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3 Dimensional Chat / How do you model that?

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Asteric
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Location: Geordie Land
Posted: 15th Jun 2010 01:03
Well, after looking over some other successful threads where the community interact and help each other out, i thought a generalised thread for people to ask for general 3d questions, and to get tips on making models or textures, or even programs specific issues, would be a good idea. This way any new member can ask some questions regarding basics, as well as more experienced members giving each other help with more complex techniques.

Why not just make individual threads?

I asked this myself, but i have seen this work on many forums on the internet, and i believe that this would be worked better as a workshop, where we can pass information along, tutorials would be a nice idea too.

Im not going to dictate, as i think it would be nice for each person to be able to get involved and help each other out.

Also, i think a good idea after(as long as this is an idea that is took well) would be collect all of the most frequently asked questions and compiling them into an FAQ.

Of course we cannot have any questions regarding how to start, or what program is best, there are stickies for that, just strictly modelling techniques only.

Anyway, this was just an idea that was in my head for a while, so i hope that other members will find a use for this, especially newer members. (I will make the post more pretty if there is interest in the thread)

Cheers.

Camouflage Studios
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Posted: 15th Jun 2010 05:54
Nice thread Asteric, this is an awesome idea. I think a sticky is in order

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Asteric
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Posted: 15th Jun 2010 19:13
Thanks, i hope it becomes useful to some people, please, ask away!

SpyDaniel
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Posted: 15th Jun 2010 21:32
How do you personally visualise modelling organic objects? I've done some in the past, but never really got it to click fully, always had problems overcoming certain areas, such as heads and hands.

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Camouflage Studios
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Posted: 15th Jun 2010 22:31
Well, organic modeling is pretty difficult. But you can go about it in a few ways.

Creating a base mesh then sculpting - Using Mudbox, Zbrush, Modo, Blender

Box Modeling - Using a box and extruding and adding geo and moving verts to get the shape right.

Edge Extrusion - Starting with a single plane and extruding until you get the shape right.

Cylinder Modeling - Using a cylinder and adding geometry and moving points until you get the correct shape.

Generally, you want to use box modeling or edge for the head, then sculpting in detail. And for the body, you can use any one of those techniques. There are some good tutorials on poopinmymouth.com (Ben Mathis's site) Thats for lowpoly stuff. And Blendercookie.com has some good stuff regarding head modeling.

Generally what I do, is start off with a box for the head and add geo and then move around my vertices until I get a good shape and form. Then I start to sculpt it until it looks nice. I generally use the clay brush and draw brush in Blender.

For the body I would usually create a simple base mesh starting off with a 12 sided cylinder for the body and adding loops to put in more definition in certian places, since it's going to be a base mesh you don't want too much detail though. Then I use 8 sided cylinders for the arms and the legs, and again, add loops and then edit the verts to get a little definition and shape. And then, go into it with sculpting tools.

Here are some other tutorials you may find useful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oBooDfaUL8 - Good box modeling
http://www.arildwiro.com/tutorials/tutorials.html - Tons of good tutorials on subdivision modeling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXmLScxzJ9E - Really good box modeling head timelapse
http://www.youtube.com/user/ward7299 - Awesome blender tutorials. Mostly character tuts about 20 minutes each
http://poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/tutorial.htm - Best lowpoly tutorials I've ever seen

Hope this helps

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lazerus
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Posted: 15th Jun 2010 22:32 Edited at: 15th Jun 2010 22:42
I always see it as a flow of wieght. Everything needs to support the next area, building across the contours of the muscles below you can expand on the masses. Look at your own arm for instance, your muscles contract and expand moving masses about. Once you understand there movement you can accomadate them into a workable mesh. Alucard94 has some of the cleanest edgeflow ive seen, excluding Jhon of course, everone knows hes Kami of these lands. Try looking up some of his threads he has a goodeye for mesh displacement.

Just think to yourself everything has to flow, smooth loops that encompass the masses is often the best way to go about it.

Ive never been good at expalining how i do something so ignore my post if it makes no sense.

Edit;

In regards to post above, 12 sided cylinder for a start point? its a bit much dont you think? 8 is what i kick about in for bases, youd rather have less and add more, then have more and need to clean up. For head modeling i tend to stick with a cylinder, NEVER use a sphere, they are extreamly hard to manage and you end with a too much poly wastage and butchered poly flow. With cylinders, you can correct the poles into 4 sided polies at ethier end, allowing you to keep entact your poly flow, spheres end at points leaving you with alot of reworking. Boxes have the most freedom, but require the most work. It all depends of your standing as a modeller and your personal preference to working.

I normally work entierly in 8 or 6 sided cylinders when it comes to organics. The poly loop flows are already laid out ready for you to manipulate and reform into muscle masses.

Asteric
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Posted: 15th Jun 2010 22:49
Yeah, this is what i was after

I think my method would be a 6 sided base mesh, and then load it into zbrush, where i can sub-div, sculpt, and then do a more even re-topology.

Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 15th Jun 2010 22:58 Edited at: 15th Jun 2010 23:00
I usually start everything with a box. For bodies, I'll delete the top and bottom (I guess that's a four sided cylinder? ). I'm always cutting in new loops though.

Edit: I believe that "shell" modelling, starting with a plane, is best suited for inorganic modelling. Although, it does help with setting up your topology in certain areas, requiring you to figure out how to connect all the little bits.

Asteric
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Posted: 15th Jun 2010 23:10
I use plane modelling mostly with guns, just gives me more control.

zeroSlave
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Posted: 15th Jun 2010 23:23 Edited at: 15th Jun 2010 23:28
I generally start everything with a plane, then start extruding (shift+click) edges to make loops from there. Then I make more loops. When I have quite a few created, I then start bridging the edges together.

EDIT: here is the flow of how I did the recent head I made (The red polys representing the poly flow. I know it's not perfect, but now that I am keeping poly flow in mind, I think it is looking more organic than my previous work.



My green thumb grew the tree my Trojan War horse was crafted from. With roses in our pockets we rally round the tombstones. Ashes to ashes, we all fall down.

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Asteric
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Posted: 15th Jun 2010 23:33
That is some very nice edge flow there, how do you go about blocking in the shapes?

zeroSlave
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Posted: 16th Jun 2010 00:04 Edited at: 16th Jun 2010 00:27
Quote: "how do you go about blocking in the shapes?"

Not sure what you mean, but:

I use a reference pic for the front and the side. Align them in the respected viewports and start from there.

On this head following the red highlights:

1. I started from the middle of the nose, went down and around the mouth to the tip of the chin using the reference photos as a guide.

2. Then from the tip of the nose, around the nostrils, and under the nose. (keeping in mind the number of edges in the first loop.)

3. Then a loop from the nostril around the mouth. Then one around the lips. (always keeping in mind the amount of edges. Don't have to, but I was trying to keep triangles out of this.)

4. Then, I started bridging the gaps between the loops.

From there, I went from the cheek up and around the eyes to the top of the nose(forehead). Then looped the eyes (one for the basic shape, then one for the eye lids) Bridge, edge extrude, repeat.

Hopefully that is what you were asking? Otherwise, the pic above is 3 objects. 1 for the highlighted polys(turned the diffuse map down to 50%) 1 for the non-highlighted, and 1 for the wireframe(i just selected all the faces, extruded locally .01, and assigned a wireframe texture map.)


EDIT: Oh yeah, here is a pic with a sloppy texture thrown on like above, but without the wire and highlights.



My green thumb grew the tree my Trojan War horse was crafted from. With roses in our pockets we rally round the tombstones. Ashes to ashes, we all fall down.

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Quik
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Posted: 16th Jun 2010 00:51
iam not sure if u guys are paast this or not, but i just gotta add something:
Quote: "

Creating a base mesh then sculpting - Using Mudbox, Zbrush, Modo, Blender"

now, this is totally ok, but if u are short on money u can either sculpt in Blender, which would be totally fine, but then we got Sculptris, a free sculpting software almost as powerfull as Zbrush. the only flaw i see is the use of Tri's istead of Quads, but that doesnt bother u unless ur doing lowpoly sculpts.

just wanted to put this in and continue reading^^


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
SJHooks
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Posted: 16th Jun 2010 07:54
Ehh, I'm having problems modeling plants such as trees. The base, as in the entire wood thing I can do (branches I think I can do, just takes practice, but leaves? I understand its an alpha mapped plane for several of the leaves, but sometimes I've noticed that these single quad faces rotate to view the camera in game, and am wondering what the method is for professional vegetation... Um, or on second thought someone could tell me what I should do to organize the leaves on a tree, like, the types that are just randomly put everywhere, just like what things like tree magic do? Should I make the textures, and duplicate the one textured quad that has leaves on it over and over everywhere until I'm satisfied..? Thanks, -SJHooks

lazerus
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Posted: 16th Jun 2010 13:06
Double sided poiles work best for me, Normally i have a 3 plane cluster and different angles, for leaf bunches, as for mid poly trees, i tend to use a set up like this, then mix in a few bunches.



Ive seperated the planes so you can see the overlay. I normally the four verts together, creating a double sided poly that works pertty well. For the leaf clusters theres no reall need to double, since the back planes cover most of it.

For canopy mapping, then its pretty easy to set up for, firstly you can delete all your middle area branches and paint them on the top plain instead, This is saves a hell of alot of polies, espeically if you want to keep the forest looking nice. From the polies you save on the tree tops, you can really do up everything at eye level giving you a real sense of a forest. This hoverever only works in desnsely pack forests, for the outrim, youll nedd to fully model the trees like said above, probably do them high poly to match what youll see at eye level.

I was recently playing with planes in my last compo entry and there very versatile if you can texture properly.



JimB
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Posted: 16th Jun 2010 14:52 Edited at: 19th Jun 2010 22:03
not appropriate.
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Asteric
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Posted: 16th Jun 2010 17:59
Yeah, thats a good method lazerus, but maybe adding some more planes for individual clusters for higher LOD's for a more 3d effect can work.

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