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FPSC Classic Product Chat / License question concerning 117, 118 and beyond

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 11:22
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With the switch from the old license agreement to the amazingly open-source GNU Lesser General Public License, do we still have to provide the "Built with FPS Creator" la-dee-da in commercial games? It's always been a bit misleading on the official site when it says "There are no commercial restrictions on the sale" and, though I love FPSC to death, having that needed to be mandatorily plastered in the credits of your game is kinda a product killer. I know droves of players that, even if they have a good time playing a game and couldn't tell it's with FPSC, they'd scream Bloody Mary when they see that. There are quite a few commercial games now that don't hold up to that anyway so I was wondering if it'd been officially abolished. If it hasn't, I'm begging you Lee... PLEASE!

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 10th Aug 2010 03:58
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Ummm... anyone?

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SH4773R
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Posted: 10th Aug 2010 04:09
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that would be great

Who the hell is General Failure? And why is he trying to read my hard disk?

My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
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Monkey Mja
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Posted: 10th Aug 2010 05:38
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We don't need to in non commercial games? EPIC! *Runs off with a huge grin*

But I agree. Buying FPSC should come with the license.

- Monkey
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Bugsy
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Posted: 10th Aug 2010 07:09
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why would you be ashamed to say your game was built in FPSC? even if it sounds nooby, anyone who badmouths you obviously has no Idea of the work that went in to the project.

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skype = isaacpreston. I want to talk to YOU
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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 10th Aug 2010 07:44 Edited at: 10th Aug 2010 07:44
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Quote: "But I agree. Buying FPSC should come with the license."


@Monkey Mja: Lesser GNU IS the license that goes along with the source code, but the other stipulations are my major concern.

Quote: "why would you be ashamed to say your game was built in FPSC? even if it sounds nooby, anyone who badmouths you obviously has no Idea of the work that went in to the project."


@Bugsy: Though it isn't right, it's the way it is. My team and I have been guests at a couple of gaming conventions for Physix and the project was even slated for publishing at one point (and we're working out some future deals with some other companies) and no matter how "good" it looks or how fun it is, whenever anyone finds out that it's in FPSC, I always get a condescending "Ah, I see... it's made in FPS Creator... Oh, that's nice". And though I feel that people need to know that games made in FPSC can have a lot of effort put into them and be just as fun/beautiful as any given indie game, FPSC is almost always seen as either inferior or a "make-the-game-for-me" button. I lobbied for the name to be changed to something more professional, but apparently Lee thought it was fine the way it was. I love FPSC, but in the long run, until people see it as a legitimate engine (which won't happen in the life of Physix), having the name on your projects is just bad business.

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Soviet176
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Posted: 10th Aug 2010 19:10
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I have to agree with Wraith staff here. It's very true, people can't grasp the concept of work put into the game, there mind does not fumble on that subject, the only thing a consumer can see, is it was made in FPS creator, which has gotten a bad name for one reason or another, as not a legitimate engine.

Putting fear back into sliced bread since 4th May 2010
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 10th Aug 2010 19:55
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Personally if I ever got to a position where I had a commercially viable game to release, I think it would be quite cool to have FPSC advertised somewhere. Kind of like giving something back to your roots and everything.

Anyway just because you need to credit FPSC doesn't mean you need a full screen high resolution FPSC logo popping up all over your game. How many times do you stop and read the credits after completing a game?

We should be proud of the engine and seeing it associated with better quality games can only be a good thing.

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Bugsy
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Posted: 10th Aug 2010 20:02
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I always watch the whole credits after beating a game.

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charger bandit
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Posted: 10th Aug 2010 20:18
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Just say it has been made in DBPro which basically,it has been.


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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 10th Aug 2010 20:41
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That would be a perfect alternative if the current license (if it hasn't changed like I'd assumed) didn't specify an exact line of text (I'm on Linux without my manual to quote from, sorry ) that needs to be placed in your credit. In theory, we shouldn't need to do this anymore, but I wanted to make sure, you know?

