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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Norton Anit-virus has destroyed every DBP exe I have ever created!

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Scraggle
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Posted: 27th Jul 2010 14:58
I have been away from DBP for a couple of years and have just recently come back (realising how good DBP is for prototyping new ideas).
However, every exe I have ever created has disappeared. Initially I had no idea why but when I tried to recompile the source, I find that Norton anti-virus auto-protect kicks in and deletes the exe before I get chance to use it!
The Norton pop-up proclaims that "SONAR detected security risk *.exe"
Shortly followed by "SONAR has removed security risk *.exe. Your computer is secure"

When I ask for full details I am informed that "Less than 10 users in the Norton community use this file" ... hardly surprising since I have just created it!

I can temporarily get past this by turning off Norton auto-protect but when it does a full system scan, it once again destroys all of my DBP exe's!

I realise this is more of a Norton issue than a DBP one but hopefully someone knows how I can get around this ... other than the obvious "un-install Norton" which I would rather not do because apart from this it is a very useful bit of software.



baxslash
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Posted: 27th Jul 2010 15:09
I don't use Norton but surely you can add the exe to a "trusted" list or something?

Jambo B
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Posted: 27th Jul 2010 15:14
The trusted list thing would work, but surely this would mean that everyone who installs your software on a computer protected by NAV would assume your software's virus-ridden?
Jimmy
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Posted: 27th Jul 2010 15:20
Any way to simply disable that "Less than 10 users" filter?

NaGaFailMo.
Jaeg
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Posted: 27th Jul 2010 16:15
Try reporting it as a false positive and see if they remove it from Norton's virus list or add an exception to it.

Go ahead. Walk into Mordor.

Ball State University - Biology Major
Scraggle
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Posted: 27th Jul 2010 18:25
The trusted list thing didn't work. In order to add an exe to a trusted list then the exe must already exist (obviously!) but Norton destroys the exe as soon as it is created.

I did, however, find that it is possible just to disable SONAR and then everything works as normal. Having read what SONAR actually does, then I think it is something that I can comfortably live without.



Doz
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Posted: 27th Jul 2010 18:35
Here's a guide to exclude folders, I'd just have it ignore the whole DBPro folder. http://service1.symantec.com/Support/nav.nsf/docid/199829164436
Phaelax
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Posted: 30th Jul 2010 04:20
I use symantec without trouble, but I've never seen Sonar before. Must be a new service.


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" ~ Arthur C. Clarke
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 30th Jul 2010 13:30
Quote: "I use symantec without trouble, but I've never seen Sonar before. Must be a new service."


Just what I was about to say.

I'm using Norton Internet Security 2009 Version 16.8.0.41 without any obvious problems.

Anyway, more importantly, great to see you back.

How are things Uni wise?
Scraggle
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 01:28
It seems Sonar is a recent update and it also seems that I can disable it completely and keep the rest of Norton working as advertised ... problem solved!

@GG Thanks, good to be back
Uni is fun(!) just completed year 2 and was hoping for an internship this year. I had interviews with Eutechnyx and Ubisoft but no joy. So back to Uni for my third year in October.



Gasbag
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Posted: 27th Aug 2010 20:18
I am having the same problem with Norton and yes it is a new service. I have just been turning sonar off while working in DB.

But it is troubling since eventually I would like to distribute my work to other folks. So telling users who don't know me to turn off a feature of Norton before using the software, will raise an eyebrow at least. And some of them might freak if they don't turn Norton off; running the DB program triggers a red Norton pop-up, just like a virus attack. It would be great if there was a way to certify the software as safe with Norton.

But I have even had "sonar" delete executables from commercial games ("Takeda3") so I guess I don't feel like Norton is picking on just DB...

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Dr Tank
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Posted: 27th Aug 2010 22:01
I use Avast. Not really had any problems, not really had any viruses, and it's free.
BMacZero
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Posted: 27th Aug 2010 22:42
Quote: "Uni is fun(!) just completed year 2 and was hoping for an internship this year. I had interviews with Eutechnyx and Ubisoft but no joy. So back to Uni for my third year in October."

