Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / Perfecting the Jedi Craft

Author
Message
Shadow Robert
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 26th Sep 2003 17:20
put pretty simply, i decided sometime last night whilst playing Jedi Academy that I want to make a Jedi Knight game.

Although i'm not knocking the Jedi series, experience with Raven Software tells me that the SDK they release isn't going to be exactly fully featured.
Quite frankly I don't want to mess around hacking skeleton formats and so-called implimented features.

I'm undecided on actually building an engine from scratch, or modifying a current engine ... i'm leaning towards making this as a mod for Half-Life2.
simply because its features are very impressive and has everything sitting right there that will be needed, not to mention from a graphics point of veiw can truely make something impressively gorgeous.

All I would like to know is a) who wants to help? and b) who has suggestions for it?
the HL2 SDK is released later today, so will take a look at it and decide more on if HL2 will be one of the best enignes for this, i've been reading up on steam and it would allow one feature suchas adding an RPG and Ranking system to give an incentive to players not to come online just to uselessly frag and be fragged but to actually build up thier skill to get good rankings - if not then i know my way around DirectX9 and C++ ... i'm sure alot of the coders on here are also familar with OpenGL and would love to help out on something like this.

i've already got the Episode2 models i've been making for Jedi Academy - so perhaps it could be based within the Episode2 timeframe? but i'm completely open to suggestions about that.

------------------------------

broken down i'm not sure what language will be used, if we'll use a game to mod or create a brand new engine ... everything will be decided once i can get together the team and right now i know of a few class mod developers that will see this as a very interesting challenge.

now i know that alot of you here dont' have the
a) skill, b) time, c) want to help with a project like this... and to be perfectly honest i wouldn't ask that from many people here anyways because too many of you have been unreliable with short attention spans.

what i'm asking for really is suggestions of what you'd want to see in such a game ... the focus is going to be mostly on the multiplayer aspect and on the skill involved in being a jedi in combat - far more skill than simple button tapping or shooting a long range attack.

------------------------

don't think this means i've dropped my current projects or anything like that, as this is not likely to start any ACTUAL work for atleast a month i'd reckon whilst everything is prepared.
not to mention the fact that if we do choose HL2 modding as the option we'll be waiting a tad to get a game to mod with, unless the SDK comes with a working text environment/demo (which would be useful!)

Wiggett
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st May 2003
Location: Australia
Posted: 26th Sep 2003 17:39
if you want raven you'r welcome to work on the mmog dark phantasy (tentative title). it will feature a jedi system, where users can learn jedi skills to add to their character, so just as a fun thing to do you can work on it with us. the reason i say learn it is cause i don't think starting with it will be good cause i can forsee it beign a pretty powerful feature in this game, so it should onlybe given to users that pass training by a gm. anyway more discussion on that later. but good luck with making a jedi knight game, i cant wait to get my hands on jedi academy,, i played the demo and i love the twin sabers.

Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 26th Sep 2003 17:50
Well, the thing that springs to mind is that there's soooooo many Jedi games already - so why not lose the FPS angle altogether and go for a JK2 lightsabre style viewpoint. I'd happily welcome a Jedi game without guns at all! - I can't stand the thought of Jedi's using guns, it just detracts from everyones fun when some newbie starts blasting into a strategic and skillful sabre battle. I only ever play JK2 with sabres only.

Perhaps you could emphasise the use of the sabre as the primary weapon, make lots of moves for it, make it a real skill to use the sabre - perhaps even awarding skill levels - but in a human sense. For example, if you have a server running the game, and sorta moderators that are really good at it, they can be masters and award skill levels, you get taken aside and dual with a masters then they decide if you go up a skill level. That'd be cool - it'd make it much more of a community, especially if you get good moderators who'll take it seriously.

The other gameplay element I'd love to see is propper game mechanics. Like make it possible to disable doors, so you could lure someone into a room then lock the door - at least temporarily. Duke Nukem had cool tricks and traps about 10 years ago, hardly ever see that these days.

I reckon designers need to get back to basics when deciding on gameplay elements, send them to primary schools to watch the kids and how they interact and play - that's what most people are like when they play games. We wanna act like soldiers, or jedi's - we want our imaginary light sabres to make that cool noise we could never get right as kids. Nowadays I'm getting more and more disinterested in single player games - I only ever play multiplayer games on the X-Box, apart from the occasional half-hour bout on the PC. Wolfenstein on the X-Box with Live looks fun and is apparantly very fun (never played it on Live) - because it has nice interactivity and team play features, character roles, stuff like that.

I'd like to see a lot more ways to die than usual too, like a Jedi might drop something heavy on your head, It'd be cool if you had limb orientated animations - so the death animation changes depending on where you got hit - ragdolls are good for when you fall out a window, but for normal deaths they just look daft.


Van-B

My cats breath smells of cat food.
Shadow Robert
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 26th Sep 2003 18:27
yeah Van thats kinda exactly what myself and Mars wanna go for ... more technical and definately more Jedi orientated gameplay.

some very cool suggestions thanks

Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 26th Sep 2003 19:40
Rune was great with its melle fighting. You could throw your weapons, but otherwise there was virtually no ranged combat. I enjoyed its multiplayer more than any other FPS game. Heavy saber combat with low emphasis on ranged attacks and weapons would be very fun. Of course, there are always push/pull/lighting force powers...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball
Read It: http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif
Learn It: http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif
AlecM
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Concord, MA
Posted: 26th Sep 2003 22:18
if you have blaster than you cant block shots with your sabre. The guns arent very usefull but are still cool.

