Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

FPSC Classic Product Chat / how many people would if option came up to have a larger play area

Author
Message
science boy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Oct 2008
Location:
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 11:16 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2010 11:18
hello, it has seemed to me for a while that i am in the minority on wanting a larger map, i mean more landscape, bigger cities, larger dungeons, more space hull, but it never seems to be many peoples priority, 1.17 will do the bug fixes and nice extras, but there have been mentions of larger areas but never surfaced.

this is a thread to see how many people would above anything else in v1.18 besides bugs would prioritize larger area size.

(this is not a demand thread just a survey)

so far there is ME.

thank you

an unquenchable thirst for knowledge of game creation!!!
Marc Steene
FPSC Master
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Mar 2006
Location: Bahrain
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 11:23
And me.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
vortech
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Mar 2010
Location: Finland
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 14:10
And me. Im so fed up with that 40x40 area. Sometimes I have lovely idea, and when i start to make it area is too small...

Look. Flying saucer.
Bugsy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2008
Location: another place in time
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 16:21
I, for one, have never had a single problem with the 40x40 map size. I can build a favela that's seemingly as large as the one in call of duty modern warfare 2 using it, that map has been made and has over 8 minutes of gameplay. the thing FPSC needs is the ability to support enough enemies to populate that area, and enough polygons to detail it. I vote we wait until FPSC has improved, even perfected it's ability to handle anything a 40x40 map can throw at it, then we worry about making the map bigger.

imageflock.com/img/1272671763.jpg[/img]
skype = isaacpreston. I want to talk to YOU
AbdulAhad
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Feb 2010
Location: Karachi, Pakistan
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 17:29 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2010 17:29
I agree with bugsy on that. FPSC needs better speeds on detailed levels which have alot of gameplay.

Abdul Ahad
Nbt
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Oct 2009
Location: Behind you!!
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 19:19
I would prefer a proper hub system (being able to go back and forth between game levels/areas) than a larger map area.

That would give a proper feel of a large scale world without the overhead of more geometry for the system/engine to handle.

Your signature has been erased by a mod. The sig needs to be 600 width maximum (x 120 height) for all of it.
Kravenwolf
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2009
Location: Silent Hill
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 19:50 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2010 19:51
Quote: "just a survey"


I would have to say neh. Most users running stardard PC specs have trouble with an FPS Creator game running proficiently as the map size stands now. Before TGC make the grid scale even larger, they need to optimize the engine to work better with what's available to us now.

Kravenwolf

xplosys
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jan 2006
Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 20:05
Quote: "I agree with bugsy on that."


Ditto.

Pirate Myke
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st May 2010
Location: El Dorado, Ca
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 20:30
My vote, would be for handling of more detailed maps per level, not increasing the map size. Although new to this program and to the forum, I find that I create way more per level then program can handle right now. I would say that I fill only aboout 5% of the space given before performance starts to drop. I tend to want a lot of detail for the atmosphere. If I want to populate with charaters I have to give up details in the map.
Marc Steene
FPSC Master
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Mar 2006
Location: Bahrain
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 20:53
The map size is an unecessary restriction, you say things like "more enemies", "more polygons" but increasing the map size will not require any extra coding unlike the other features. Whilst it may be true that some users cannot run a full map size at a good performance, it doesn't mean people like me don't want to play with the extra space and exploit it.

Honestly, it's the little things like this which really devalue FPS Creator. Just give us the extra space and everyone will be happy. Those who want it can use it, and those who don't are not forced to use it. Simple as that.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
Bugsy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2008
Location: another place in time
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 21:28
well, actually a larger map size makes outer boundaries bigger, making games even run slowly on good computers.

imageflock.com/img/1272671763.jpg[/img]
skype = isaacpreston. I want to talk to YOU
Monkey Mja
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Apr 2010
Location:
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 21:36
Going back and forth between levels is my biggest concern.

But has anyone ever thought of making FPSC make a MMORPG?

- Monkey
Marc Steene
FPSC Master
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Mar 2006
Location: Bahrain
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 21:48
Quote: "actually a larger map size makes outer boundaries bigger, making games even run slowly on good computers."


Oh come on, you're suggesting that removing boundaries to empty space will make THAT much of a difference to performance? Honestly, the difference will be negligible.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
BlackFox
FPSC Master
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th May 2008
Location: Knight to Queens Bishop 3
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 22:00 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2010 22:02
Quote: "Going back and forth between levels is my biggest concern.

But has anyone ever thought of making FPSC make a MMORPG?"


Some of us can already go back and forth between levels via RPG Mod. I doubt the MMORPG is realistic as there are many areas for multiplayer that have to be addressed.

