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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Could FPSC use a Bounty System?

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Nbt
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 16:54
With TGC being a rather small company (and the FPSC part being a small part of that) when compared to the big name engines out there.
The amount of resources must also be rather low that can be spent on hiring extra programmers etc?

I was just wondering if we could make use of the bounty system that many open source projects use and bid for extra features that are just too time consuming/costly, whatever, for poor old Lee and crew to get round to.

This way the gifted modders/scripters/artists etc here could take on the project if/and when the bounty hits a total they feel happy to work for. Damn if the total gets to a good level, maybe even Lee will take up a few

I know many may think "hey we already paid for FPSC, why should we pay more!", but we already got what we paid for and lots more (in my opinion at least) and I can't see this being any different than buying a decent model pack, or game mod. The biggest difference is with the bounty system you get what most people want, as the total should be biggest for the things most people want.

I'm a great believer of putting my money where my mouth is, but fully understand if this is silly

Marc Steene
FPSC Master
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 16:58
This is actually a really good idea. The only problem is, people may pledge money which they may refuse to pay.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
Nbt
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 17:23
It does not work that way (normally). You actually have to send the money in for it to actually be counted, no pledges. The company then holds this money until the bounty taker completes the item and then they are paid.

Just think how much money would be raised if every member sent just $1 and you can imagine how much extra goodies we could get

Proper MP anyone ??

WWIV Studios
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 19:22
I like the idea

Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 20:08 Edited at: 31st Jul 2010 20:25
Quote: "It does not work that way (normally). You actually have to send the money in for it to actually be counted, no pledges. The company then holds this money until the bounty taker completes the item and then they are paid.

Just think how much money would be raised if every member sent just $1 and you can imagine how much extra goodies we could get

Proper MP anyone ??"

I didn't know what to think when you said bounty, but it all makes sense now.
I guess the pledges would be made with the understanding that if no one accepts the task then the dollars may sit there forever and a day.

All in all though I think this is a wonderful idea, but there would be kinks to work out like when two teams invest months of work on a new feature.
Only one team would get the bounty and the others would get nothing but time wasted?
Or would a lock be put on the pledges once a team/individual accepted the task?
And if so, then what would prevent teams that will never finish their task to tie up features that others could have accomplished.

It would have to be first come first serve basis as far as who can complete the task and claim the bounty in order to be fair.
But again, that would leave a lot of unfinished projects for those who can't develop fast enough.
That however is ideal for the end user, because it would promote fast turnaround times for the completion of task meaning a lot of new features fast.
Well, as fast as the bounties can be raised high enough for the extra help to commit.

Very interesting concept though indeed.


Quote: "Proper MP anyone ??"

I think a test run on a single major improvement would be a good idea.
Much better than letting anyone and everyone post bounties for everything creating chaos.
TGC has pretty much said that any improvements to the multiplayer would have to come from third party mods because they are focusing on single player at the moment.
I think this bounty idea for improving the multiplayer is an excellent mix, and certainly the way to go.

I think this Bounty idea should be done as a third party mod venture and not managed or sponsored by TGC.
They have enough on their plate as it is, and if this multiplayer development is going to be third party then why not the bounty for it too?

Lindbergh flew the Atlantic non-stop to win a prize, and many great innovations have come from rewards for completion of tasks like the X prize.
History has proven that $100,000 of prize money can prompt millions of dollars of consolidated research from prospective winners.
This bounty idea is similar in nature to those prizes, and I think everyone pitching in on a bounty could pay off big.

Another advantage of doing it as a mod is that the donars could receive a free copy, and others could pay a small fee to raise a bounty for the next project.

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness
knxrb
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 20:25
Quote: "Proper MP anyone ??"

I would definately jump at the chance to do that

knxrb
Toffeemouse
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 21:09
This is a great idea and will definatly solve the issues of stuff like "torches, vehicles and mounted weapons"

which will realistically will probably not be implimented.