Sounds like where I'll be in 2 years...hopefully I'll have better luck


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The Slayer
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Posted: 27th Aug 2010 22:44
Quote: "I use Avast. Not really had any problems, not really had any viruses, and it's free. "

Yep, I'll agree on that one.

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
Alien Menace
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Posted: 28th Aug 2010 00:50 Edited at: 31st Aug 2010 21:46
This hasn't been an issue with McAfee on my system but I have heard of some other AVG software having issues with DBP executables as well. I think TGC needs to address this issue and identify what pattern the compiler is outputting that is making it look like a virus. Potentially a huge problem for people trying to sell their games.

Edit: meant to say that I haven't seen the issue on my system with since switching over to McAfee from Norton a couple of days ago.

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Michael P
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Posted: 28th Aug 2010 13:58
Anti virus is a waste of time. It slows down your system and can never fully protect you. To get a virus you have to allow a virus to run on your system, so anti virus only limits the impact of your own stupidity. If you know how to use a computer properly, you don't need an anti virus.

Gasbag
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Posted: 28th Aug 2010 15:12
Area 51 hit it exactly. DBP becomes a flawed option for game creation if games created with it trip virus protection software.

I agree that TGC should be looking at this with a pretty high priority.

Since so much of the world is using these virus protection products, doing nothing could potentially be a mortal wound for DBP....that would be sad.

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Gasbag
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Posted: 28th Aug 2010 15:31
A quick follow-up.

I found an interesting discussion on the Norton forums...looks like other developers are having the same issue:

http://community.norton.com/t5/Norton-Internet-Security-Norton/SONAR-is-deleting-programs/m-p/160660

There is also a link where you can submit your software to Norton for checking.

https://submit.symantec.com/false_positive/

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DVader
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Posted: 28th Aug 2010 16:40
I have lost a lot of old projects this way (more than I can remember) due to scans of my backups auto deleting em . I use commodo at present but it was probably avast that did most damage for me. Seems a common fault on virus checkers to treat DB as malicious code I seem to remember reading it is because of how DB treats the memory somehow.
Oh @ Michael P, there are viruses out there that can infect your system without your knowledge. Can't remember the name of the one I am thinking of but it could infect unprotected systems within an hour or less of being connected to the net.This was due to windows security issues at the time on windows XP, but you could get that without even browsing the net.
Best bet for backups is Disks, or possibly online storage. I just am very careful now never to allow virus scans to delete stuff automatically, and read the messages a little more carefully lol.

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Indicium
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Posted: 28th Aug 2010 18:20
Quote: "Anti virus is a waste of time."


How would you ever know you're infected? Also, because I've had a virus before, I'm therefore stupid?

Scraggle
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Posted: 29th Aug 2010 12:24
I emailed Lee. This is his response:

Quote: "I do get the very occasional email about one of the big virus checkers eating DBP executables, but there are settings in the good ones to train the software to identify safe executables and skip over them. I have used NOD for many years which is just about the best security system out there and until NOD finds DBP executables offensive I am not too concerned that I'm doing something naughty Try looking into the system settings of the virus checker you use and you should find a 'filter' section which allows you to discriminate which file types get quarantined / deleted / skipped. Good luck and if all else fails, go for NOD32 as it's the bees knees "




Green Gandalf
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Posted: 29th Aug 2010 12:39
How would that advice help? Aren't a lot of viruses actually in exe files so you wouldn't want to turn off that setting surely? The problem is that DBPro exe files are being recognised as bad.

The advice to use NOD32 is helpful though. I'll make a mental note of that.
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 29th Aug 2010 12:40
NOD32 is great in most regards. I have been using ESET smart security since I got a malware infection that caused me to restore my pc while I had NOD32. They informed me that it wasn't a virus but malware so not covered under their protection. In my book if it can totally disable a computer it should fall under a virus category. ESET agrees so far so I am using them It warns me all the time on sites like myspace (only way to talk to some family ... don't ask) and shuts down any harmfull popups so far. 2 years on ESET and no virus or malware infections bad enough to cause any harm! Also ESET has never reported nor eaten any dbp exe as a virus.

