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FPSC Classic Models and Media / .x problem after exported?

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Decneo
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Posted: 14th Jun 2010 06:19
i got the problem with .x file , it works fine in Max but after export it, the Legs on the right looks strange



thanks,



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KasseyusAncient
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Posted: 15th Jun 2010 03:00
What exporter are you using and which version? It may help diagnose the problem.

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Decneo
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Posted: 15th Jun 2010 08:39
i used 3ds max 2009 with pandasofts Direct X Exorter - 5.2009.67.0

thank you.



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Decneo
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Posted: 17th Jun 2010 17:03
nobody have any experience on it?



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Nilloc
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Posted: 20th Jun 2010 00:18
Thats very strange but i do not know anything about it i wish i could of helped!

Who da man?!
Decneo
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 04:29
Quote: "Thats very strange but i do not know anything about it i wish i could of helped! "


Hope our big boss will solve this problem for us.who got this problem too.



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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 14:55
Hi Guys,

Sometimes when you export your model and play it in DBP and nothing seems to animate, one common reason is that you exported with the 'keyframes per second' option which multiplies the output keyframes by a particular value (usually 24 or 30). This means when you play your model animation, it appears to stand still but in fact is playing EXTREMELY slowly. To solve this, you can either increase the speed of the object animation in DBP, like so:

load object "exportedmodel.x",1
loop object 1
set normalization on
set object speed 1,10000
sync on
sync rate 60
do
set cursor 0,0
print object frame(1);"/";total object frames(1)
sync
loop

Or you can return to your export settings and ensure that your keyframes are saved out 1:1 so there is no buffering in respect of keyframes per second which DBP does not need. As a side note, FPSC requires that keyframes are saved out 1:1 and a good way to check if your export is padded with large keyframe values is to open your text exported X file in NOTEPAD and scroll right to the bottom. You will see the animation data and the keyframes look like this:
72000;16;1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,-28.893299,-0.070957,-61.798553,1.000000;;,
72192;16;1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,-28.893299,-0.070957,-61.798553,1.000000;;;

As you can see, the first value of each sequence of numbers denotes the keyframe index and you can see in this case the buffering is extreme with one keyframe at 72000 and the next at 72192. There will be a setting somewhere in your exporter with a value of 192 which you can change to 1 (or some parallel value representing the same setting).

Also be aware when you export a model is the 60 bone limit, and ensure that all meshes within the model use less than 60 bones to animate the geometry.

Also remember that no more than 4 bones can influence a vertex if you are using a shader, such as a model in FPSC.

Another quick way to test whether your X file is a good export is to run it through the DirectX Viewer. If your model looks wrong there, there is little DBP will be able to do to fix it as the original data is gigo. In this case, return to the exporter and alter settings, or switch exporters.

I drink tea, and in my spare time I write software.
Decneo
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 15:15
Thank you Boss for you quick replied,but it more confusing because i never use DBP before



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Red Devil
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 16:28
Hello!

Use the Panda 3ds Plug-In .
It´s FREE

LINK: http://www.andytather.co.uk/Panda/directxmax_downloads.aspx

[img] [/img]
Decneo
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 16:46
Quote: "Hello!

Use the Panda 3ds Plug-In .
It´s FREE "


thank you,but i'd used the panda and i got this problem.



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Flatlander
FPSC Tool Maker
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Location: The Flatlands
Posted: 21st Jun 2010 19:50
Lee, you rarely respond in the forums. I am very impressed.

Decno, Yes, Lee started out talking about DBPro but that was just to explain what is going on in FPSC. Concentrate on the quote below that then talks about FPSC, it's limitations and if you are possibly exceeding those limitation. He also explains how to view the animation in a DirectX viewer to see if it should be working at all. It does appear he has a fix.

Quote: "FPSC requires that keyframes are saved out 1:1 and a good way to check if your export is padded with large keyframe values is to open your text exported X file in NOTEPAD and scroll right to the bottom. You will see the animation data and the keyframes look like this:
72000;16;1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,-28.893299,-0.070957,-61.798553,1.000000;;,
72192;16;1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,-28.893299,-0.070957,-61.798553,1.000000;;;

As you can see, the first value of each sequence of numbers denotes the keyframe index and you can see in this case the buffering is extreme with one keyframe at 72000 and the next at 72192. There will be a setting somewhere in your exporter with a value of 192 which you can change to 1 (or some parallel value representing the same setting).

Also be aware when you export a model is the 60 bone limit, and ensure that all meshes within the model use less than 60 bones to animate the geometry.

Also remember that no more than 4 bones can influence a vertex if you are using a shader, such as a model in FPSC.

Another quick way to test whether your X file is a good export is to run it through the DirectX Viewer. If your model looks wrong there, there is little DBP will be able to do to fix it as the original data is gigo. In this case, return to the exporter and alter settings, or switch exporters."


Decneo
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 20:10
Quote: "F l a t l a n d e r"


we have to talk about this



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Flatlander
FPSC Tool Maker
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 20:10
OK send me an email.

Decneo
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 20:32
Quote: "OK send me an email."


ok,sending



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michael x
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 20:47
ha i could maybe this one to

more than what meets the eye
Decneo
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 20:56
Quote: "ha i could maybe this one to"


do you know what 's wrong with this one



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uman
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 03:43 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2010 03:43
As far as I am aware and I am no expert, the Panda Exporter has an export option of : Timeline/Keyframes/Animation Sampling Rate of : 25 which I presume Lee suggests you change to 1. I may be wrong about that but you could try it.