I think TGC need to take this suggestion seriously, I was thinking of writing out a letter with the pros and cons in a proffesional format in attempts for them to consider your great idea properly.
Nbt
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 23:25
Firstly I would prefer the bounty not to be held and organised by a third party and would much prefer it done via TGC. I just feel that many more members would send money in to TGC than a 3rd party. Plus it is a lot of responsibility to put on a 3rd party member, as it would really have to be one of the better known and respected members like bond1, eai etc and I very much doubt they would want that.

There are a few ways I would see it working. Like the top requests are taken from say the migration thread for example and placed in a poll that we vote on and the top 5 or so are listed up for bounty bids.

Another way is just open bidding where someone makes a bid on a request they really want and others will hopefully add to that bid and/or others that they agree with.

A 3rd way is a member lists something they can offer (hopefully from reading what people want in the many topics here) and puts up a bounty they would require to take the job on. Then we try and hit the total and the job gets done.

Or simply a combination of all three, which is how many bounty systems work.

I'm also not a lover of only the people that donated to the bounty getting stuff free and everyone else having to pay though. Firstly not everyone here has the funds, as we have a lot of younger members and students that cannot always get the funds. Mainly though it adds to the work of the bounty holder keeping track of everyone's donations, as then you have the "well I donated $10 and others donated $1, so why can't I have 10 extra bits than them?" etc lol

I'm glad it has met with a warm welcome though and I am sure we can sort out a good way to do this. As I would really like this to workout as I really think this can be a good way forward at getting those things we believe will improve our FPSC experience

Quote: "knxrb wrote: I would definately jump at the chance to do that"

That's very good to hear, as I'm sure many will agree

Soviet176
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 23:51
Quote: "Proper MP anyone ??"


WOOT!

anayar
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Posted: 1st Aug 2010 01:23
I think this is a great idea, and would definately be willing to donate some money for it!

Hope this actually works out, and TGC considers it seriously... [hint]Somebody should notify Lee of this idea[\hint]

Cheers,
Anayar


For KeithC
Monkey Mja
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Posted: 1st Aug 2010 04:15 Edited at: 1st Aug 2010 04:16
Quote: "I'm also not a lover of only the people that donated to the bounty getting stuff free and everyone else having to pay though. Firstly not everyone here has the funds, as we have a lot of younger members and students that cannot always get the funds. "
As long as people won't be lazy and wouldn't just go "Oh someone else will pay for it.", this could be a revolution for TGC. Although I do agree that once it's released, everyone should be able to use it, because otherwise, it just wouldn't help make FPSC better, it would just give some developers with lots of money extra perks.

Yet this is a great idea, and if it's not implanted...Lets just say that bad things will happen >=D


Also, what about bugs? Someone could get the script first, yet it could be extremely bugs bunny and hardly work at all. Then what?

- Monkey
Nbt
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 02:48
Quote: "[hint]Somebody should notify Lee of this idea[\hint]"


I think we need a little more interest and input before we can really treat it as a serious idea to be honest.

Not sure 9 members in agreement constitutes a must have

Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 04:28 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2010 05:12
Quote: "I'm also not a lover of only the people that donated to the bounty getting stuff free and everyone else having to pay though. Firstly not everyone here has the funds, as we have a lot of younger members and students that cannot always get the funds. Mainly though it adds to the work of the bounty holder keeping track of everyone's donations, as then you have the "well I donated $10 and others donated $1, so why can't I have 10 extra bits than them?" etc lol"

If they are donating then it is not free (bad choice of words on my part), and why should the others get a free ride and why shouldn't they have to pitch in?
If they can't kick in at least a buck for an extra feature then I don't think the lack of the feature will be a deal breaker for their game on its budget.
And if they are that broke they should be learning DBPro so they can collect some bounties, or just code their own features for free.

It would be more like an automated thing using PayPal with an IPN program creating passwords for that email address.
Then they could just log on enter the email and password (just like loggin in to TGC), and bam there is the download. (just like TGC's automated system)
It is not a lot of work, just a little effort at the start.
Any size donation of $1 or more would qualify for a download, and if there is no incentive to contribute then the freeriders will be kicking back and waiting.

Good luck with the nobody has to pitch in planting or weeding, but everyone gets to harvest idea.

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness
knxrb
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 05:34
Quote: "It would be more like an automated thing using PayPal with an IPN program creating passwords for that email address."