DVader
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Posted: 30th Aug 2010 14:44
Quote "I have used NOD for many years which is just about the best security system out there and until NOD finds DBP executables offensive I am not too concerned that I'm doing something naughty."
Eek! Tell that to all the souls who lost DB projects when they were unaware of the problem, on pretty much ANY other anti virus. Also, to ignore market leaders such as Norton (not the best, but still a big brand) and say just go into the anti virus settings and sort it is a cop out.
If we were to sell a game or application made in DB, do we then have to tell users to do the same? Unacceptable. I can't think of one game I have purchased that requires this and am pretty sure there won't be in the future. But the thought of the potential horror story you could have with complaints ,"My game has vanished!", after automatic scans could be horrendous!
As far as I know it has been a problem with Dark Basic, and Dark Basic Professional since day one. I am guessing it is not so much of a can't be wasting time on this issue, as a can't really do a fat lot about it now job.
Oh, as far as I am aware Blitz 3D doesn't suffer the same problems, although I can't say 100% sure as I only dabbled with it for a short while. Too used to DB now I guess.

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 30th Aug 2010 22:08
Yes. I didn't think it was a helpful response either.
Alien Menace
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Posted: 30th Aug 2010 22:44
I am surprised and extremely unhappy with Lee's reply.

wow.

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Jambo B
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 23:25
Eep. Can anyone from TGC confirm that this problem is being taken seriously? I'm in the process of releasing some software into the hands of a number of colleges, and I can only imagine the backlash that would result if their virus checkers started doing a tap dance as the app was installed.

Got to agree with Alien Menace. I too am surprised and disappointed by Lee's reply.

I would also say that it's not in the mandate of virus checker manufacturers to solve this problem; if DBP is compiling exes that look suspicious, it's TGC's fault!

Hope this gets sorted soon... I really don't want to have to go back to C++ to interact with DirectX, that was a complete pain in the arm. Not to mention all the time/cash spent so far on dev.
SilkNikita
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2010 23:21
I've had nortons do the same thing to me a few times now. They seem a bit paranoid about new software.....Really I don't know what threat that would be created with less than 10 people use.

THAT BEING SAID.......

I am assuming that the reason that most software that is installed has a warning with "PLEASE TURN OFF ANTIVIRUS PROGRAMS BEFORE INSTALL" or something to that effect is becouse of that very same reason. I dont know if once an antivirus program would remove the program after it is turned back on or not.

If it is saying something like "warning, less that 10 people use this program" then if i was to create a program then I (myself) would give that program to 11 different people and then try it again. If it still came up with less than 10 people use this software, then I would complain to nortons that they are hindering my progress for some odd reason......

although I (myself) like to use antivirus software to ensure nothing has creeped into anything I have set up, I dont have antivirus running during the program and compile stages. not a suggestion, just saying what I do.

toodles.......

~;SilkNikita;~
Alien Menace
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Posted: 4th Sep 2010 00:06 Edited at: 4th Sep 2010 00:08
I can confirm what the TGC tech support told me:

Quote: "
The following is a reply to your enquiry:

> Anti-Virus software is deleting DBPro compiled applications and reporting
> them to users as viruses. What do you plan to do about this? Obviously we
> cannot change what people use for AV software and if Norton AV Sonar (and
> reportedly others as well) think DBPRO executables are viruses this then
> how are we suppose to our sell our products to people?
________________________________________________
One of two possibilities.

First, you have a virus on your system. This is infecting any newly created EXE file.

Secondly, the virus checkers in question are producing false positives. In which case you must advise your customers to contact their virus providers, and submit the program to them.