In any case I would alternatively suggest importing to and re-rigging if necessary the model in Fragmotion and try exporting from Fragmotion - Might be easier to ensure the bones are correctly assigned to mesh as the current results of export seem to mess that up at least visually for whatever reason.

I would not know if this model yet has animation applied to it but that could be done in Fragmotion at the same time.

It can be tricky stuff I know but persistance should pay off - theres sometimes more than one way to success sometimes by modelling in one prog, skinning in another and animating in yet another and so on if necessary. Once you have a method that works for you, you're sorted.

Can be frustrating I know. Tricky stuff and hard for non experts/professionals as many of us might be




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Decneo
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 04:12
Quote: "As far as I am aware and I am no expert, the Panda Exporter has an export option of : Timeline/Keyframes/Animation Sampling Rate of : 25 which I presume Lee suggests you change to 1. I may be wrong about that but you could try it.

In any case I would alternatively suggest importing to and re-rigging if necessary the model in Fragmotion and try exporting from Fragmotion - Might be easier to ensure the bones are correctly assigned to mesh as the current results of export seem to mess that up at least visually for whatever reason.

I would not know if this model yet has animation applied to it but that could be done in Fragmotion at the same time.

It can be tricky stuff I know but persistance should pay off - theres sometimes more than one way to success sometimes by modelling in one prog, skinning in another and animating in yet another and so on if necessary. Once you have a method that works for you, you're sorted.

Can be frustrating I know. Tricky stuff and hard for non experts/professionals as many of us might be"


Thank you for your advise i'll try.

here is its animation



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michael x
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 06:26
email me the stuff so I can check it out

more than what meets the eye
Decneo
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 07:31
Quote: "email me the stuff so I can check it out"


send..



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rolfy
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 10:57 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2010 11:04
Took a look at this a few back, apart from the bad bone alignment on the affected legs which have forced you to increase the envelope radius to compensate I found no exclusion of mesh verts from nearby envelopes.
I did at first think you had exceeded the bone limit for FPSC but you have 51 which should be ok according to Lee.
The main problem I believe is the use of IK chains which are not part of the X-file format.
Also try not to mirror bones, you have a few of those.
Build your rig from scratch.
Decneo
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 14:20
Quote: "Took a look at this a few back, apart from the bad bone alignment on the affected legs which have forced you to increase the envelope radius to compensate I found no exclusion of mesh verts from nearby envelopes.
I did at first think you had exceeded the bone limit for FPSC but you have 51 which should be ok according to Lee.
The main problem I believe is the use of IK chains which are not part of the X-file format.
Also try not to mirror bones, you have a few of those.
Build your rig from scratch. "


Thank you Rolfy i'll try it and let you know.
but the animation work in .x file just the bone problem on the left legs. i'll try your advise then lets you know.



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KasseyusAncient
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 11:40 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2010 11:43
One thing you could try... and save a backup before you do this is to 'snip off' the bones that do not export correctly in the MAX file and create brand new ones (no mirrors).

When positioned correctly, rig but do not animate, export to check that the legs are in the right place.

Then go back and do basic motion (nothing fancy, just 3-4 keyframes over the length of the animation and export.

If that works, go back and do abit more until its all done.

Doing it that will will help you identify WHERE in the process the error occoured. If it does not occour, then its all good

EDIT : No spiders, living or artificial were harmed during the writing of this post!

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Decneo
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 15:05
Quote: "One thing you could try... and save a backup before you do this is to 'snip off' the bones that do not export correctly in the MAX file and create brand new ones (no mirrors).

When positioned correctly, rig but do not animate, export to check that the legs are in the right place.

Then go back and do basic motion (nothing fancy, just 3-4 keyframes over the length of the animation and export.

If that works, go back and do abit more until its all done.

Doing it that will will help you identify WHERE in the process the error occoured. If it does not occour, then its all good

EDIT : No spiders, living or artificial were harmed during the writing of this post!
"


i do every thing but not work , also look weird. reduce the bone and is still having as same problem




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bond1
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 15:31 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2010 15:37
There are SO many possible reasons why it's not exporting correctly.

Post a screenshot with and without the skin modifier, side by side for starters. Like Rolfy said, don't mirror bones. Make sure it's an editable mesh, not editable poly before rigging.

When you're done skinning, for good measure,select all verts and bake down all the vertex weights (little oven icon in the skin modifier). Also, set "Bone Affect Limit" to "4". And lastly, click the "Remove Zero Weights" button with a low threshold like 0.01 to clean up any verts that might have small weighting values that are unecessary.

----------------------------------------
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Decneo
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 16:46
thank you Bone 1 , i will explain my step .

1. modeling a spider
2.set up bone like the picture (i've changed didn't to mirror bones)
3.using kin and test export it without animation (and got that problem) with and without the IK chain still have the same problem.



so i did like bond1 said " select all verts and bake down all the vertex weights (little oven icon in the skin modifier) "



now i've done bake down all the vertex weights but how to do this " set "Bone Affect Limit" to "4". And lastly, click the "Remove Zero Weights" with a low threshold like 0.01 "

Thanks in advance,
Decneo



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