Quote: "I, for one, have never had a single problem with the 40x40 map size. I can build a favela that's seemingly as large as the one in call of duty modern warfare 2 using it, that map has been made and has over 8 minutes of gameplay. the thing FPSC needs is the ability to support enough enemies to populate that area, and enough polygons to detail it. I vote we wait until FPSC has improved, even perfected it's ability to handle anything a 40x40 map can throw at it, then we worry about making the map bigger."


Agreed. Once the issues with a large number of enemies are addressed in the current area, then you can look at making the map bigger. As it stands, there is no way it will work out like some think it will.

Can't put the cart in front of the horse.

- BlackFox

Hockeykid
DBPro Tool Maker
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Sep 2007
Location:
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 22:10
Quote: "The map size is an unecessary restriction"


That statement is false. Many times in the source the map grids are looped through using a for loop

Ex:


This is a slightly lengthy process because (as you can see) every time x is increased y is then increased 40 times so its looping through a good 1600 times and then of course operations are carried out from within the for loop. I know that this is used during loading so for one thing loading times would increase. Assuming it is carried out during the main loop (which is likely) the game play will slow down. Also the map editor uses arrays that are sized based on the map grid size. An increase in size will cause the map editor to consume more memory causing the map editor to become slower (and memory usage to increase).

So for this survey I vote no.

Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2005
Location: Nirvana
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 22:35 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2010 22:40
Quote: "the thing FPSC needs is the ability to support enough enemies to populate that area, and enough polygons to detail it. I vote we wait until FPSC has improved, even perfected it's ability to handle anything a 40x40 map can throw at it, then we worry about making the map bigger."

Hear here!

Quote: "I would have to say neh. Most users running stardard PC specs have trouble with an FPS Creator game running proficiently as the map size stands now. Before TGC make the grid scale even larger, they need to optimize the engine to work better with what's available to us now."

Yeah yeah, what he said.

Quote: "That statement is false. Many times in the source the map grids are looped through using a for loop

Ex:
+ Code Snippet
for x=0 to 39
for y=0 to 39

next y
next x


This is a slightly lengthy process because (as you can see) every time x is increased y is then increased 40 times so its looping through a good 1600 times and then of course operations are carried out from within the for loop."

Ah yes. the nested loop.
Nesting for-loops can be fun!
Try using the loop values as variables in a formula within the loop and you can easily create a formula that is too complex for the processor. (=crash)

I just want v117 with the planned features, then take everything else as it comes, which is pretty much what I have to do anyway.


Quote: " An increase in size will cause the map editor to consume more memory causing the map editor to become slower (and memory usage to increase).

So for this survey I vote no."

I vote no to larger maps too.

Scale your entities to 25% and your map will be 4x as big in both directions. (making it 16x bigger)
Like they said though, even with the bigger map you still have to populate it and render that which makes things worse.
My biggest mistake has been making my battle areas too large.

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness
CapnBuzz
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Jan 2010
Location:
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 22:40
I confess that I haven't read every post in this thread, so very sorry if I'm duplicating someone else's thoughts...

Before a larger map can be be successfully implemented, I would see the FPS issues (lag) in the FPSC engine as higher priority. Without the ability to fully populate a 40x40 level and have smooth gameplay, a larger map would only make matters worse...

I'm wondering whether maps might be shapes other than square -- let's say hexagonal or octagonal? And if the sides of those octagons could be "linked" to other octagonal maps? That would create a larger "world," but only if FPSC could load levels more quickly and support a large number of maps in a game build.
Marc Steene
FPSC Master
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Mar 2006
Location: Bahrain
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 22:48
Quote: "That statement is false."


Well, that sure showed me It would still be a nice option though.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
BlackFox
FPSC Master
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th May 2008
Location: Knight to Queens Bishop 3
Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 22:51
Quote: "Scale your entities to 25% and your map will be 4x as big in both directions. (making it 16x bigger)"


Right. IIRC, you did the cars project where they were scaled down a few months back, correct?

- BlackFox

General Jackson
User Banned
Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 02:23
Quote: "I know that this is used during loading so for one thing loading times would increase."

Yes, I modded FPSC to be 200x200 once and it didnt take just forever to load, it took forever

science boy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Oct 2008
Location:
Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 16:00
ok maybe this is the case as in running speeds and loading speeds, (200 x 200) that is pretty big though just 80 x 80 would suite me. if you could do me a little mod that will do that as in 80 x 80 i will pay ya general.

as to shrink size does it work? as the polys will still be the same and need more stuff to be added. hence the same problem surely

in db pro they have large scapes with no real problems, and fpsc is made with dbpro, so therefore its not a total impossibility. i know that it was not designed for large scapes, but to just double it in principle would be only a strain for weaker machines, so i still say yes but maybe an optional choice as in the editor ( like game maker)

so all these suggestions have all been done in other products, and is still in my eyes up for debate ( sorry mark for missing your defence, i got your back now dude)

an unquenchable thirst for knowledge of game creation!!!
budokaiman
FPSC Tool Maker
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Jun 2009
Playing: Hard to get
Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 17:09
Quote: "little mod that will do that as in 80 x 80"

Well, you might be glad to know that I have the map problem just about finished for the next release of Mystic-Mod.