FPS Creator has been sold by The Game Creators for a number of years, this is compiled and written in DarkBASIC Professional. We've never had a single report of users virus checkers deleting the program EXE. As far as I'm aware this isn't a big issue with our user base so no plans exist to combat the problem. Any cases I've heard of so far has been down to users having a virus infected system.
________________________________________________
The following is a reply to your enquiry:

> Hi,
>
> There is no virus on my system, that is not the cause. The problem is a
> false positive, something about how the DBP compiler is producing the exe
> nowadays seems to be the issue. Please view this topic on Norton's AV forum
> concerning DBPRO:
>
> http://community.norton.com/t5/Norton-Internet-Security-Norton/SONAR-interferes-with-some-Sofware-Development/m-p/246469
>
> and on your own forums:
>
> http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=173235&b=1
>
> Specifically, you should read this forum topic:
>
> http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=172353&b=1
>
> My guess is that this problem relates to a recent update to DBP so you may
> want to install Norton and enable SONAR on a test PC then start compiling
> stuff with 7.5 and see what happens. I had Norton on my desktop PC and it
> did the same thing, I switched over to McAfee a few days ago and everything
> has been fine so far. The problem still persists on my laptop which is
> still running Norton AV. Sonar does seem to leave my older exes alone so
> that may make a case that an upgrade has introduced this behavior (as
> observed in the forum post above).
>
> I implore you to take this seriously and do some further investigation.
> Thanks,
> Steve
________________________________________________
False positives are the domain of your virus provider. We have no control over how their software does or doesn't detect viruses. This is an issue for their support services. Sorry I'm unable to help you with this matter.
"


What awesome tech support!
Maybe it's time for me to learn C.

Intel Core Duo2 E6850 3.0 GHz - 2x Geforce 8800 GTS SLI - 6GB RAM - Creative X-FI - Windows 7 64-bit.
Doz
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Posted: 4th Sep 2010 03:36
Keep in mind that some virus scanners have been known to delete Windows system files as well. It is entirely up to the scanner as to what it decides is a virus or not. Either submit the problem to your virus scan company or switch to a new one. If TGC were to "fix" it so that the exe was ignored by the virus scanner, I'm sure the virus scan manufacturer would not appreciate that, its just asking for malicious code to be written.

I'd recommend Microsoft's Security Essentials, its free if you have a legit copy of Windows, has a very low footprint, and has yet to delete any of my projects in any compiler.
Jambo B
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Posted: 10th Sep 2010 00:32
Hmm, the answer is not to "fix" it so as the exe is ignored, but to find out what in the exe is triggering a positive in the virus checker, and adjust the way that exes are compiled.
Igglepud
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 21:31
Avast Anti Virus is free and awesome...I hate Norton.

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 28th Sep 2010 21:51 Edited at: 28th Sep 2010 21:52
I have just upgraded Norton and have experienced the same problem.

I contacted Norton support and the solution may be simple. In Norton go to Settings/Computer Settings/AntiVirus and SONAR exclusions/Items to Exclude From Auto-Protect and SONAR Detection. Then click Add and browse to the folders to add. You will probably need to add your main DarkBASIC Professional folder (or your The Game Creators folder) and the temporary folder the compiler uses which on my laptop is the following mouthful: C:\Documents and Settings\jim.JIMSLAPTOP.000\Local Settings\Temp. You may need to add other folders which have DBP exe files in them.

I'll post back with an update after a couple of days of using that setting.
Alien Menace
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 05:51 Edited at: 6th Oct 2010 06:00
Quote: "
Hmm, the answer is not to "fix" it so as the exe is ignored, but to find out what in the exe is triggering a positive in the virus checker, and adjust the way that exes are compiled.
"


I think TGC should look into this and if it is their fault, then they should fix it. If it is Symantec's issue then they should work with them to get it corrected. Apparently though, this is way too much to ask.

You can change your AV software or add an exception and sure that may solve the problem on your machine, but what about people that buy your game that are using Norton? When they email you that your program is seen as a virus and is deleted, is it reasonable to suggest they switch to Avast or add exceptions to their AV software just so they can run your game?

I find this situation very frustrating.

Intel Core Duo2 E6850 3.0 GHz - 2x Geforce 8800 GTS SLI - 6GB RAM - Creative X-FI - Windows 7 64-bit.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 13:08
I suspect Norton is at fault here, not TGC - but I admit I'm not sure. Norton says the exe file is suspicious "because fewer than 5 Internet users" have used the exe - which is obviously true for any exe I've just made. Norton's Help desk suggested I applied to have all my exe files treated as "safe" which struck me as an odd solution. Fine for a big software company perhaps, but not suitable for us small independent or casual developers.