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Monkey Mja
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Posted: 10th Aug 2010 20:54
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Quote: "Though it isn't right, it's the way it is. My team and I have been guests at a couple of gaming conventions for Physix and the project was even slated for publishing at one point (and we're working out some future deals with some other companies) and no matter how "good" it looks or how fun it is, whenever anyone finds out that it's in FPSC, I always get a condescending "Ah, I see... it's made in FPS Creator... Oh, that's nice". And though I feel that people need to know that games made in FPSC can have a lot of effort put into them and be just as fun/beautiful as any given indie game, FPSC is almost always seen as either inferior or a "make-the-game-for-me" button. I lobbied for the name to be changed to something more professional, but apparently Lee thought it was fine the way it was. I love FPSC, but in the long run, until people see it as a legitimate engine (which won't happen in the life of Physix), having the name on your projects is just bad business."


Perfect post.

- Monkey
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Nbt
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Posted: 11th Aug 2010 00:24
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That is a little chicken and the egg really added to the conceited outlook of the geek factor to be honest lol.

I'm sure many of the geek gang laughed at Worms because it was written in Blitz Basic
It's like being at school laughing at the kid who's mum could not afford top brand trainers (sport shoes for non brits) with all this let's look down on a games making kit made game. Like the diehard Linux geeks putting down the distro's that do not require a degree in rocket science to install

The moral of the story is, if we do not get off our bums and make something with FPSC to wake the geeks up, we only have ourselves to blame

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anayar
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Posted: 11th Aug 2010 00:45
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Quote: "That is a little chicken and the egg really added to the conceited outlook of the geek factor to be honest lol.

I'm sure many of the geek gang laughed at Worms because it was written in Blitz Basic
It's like being at school laughing at the kid who's mum could not afford top brand trainers (sport shoes for non brits) with all this let's look down on a games making kit made game. Like the diehard Linux geeks putting down the distro's that do not require a degree in rocket science to install

The moral of the story is, if we do not get off our bums and make something with FPSC to wake the geeks up, we only have ourselves to blame "


Well Said... Seriously, I think half the people around these forums are politicians

Cheers,
Anayar


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mAcpo
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Posted: 11th Aug 2010 02:45 Edited at: 11th Aug 2010 02:47
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one thing that has not happened and prevented users from making an epic masterpiece in this engine is the inability to work in teams. its not the fact that we aren't allowed to do team requests on the forum so much as it is peoples inability to keep organized and stay accountable for their job on a project. there is no shortage of talent around here and most people are really really good at one aspect like modeling and average at the other required tasks like scripting.. imagine if a great modeler got together with a great level designer, scripter, texture artist, story writer and lighting specialist... egos kept in check and working together on this ultimate project!

one great indie game with a proud stamp "created in fps-creator"

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 13th Aug 2010 16:12
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It's just sort of weird not knowing. With such a major change to the ToS, you'd think there'd be more info about it

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That Guy John
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Posted: 14th Aug 2010 07:46 Edited at: 14th Aug 2010 07:47
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Answer to the original question. <<Link
I have read no where on he site that states you need to give any credit to FPSC for anyhthing. If anyone find something that states otherwise please post the link.

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 14th Aug 2010 12:53
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It's at the end of the Manual PDF

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Nbt
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Posted: 14th Aug 2010 15:35
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Quote: "It's at the end of the Manual PDF"


That manual was written in the 1920's lol plus it only says to place it in your documentation. To be honest who ever reads a games manual at the best of times and hardly anyone reads the small print regarding copyrights etc

If I ever decide to make a game with FPSC, I will proudly use the logo as a splash screen

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mgarand
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Posted: 14th Aug 2010 23:34
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Quote: "To be honest who ever reads a games manual at the best of times and hardly anyone reads the small print regarding copyrights etc "


Amen brother



Creativity is inventing, experimenting, growing, taking risks, breaking rules, making mistakes, and having fun.
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That Guy John
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Posted: 15th Aug 2010 03:09
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Quote: "Quote: "To be honest who ever reads a games manual at the best of times and hardly anyone reads the small print regarding copyrights etc "

Amen brother"


I suggest you start to care a little more about copyrights, specially if you plan on selling your own games or software.

Anyhow, here it is.

FPS Creator Manual
Page: 95


Quote: "14 Selling Your Games Made in FPS Creator
Under the terms of the End User License Agreement (EULA), you can sell any
games you make with FPS Creator V1.0.
You must ensure that the ODE Physics Licence is abided to. This licence can be
found in the folder Files\Licence\License-bsd.txt
You must also ensure that the copyright of FPS Creator is clearly listed in your
documentation as follows:
This game was created using FPS Creator. Copyright 2005 The Game Creators
Ltd. All Rights Reserved. www.fpscreator.com
"


I highly suggest that the license page on this site get updated.