Yeah, that's simple to setup, I use the PayPal & AlertPay IPN's for the FPSC IP system.

knxrb
Monkey Mja
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 07:11
Quote: "If they are donating then it is not free (bad choice of words on my part), and why should the others get a free ride and why shouldn't they have to pitch in?"


I think there should be like "I'll make drivable veichles for $10" and some members contribute to the project, the developer gives the script out, he earned 10 bucks, a fixed amount of money, so you know you'll make the profit you want from the script. You can then proceed to your next script.

That way:
- Some people pay a small price.
- The developer gets a large amount of money.
- It's released to the forums for use.

- Monkey
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 08:40 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2010 08:47
Quote: "I think there should be like "I'll make drivable veichles for $10" and some members contribute to the project, the developer gives the script out, he earned 10 bucks, a fixed amount of money, so you know you'll make the profit you want from the script. You can then proceed to your next script."

I thought we were talking about modding the engine, not writing FPI scripts.
Raising a $10 bounty was not what I had in mind, but something a bit larger.

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness
Kravenwolf
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 08:49 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2010 08:54
Quote: "I think there should be like "I'll make drivable veichles for $10" and some members contribute to the project, the developer gives the script out, he earned 10 bucks"


Believe it or not, I actually considered trying this concept out awhile ago with model packs, in order to contribute media to the community, and still make a little money on the side to help pay the bills. It would have been an alternative to uploading assets to the GC store, or selling them as official TGC packs for $20, which not everyone can afford. But, I decided against it for the time being because I couldn't think of any way to annouce the idea without coming off as selfish (due to my past free contributions). I wasn't sure how community members would take to the idea, so I just left it be

Anyway, I like the idea of a "bounty system"). Money is always a good incentive, or a 'push' for people to get things done. I think a series of donations tabs for individual requests would be a route to consider, so people's demands aren't left out because they didn't want to jump on the bandwagon with everybody else (ie);

- Donate for multiplayer development

- Donate for Project Blue integration

- Donate for stock media update

(Apologies if this was already suggested; I didn't read over the entire thread).

Kravenwolf

vortech
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 10:19
Nbt
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 12:30
@Conjured Entertainment: This is exactly what I wanted mate differing/even conflicting ideas and opinions, so we can get views from all sides and hopefully iron out any/all niggles before we go the more official route with this

Also no it's not just for modding the engine, but hopefully a bit more than an individuals request of a driving script too.

It's more like kravenwolf has shown about, engine improvements, along with enhancements to media and resources etc. This would of course include scripting etc, just imagine a full pack of DAI scripts etc by the forums greats.

After all it's down to the us the members to bid on what we want and many my think a full on horror set to add to the existing ww2 and scifi ones is more important than an engine improvement.

@kravenwolf: good to have your support

@Vortex: Yes mate that is the sort of idea

Donating through TGC: The reason I still think we need this handled via TGC is twofold 1) as I stated above many more will donate through a tried and tested (and trusted!) route and 2) maybe we could even use store points for donations, as many members have not got debit/credit cards etc. There was a request for knxrb to sell his wonderful FPSC IP package via the store for this very reason.

Anyway keep the discussion going and hopefully more will like the idea. I really hope so, as we have many gifted coders and artists here that could really do a lot for us and FPSC if this works out.

vortech
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 12:32
I like that idea.

Bond1: When I saw it i think pie.
Marc Steene
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 15:38
Quote: "maybe we could even use store points for donations, as many members have not got debit/credit cards etc. "


But how are those people supposed to get store points in the first place without a debit/credit card?


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
JRH
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 15:55
There are plenty of free offers in the GC store, so theoretically if done through the store external companies could end up paying for this.

Nbt
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 18:25
Quote: "Marc Steene: But how are those people supposed to get store points in the first place without a debit/credit card?"

To be honest Marc I really have no idea, as have always bought my points via paypal?
I just saw some replies in the FPSC IP 4.0 topic saying they could not buy it via paypal or whatever, as they did not have a credit or debit card and should sell it via the store is all

@JRH: Sorry mate, but I'm not to sure as to what you mean ??

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