I wonder what Norton does with exe files created by Visual Studio? Are they treated as suspicious too? If not, why not?

Does anyone know?
baxslash
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 13:18
Quote: "I suspect Norton is at fault here, not TGC - but I admit I'm not sure. Norton says the exe file is suspicious "because fewer than 5 Internet users" have used the exe - which is obviously true for any exe I've just made. Norton's Help desk suggested I applied to have all my exe files treated as "safe" which struck me as an odd solution. Fine for a big software company perhaps, but not suitable for us small independent or casual developers.

I wonder what Norton does with exe files created by Visual Studio? Are they treated as suspicious too? If not, why not?

Does anyone know? "

I don't know what happens with VS exe's but surely there are ways to track dodgy exe's anyway? I seem to remember DBP compiles each exe with some unique ID that can be traced back to whoever owns the DBP that built it. I assume VS does something similar? If that's the case then there's no good reason why TGC can't apply to have DBP exe's considered 'safe' if it's possible using VS it should be possible using DBP?

Any DarkGDK users had this problem?

Michael P
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 13:26
Quote: "Norton says the exe file is suspicious "because fewer than 5 Internet users" have used the exe"

That's not why its treated as suspicious. Its suspicious because it has traits which a known malicious piece of software has.

Norton doesn't care because TGC is a small company so it doesn't matter and its very expensive for them to rectify the problem. The issue is that DBP can be used to make a virus, so they can't just say all DBP exe's are safe.

It is Norton's fault and TGC definitely shouldn't go out of their way to fix this problem, its a waste of their time. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day, false positives happen all the time, that's why they have an ignore list.

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 13:26
Quote: "Any DarkGDK users had this problem?"


Good question.

Perhaps the problem is the location of the temporary folder that DBP uses while compiling?

It would be nice to have a definitive answer from someone who knows.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 14:04
Quote: "That's not why its treated as suspicious. Its suspicious because it has traits which a known malicious piece of software has."


That's not what Norton seems to suggest. Anyway, I haven't seen the problem since I made the changes I mentioned earlier.

I wonder what would happen if I put some DBP exe files into a different folder and then do a scan? Must remember to try that when I next fire up my laptop.
Jon4433
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 19:03
Having no anti-virus is free and simple why i use it, and no anti-virus should delete exe's should they?

Hey im Jon
Jambo B
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 21:06
Quote: "Having no anti-virus is free and simple why i use it, and no anti-virus should delete exe's should they?"


Most AV software moves virus-positive exes into some sort of protected "vault", where they are prevented from being executed. Obviously, this would stop your software from running when installed on someone's computer.

Trigger support calls and word getting around that you are distributing virus-ridden software. Damaging to your reputation and sales, to say the least.

Hmm, this is all a bit of a mess, isn't it?
old_School
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 21:47
I have to agree with Jambo on tis topic. This is a mess. An to be honest, Im anti Nortain. Ive been in the computer repair industry for several years. An I tell all my clients this basicly.

Anti virus is like car insurance. Its useless until you need it. It will cost you alot in performance and price. But it is important to a degree to have. I recommend using AVG or Avast. They are free anti virus programs they work.

Its true Nortain and some of the more popular programs out there say they work better. But do they really work better overall? To be honest no. Its like compaing coke and pepsi. Both taste good. But in the end it makes you fat and it loaded with sugar. Nortain may have all those bells and whistles attached. An of course the fancy solgains. But is a bell or whistle really worth the price. An at the end of the day will that ancy solgain protect you? Probably not. So I recomend you use this product. It will save you money and perform just as well with out the fancy gimmics. An it will not lower your performance.

Thats my little sells pitch lol This issue listed is another reason why I don't use Nortain. Its crap in a box. Now on the flip side of this issue. Back in my younger days. Me and my friends on yahoo chat use to do a little virus making. Why? Because we were dumb and young. Anyway, to test are viruses, we used Nortain to see if it was detectable or not. If Nortain detected it, we remade it. Most of the time Nortain did not even see it.