Logo by The Next
Bugsy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2008
Location: another place in time
Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 17:26
Quote: "the difference will be negligible."


for my awesome rig, I probably won't even notice it, but I'm a concious developer who develops games that will run on computers lesser than my own. they sure will notice it. hockeykid basically summed up what I was thinking.

imageflock.com/img/1272671763.jpg[/img]
skype = isaacpreston. I want to talk to YOU
Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2005
Location: Nirvana
Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 17:59 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2010 18:01
Quote: "for my awesome rig, I probably won't even notice it, but I'm a concious developer who develops games that will run on computers lesser than my own. they sure will notice it. "

Yeah, I have been considering development steered towards Netbooks with a 10.1" (1024x600) or larger screen, with a 1.6 ghz Atom processor, 1gb Ram, and 160bg Hard Drive.
That means I need to stick to indoor maps to resolve the speed issue.
The 40x40x20 is plenty big for a single level anyway, because I don't want to spend 20 minutes going from one place to the other like traveling Runescape on foot.
If you are going to use teleports, then the large map can be small ones linked together with no problem anyway.
Anyways, a smaller map will stand a better chance of performing well on a majority of systems, whereas the larger map is only going to work well on that limited few uber setups.

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness
The Storyteller 01
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th May 2009
Location: On a silent hill in dead space
Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 18:05
The map size is really the least of my problems with FPSC

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
PW Productions
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Mar 2009
Location: sitting in a chair.
Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 18:37
I agree with Bugsy's post and Kravenwolf's post way up there^

science boy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Oct 2008
Location:
Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 20:16
ok but how about the choice?

i mean how could that hurt, its optional for those who like extreme gaming,

an unquenchable thirst for knowledge of game creation!!!
Bugsy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2008
Location: another place in time
Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 21:32
a choice so developers can make a map only they can play?

I just don't like the idea until the very base of FPSC's gameplay is dramatically improved. most games I could play on my old p4 with 512mb ram and no gfx card had upwards of 30 enemies per map, with no lag. I think FPSC should be able to have at least that if not twice it. that would give us enough to fill up the current map size. also, most old tech games could handle at LEAST 200000 polygons rendered without too much lag to my old box, maybe that and 60 bad guys and I'll consider worrying about map size.

imageflock.com/img/1272671763.jpg[/img]
skype = isaacpreston. I want to talk to YOU
Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2005
Location: Nirvana
Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 22:04 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2010 22:14
Quote: "ok but how about the choice?

i mean how could that hurt, its optional for those who like extreme gaming,"

What FPSC is lacking to have large maps is a LOD system, so that the level of detail would be less for entities far away.
Then you would only have to render part of the map fully at anytime being the radius around the player.
I'm not sure how the LODs work or how Lee has FPSC rendering stuff, but I know the games with large maps have LOD systems.

I know you have seen the textures change in a game as you get closer to the obeject, like the helicopters in Battlefield Vietnam.
That is what I am talking about, and until you render the scene differently, then you cannot make larger maps without creating slower play.
So, it would probably take a total re-write of large sections of the source (like I said I'm not sure about the code though), which is more than likely why it won't happen anytime soon.

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness
DestroyerHive
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Mar 2009
Location: Ravenholm - pwning headcrabs
Posted: 26th Jun 2010 16:43
YIP YIP YIP YIP!!! Yeah, I want larger areas. What's it too ya?

http://www.uncaged.co.uk/pg.htm
"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict" - M.L.K.J.
Stop P&G from testing on animals.
Nomad Soul
Moderator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Jan 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 27th Jun 2010 13:06 Edited at: 27th Jun 2010 13:07
I also agree we need to start seeing FPSC maps which can utilise the current 40x40 grid with a lot of detail and good performance for the moment. Lets see how close v1.17 brings us to that goal before we ask for something which could very easily undo all the recent hard work instantly.

It wouldn't be any fun to walk around an empty terrain just because we could get it to fit within the map editor.

I'm interested to see what people get out of the new terrain pack rolfy released. If we can combine those terrains with segment buildings which can be entered using lots of detail, light mapping, objects, enemies and gameplay that will be a huge step forward.

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2026-07-05 11:31:17
Your offset time is: 2026-07-05 11:31:17