyone in particular, some members may get offended and the cycle begins again.

Most of the FPSC members are just kids, which some of the older members don't quite realise when they post such words on these forums. So maybe a strict wording policy should be put in place.

Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit, AMD Phenom II X4 940 3.0Ghz, 2.0GB Single-Channel DDR2 @ 400MHz, ATI Radeon Sapphire HD 5770 Vapor-X
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KeithC
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 16:27
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Quote: "You ban one, the next one comes in lol."


Which is why our job never ends...

Quote: "Obviously people shouldn't just go around saying unnecessary insults, but I'm not going to be constructive about literally every post I make. I'm going to post how I would say it to the person. There are times where someone needs to be a dick to someone. Being constructive isn't always (though should always be the first option) the best route."


Then you can expect to get moderated.

Quote: "Most of the FPSC members are just kids, which some of the older members don't quite realize when they post such words on these forums. So maybe a strict wording policy should be put in place."


That's a large part of the reason for the crackdown. These forums need to remain a welcoming place to all, no matter your age. I never ran my own forums in quite the same (strict) manner; but I understand the need to do so here, which is why these policies are in place. Some people need things spelled out for them.

-Keith

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 19:43
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Quote: "Then you can expect to get moderated"

Which is why I never post anything aside from geek culture nowadays.

Quote: "What about people using offensive language, like a few in this thread have"

Can't say I've seen any offensive language in this thread

Signature's are stupid.
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Nbt
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 23:36
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BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!


Your signature has been erased by a mod. The sig needs to be 600 width maximum (x 120 height) for all of it.
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General Jackson
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Posted: 15th Jun 2010 00:19 Edited at: 15th Jun 2010 00:20
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Quote: "Does this mean you can't agree with someone in their thread? Absolutely not. It's how you verbalize your disagreement that can cause you problems."

Should be
Quote: "Does this mean you can't disagree with someone in their thread? Absolutely not. It's how you verbalize your disagreement that can cause you problems."





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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 16th Jun 2010 07:09
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Quote: " if there is nothing of value (such as the threads asking for customer support)"


Let me just comment on this. My first impression when I see these words are that TGC is too lazy to help their customers. I'm not saying they are, but that is generally what that phrase seems to say. YOu might want to rephrase it to 'Threads asking for customer support are not allowed because... To get customer support go here...'. Say it like that instead of 'Customer support is not allowed', because it seems that TGC don't want to have to deal with customer support. Does this make sense?
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KeithC
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Posted: 16th Jun 2010 07:35
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Quote: "My first impression when I see these words are that TGC is too lazy to help their customers."

We are not TGC employees (nor are we paid to give customer support); no customer support is available on these Boards. No Moderator has access to your accounts, and therefore can not help you with customer support issues.

It has been said time and again in such threads that customer support is not available on these boards...it even says as much just below the "Post Forum Message" box.

-Keith

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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 16th Jun 2010 17:47
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Totally with this. It's not great coming to check your thread and see someone saying: "Lighting sucks." Makes you thinking like... what in it sucks? How can I improve it? I don't know how to make it good if you don't tell me what's wrong. I mean that is like... totally pointless and doesen't make you feel good. What makes you feel good is critisism. Saying your work looks good is nice, but I like constructive posts better, 'cause I'm (and many, if not all of you) not perfect. And there is alwasy something to improve in.

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PW Productions
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Posted: 16th Jun 2010 17:59
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I've had an experience with one of these people who said this in my original Primordial thread (can be found here: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=147469&b=25):

Quote: "Looks very bad and X10 this game is GAY"


And surprisingly no mods saw or interacted, (my fault, should've told them) but it's still the fact that the user (don't want to say his name) 'needed' to say that. And he's still around the forums today... However, it was obvious other users wanted to react to the comment (and boy, they sure did).

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KeithC
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Posted: 16th Jun 2010 18:34
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I don't think any of us was ever notified about that; otherwise action would have been taken. He's lucky that it's been so long; no moderation has been given out, but I've put a note in his profile about it along with a warning (as well as deleting the post).

-Keith

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PW Productions
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Posted: 16th Jun 2010 18:56
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I know, I said in my above post it was my fault, I never told a Mod. I trust you'd take action anyways. It was just the fact that he said that and that the community defended against it quite firmly.

Thank you for putting a note in his profile though, I appreciate it

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General Jackson
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Posted: 16th Jun 2010 20:02
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Keith did you see my post there was an error in your top post I pointed out

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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 17th Jun 2010 04:23
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Quote: "We are not TGC employees (nor are we paid to give customer support); no customer support is available on these Boards. No Moderator has access to your accounts, and therefore can not help you with customer support issues.

It has been said time and again in such threads that customer support is not available on these boards...it even says as much just below the "Post Forum Message" box."


I am 100% aware of this, however most newcomers aren't. I didn't fully understand why it was that customer support is not on the forums until about my second month here. If you don't thoroughly explain this, it will cause problems.

I know a lot of people join these forums just so they can ask for customer support, and this is because (or rather I think it is) you can't see the 'Order & Billing Support is provided here, not in these forums.' until you are registered.
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KeithC
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 17th Jun 2010 09:35
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I don't think any company offers customer support directly on their forums. I could put it in the FAQ; but I'd be willing to bet people that start the "customer support needed" threads don't read the stickies. But what the heck, I'll add it there (FAQ).

Yes; I saw your post; I'll fix it on my next sticky update...thanks.

-Keith

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 17th Jun 2010 16:45
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Maybe there should be a overlay window that pops up when you click submit that shows the AUP or certain rules that should not be broken and after a time delay the user can then confirm the submission of their post.

Obviously this would only apply to new members and moderated members. It would at least force them to read what would be displayed and if they plain ignored it, then they can be heavily moderated, maybe even banned for ignoring the rules and posting text that breaks them.

Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit, AMD Phenom II X4 940 3.0Ghz, 2.0GB Single-Channel DDR2 @ 400MHz, ATI Radeon Sapphire HD 5770 Vapor-X
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KeithC
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 17th Jun 2010 18:27
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I would love for something like that to occur; but it would mean more work for the TGC devs. I did ask if the master sticky could be given a second class of sticky....making it remain on top at all times...and even change it's color as well. It might be done in the future; but we don't want to break the Forum testing it out right now. Which is why I simply gave it the red exclamation points for now. Good ideas though.

-Keith

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