Keep in mind these were not little joking virues. These were format your HD to no return and write zeros to it aka destroy your stuff virues. Anyway point being Nortain is crap. I personaly don't even run a anti virus protection.

An to answer the question how do you know if your infected? Ultra easy guys. Its called task manager and regedit. First thing I check when I am troubleshooting a computer is task manager on the admin account. If I see processes above 40 and Im not running anything. Red flag. If I see cpu useage or mem really high on idle. Red Flag. If I open up regedit and see a bunch of weird file extentions or anything out of place. Red Flag. An final place to check. MSCONFIG. If you have a bunch of tool bars or junk on startup. Red Flag for spyware.

Not to mention, you guys are programmers. An I assume you know how well a computer should run. Use common sense seriously. An remember we get paid because unlike users, we use common logical troubleshooting skills to see common sense problems. Users are parnoid and most cases have no idea.
sladeiw
17
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Joined: 16th May 2009
Location: UK
Posted: 7th Oct 2010 00:07
When you run an excutable that your NAV dosen't `know`, it checks the app's signature against their own servers. There is no heuristic analysis to see if it contains suspicious code, purely being a `new` app is enough. If only a few people have run that app then you get the popup warning.

The trouble is when developing a game or whatever, the executable is going to change regularly and so will the sig. (No idea how they generate signatures, and how much change to your app is needed to flag it as new) It happens with other apps that are changed/updated regularly, such as rootkit scanners (combofix being a regular one).

Obviously you can exclude your app from scans, but as you said it will be a problem when other people running NAV install it. When you have finalized your game, you could ask a few people on the forum running NAV to install and allow it, thus eventually marking it as safe. Or, just submit it to Norton and hope they care.

NAV is aimed at inexperienced internet users likely to be swayed by reassuring big green messages saying `everything is fine`. I have cleaned numerous PCs that are riddled with spyware/viruses/trojans etc that have the latest greatest NAV installed. No AV is perfect but NAV is one of the more annoying ones, and as other people suggested I would just go with Avast, AVG or one of the other free ones. They will all catch infected files but IMO 99% of infections come from user actions that no AV can prevent.
Michael P
20
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Joined: 6th Mar 2006
Location: London (UK)
Posted: 7th Oct 2010 00:10 Edited at: 7th Oct 2010 00:12
Quote: "I have to agree with Jambo on tis topic. This is a mess. An to be honest, Im anti Nortain. Ive been in the computer repair industry for several years. An I tell all my clients this basicly.

Anti virus is like car insurance. Its useless until you need it. It will cost you alot in performance and price. But it is important to a degree to have. I recommend using AVG or Avast. They are free anti virus programs they work.

Its true Nortain and some of the more popular programs out there say they work better. But do they really work better overall? To be honest no. Its like compaing coke and pepsi. Both taste good. But in the end it makes you fat and it loaded with sugar. Nortain may have all those bells and whistles attached. An of course the fancy solgains. But is a bell or whistle really worth the price. An at the end of the day will that ancy solgain protect you? Probably not. So I recomend you use this product. It will save you money and perform just as well with out the fancy gimmics. An it will not lower your performance.

Thats my little sells pitch lol This issue listed is another reason why I don't use Nortain. Its crap in a box. Now on the flip side of this issue. Back in my younger days. Me and my friends on yahoo chat use to do a little virus making. Why? Because we were dumb and young. Anyway, to test are viruses, we used Nortain to see if it was detectable or not. If Nortain detected it, we remade it. Most of the time Nortain did not even see it.

Keep in mind these were not little joking virues. These were format your HD to no return and write zeros to it aka destroy your stuff virues. Anyway point being Nortain is crap. I personaly don't even run a anti virus protection.

An to answer the question how do you know if your infected? Ultra easy guys. Its called task manager and regedit. First thing I check when I am troubleshooting a computer is task manager on the admin account. If I see processes above 40 and Im not running anything. Red flag. If I see cpu useage or mem really high on idle. Red Flag. If I open up regedit and see a bunch of weird file extentions or anything out of place. Red Flag. An final place to check. MSCONFIG. If you have a bunch of tool bars or junk on startup. Red Flag for spyware.