Either way, just a small mention in documentation is not bad.

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veer
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Posted: 17th Aug 2010 17:02 Edited at: 17th Aug 2010 17:06
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Quote: " "14 Selling Your Games Made in FPS Creator
Under the terms of the End User License Agreement (EULA), you can sell any
games you make with FPS Creator V1.0.
You must ensure that the ODE Physics Licence is abided to. This licence can be
found in the folder Files\Licence\License-bsd.txt
You must also ensure that the copyright of FPS Creator is clearly listed in your
documentation as follows:
This game was created using FPS Creator. Copyright 2005 The Game Creators
Ltd. All Rights Reserved. www.fpscreator.com"



i am confused ...help me out with this
http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_product&id=2001&page=Copyright
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veer
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Posted: 17th Aug 2010 17:15
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Quote: "Though it isn't right, it's the way it is. My team and I have been guests at a couple of gaming conventions for Physix and the project was even slated for publishing at one point (and we're working out some future deals with some other companies) and no matter how "good" it looks or how fun it is, whenever anyone finds out that it's in FPSC, I always get a condescending "Ah, I see... it's made in FPS Creator... Oh, that's nice". And though I feel that people need to know that games made in FPSC can have a lot of effort put into them and be just as fun/beautiful as any given indie game, FPSC is almost always seen as either inferior or a "make-the-game-for-me" button. I lobbied for the name to be changed to something more professional, but apparently Lee thought it was fine the way it was. I love FPSC, but in the long run, until people see it as a legitimate engine (which won't happen in the life of Physix), having the name on your projects is just bad business"


well good to live in a world where people don't know what fpsc is
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That Guy John
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Posted: 17th Aug 2010 20:32
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According to the license shown on the site, there are no restrictions to anything you make with fpsc. However, you cannot use the fpsc engine itself to make another game creating softwre for re-distribution.

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 18th Aug 2010 00:36
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@That Guy John We've got that part covered. As stated above, the "extra" license agreement clause is in the PDF manual. My big concern is if it's obsolete or not due to the new Lesser GNU agreement or whatever. The manual IS referring to v1, after all.

Well at any rate, I'm at least glad it isn't required in my ingame credits

Though, could I (theoretically) make a folder in the system files called "legal" with a document named "legal" and paste it in there? Also, what about games that don't keep documentation?

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veer
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Posted: 18th Aug 2010 11:09
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Quote: "You must also ensure that the copyright of FPS Creator is clearly listed in your
documentation as follows:
This game was created using FPS Creator. Copyright 2005 The Game Creators
Ltd. All Rights Reserved. www.fpscreator.com""


i bet only few people know about and TCG also are not taking it seriouly
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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 18th Aug 2010 17:01
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@veer That may be true, but I don't want to assume anything, you know?

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That Guy John
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Posted: 19th Aug 2010 14:04
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Yeah, it is a bit confusing.
Hence it should be updated clearly on the license page on the site.

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 21st Aug 2010 20:59
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Quote: "Hence it should be updated clearly on the license page on the site."


This will only happen if Lee sees this thread and unfortunately, customer service doesn't seem to be capable of too much either. Hmmm...

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 14th Sep 2010 04:39
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BUMP! Any news?

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Richar97
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Posted: 14th Sep 2010 15:11
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Instead of saying it's been made in FPS Creator make sure it says it's been made in FPSC and no one (who has heard of it) will never know what it is and everything will be fine.

Thanks,
Richard
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Richar97
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Posted: 14th Sep 2010 15:13
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Also if you used someone else's stuff like lotgd's huds then ask for their real name and put it on "Thanks to" part of the credits.

Thanks,
Richard
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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 14th Sep 2010 19:13
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Firstly, if I still have to add anything, then I need to add what's stated above (I don't feel the need to reiterate it yet again). The question still remains whether or not the clause in the manual is still being upheld or not.

Secondly, I already have everyone's real names and I don't just add them to special thanks, I list them like I do members of my team... it makes the credits longer

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