Not to mention, you guys are programmers. An I assume you know how well a computer should run. Use common sense seriously. An remember we get paid because unlike users, we use common logical troubleshooting skills to see common sense problems. Users are parnoid and most cases have no idea."

Apart from all the spelling mistakes I agree with most of that; well said! Norton and the company surrounding it is evil, no doubt about it. Its an example of what happens when you combine bad coders with bad management.

Anti virus, as I've said before, is over rated massively. If you get infected severely anti virus usually doesn't help much. If the user is stupid then the computer will get infected no matter what. If the user isn't stupid then the computer probably won't get infected, but with anti virus you can be 99% sure you'l be okay as opposed to 90%.

On the topic of which anti virus is best. I now use NOD32 and it looks like it should be doing a good job and unlike Norton it isn't constantly spamming me with alerts and slowing my computer down; it just sits there happily doing its job!

Madscientist
16
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Joined: 23rd Aug 2009
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posted: 7th Oct 2010 02:11
I had the same problem on my laptop which came with a trial of Norton. For me I just permanently turned off sonar by simply opening Norton and choosing "off".

My computer surpasses all the technologies of the day. What computer do I have?

Phaelax
DBPro Master
23
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Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 7th Oct 2010 03:13
Quote: "If you know how to use a computer properly, you don't need an anti virus."

wow, dumbest remark I've read yet. Code Red ring any bells?

I doubt DBP is at fault here, since though of us with older Norton are just fine and only the newer versions seem to be affected with this false-positive. Technically, I used Symantec corporate, not Norton.

Lately, I've installed Avira on my laptop and in its most current state it has not detected DB as any sort of threat.

Although, it would be nice if Symantec would let me choose the course of action when an infected file is detected. I used to have a collection of old trojans (don't ask) and it deleted them without asking my permission.

Quote: "n to answer the question how do you know if your infected? Ultra easy guys. Its called task manager and regedit."

Oh yea, super easy. Because every virus shows up as a process in task manager, right?
The whole point of AV software to prevent the virus from running in the first place, otherwise, the damage is probably already done.

Quote: "Its true Nortain and some of the more popular programs out there say they work better. But do they really work better overall? To be honest no"

Based on what evidence? Norton does very well it tests and has a low level of false-positives. It's not #1, but it's in the top. AVG has good detection for most things, but terrible when it comes to worms and has a high level of false-positives. But it runs smoothly, as does Avast. I run Avira because it seemed the best overall, despite having slower performance when compared to others. Since using it(which immediately picked up something on my usb drive), I've noticed no performance difference and would imagine the others would be unnoticeable as well. If you're using the entire Norton 360 security suit or whatever it's called now, then yea it's a little bloated but then you're running more than just the AV and that's an unfair comparison.


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" ~ Arthur C. Clarke
Dodga
16
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Joined: 12th Dec 2009
Location:
Posted: 7th Oct 2010 04:55
I honestly can't fathom why any self respecting programmer would use NORTON. There is a reason they had to program a removal tool for norton, because it is essentially a virus in and of itself and locks down your system and slows it down alot. Getting norton is the equivelant of hiring a thug off the street to be your body guard, it might keep all the viruses away, but at heavy personal risk to yourself.
Alien Menace
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 11th Jan 2005
Location: Earth (just visiting)
Posted: 7th Oct 2010 07:11
Quote: "It is Norton's fault and TGC definitely shouldn't go out of their way to fix this problem, its a waste of their time. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day, false positives happen all the time, that's why they have an ignore list.
"


How have you determined so factually that it is Norton's fault?

Intel Core Duo2 E6850 3.0 GHz - 2x Geforce 8800 GTS SLI - 6GB RAM - Creative X-FI - Windows 7 64-bit.
Dodga
16
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Joined: 12th Dec 2009
Location:
Posted: 7th Oct 2010 08:49
@ Michael P agree

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