Goto http://www.shellshockede.com
Shadow Robert
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 26th Sep 2003 22:46
lol play JO or JA Froggerman, blocking isn't perfect unless your a jedi knight even then some weapons hurt regardless.

i'll post something i've just posted else where, give you some idea of what my mind is cooking up
i know its a long read, but it really does express the direction that i'd like to take and no doubt more seasoned JO/JA players would like to see too.

Quote: "
i know that Lucas have a tendancy of shutting projects down, and quite frankly the most they can actually do is tell us to stop development because of using star wars stuff.
if that happens then everything star wars will be stripped and remade to be something else (just like Bid for Power did when Funimation shut them down)

the only people who really loose out when something like that happens are the fans who want to see star wars...

This isn't quite your run of the mill Star Wars game though - i don't want any weaponry in the game other than the lightsabers, probably make customised types of lightsaber and see all strange and wonderful designs ... but the first order of business is NO GUN or EXPLOSIVES.
For people who want experiences like that then really there is already enough games like that.
It's also not about making some online RPG like Lineage2 with fantastically huge worlds to explore and chat with your buddies...

i have one sole aim here, turn the saber combat into something far closer to Oni ... far more technical moves, far more control over your movements of the limbs, setting up combinations moves, localised damage which would affect your gameplay.
Just make it intro really a jedi saber battle similar to the cinematic ones allows...

and formost importantly, CUSTOM characters and moves.
something that drives me insane in JO and JA is that you can customise everything except your moves. And there is no room to create new moves.
add to this the physics engine in JA is pretty weak, you kick a group of people and only one character falls - in HL2 you do the same thing and all of them fall like skittles.

another thing i would want to add that HL2 would enable is the jedi abilities to grab things from the level, like say a brick. It could be easily scripted similar to Black&Whites style of pickup and drop and you could throw things...

the emphasis is to be totally on the jedi saber battling - nothing to do with really any storyline, any dominance over another team or getting up as many kills as possible never worring about your own deaths. The ranking and rpg element would be more of a way of determining what level of jedi you are, rather than trying just to become some extremely powerful jedi with the most kills you would do it through making sure you were killed as little as possible ... use the ranking & rpg element more as an incentive to try to become more skilled rather than hack'n'hope for the best tactics rather than any serious RPG stuff.
All the time the goal is purely to make the jedi battling just EPIC in its proportions - something you can't really do in the JA engine is stuff like if someone is on a platform using force push to hit a button - you can in single player but not multiplayer.
Another thing is the physics, in JA you can pull and push people into things and such - however in HL2 the physics would allow you to throw a bookcase against someone and crush them.

something else that really i'd want to do is actually do away with health ... this is about skill, and with HL2's physics enigne is it very possible to simulate injuries to the player by using subtle animations then using the engines Kinetics to blend the animation realistically with another skeletal animation.
somthing in JA even if i had access to the skeletal format would have to be precalculated first for each contingency.

that way if someone slices you right through in a fatal collision box/cylinder then you'll die - otherwise you can have a mate patch you up ... of course they wouldn't be able to replace sliced off limbs but still broken limbs from falls would add to the touch - make people think about thier environment more.

as you can tell i'm not interested in making some carbon copy weak mod just to do exactly what the original game does but in SW style.
this is something that is going to require alot of skilled people to accomplish effectively - and refineing the ideas that have already been expressed and adding something that the communities that its going to be around is essential.

----------------

simply put you can either make a suggestion, or its best to just not post - because this is going to be done one way or another.

i'd prefer it with the star wars theme because everyone knows it, and i won't have to spend sleepless nights trying to think up all of the little details there is a HUGE library of details already out there - that people know off by heart.
not to mention mods are popular before their released because they're attached to something, without it - its hard getting up some sort of a fanbase to work from who have set ideas on the direction they'd like to see in the game until its actually finished by which time quite frankly i wouldn't want to change anything.

------------------
"


i swear i should be employed somewhere to just design games all day, cause it what i excel at - making the ideas with some rough idea howto accomplish it
prefer to leave the technicals of getting it done to programmers.

Mattman
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jun 2003
Location: East Lansing
Posted: 27th Sep 2003 00:32
lol

I would like to see a lightsaber game myself also.

Got a knack for finding secrets??? Jingot Racing --- A new brand of Racing --- Only from Nightwatch Studios
"hey, it's tomorrow" --- Hamish
Dave J
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 27th Sep 2003 03:28
Quote: "Rune was great with its melle fighting."


Agreed. Even now I pull out the old Rune CD once in a while to give it another play-through because currently there isn't a modern-day version of a game just like it.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Wiggett
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st May 2003
Location: Australia
Posted: 27th Sep 2003 13:13
yeah rune was awesome for melee, especially hacking off arms then growing them back with viking ale but nothing pissed me off more than some douche bag coming into an awesome saber fight in jk2 with one of the imperial bombing guns, that you cant block and then blowing you off a skywalk. or worse than that, grip whores. you'd be havng a nice battle of skills then someone would grip you and throw you off the edge. very very poor form. but yeah i would liek to see a rune style game with jedi's in it. you could even mod rune and make jedi characters in it if you wanted to test out a base system for your game. infact if i knew how to mod properly i'd jump right on that

Dave J
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 27th Sep 2003 13:18
Nah, Rune's too old. Wouldn't be up to the standards I think Raven's looking for.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Wiggett
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st May 2003
Location: Australia
Posted: 27th Sep 2003 13:20
i dunno, the physics is all there, im pretty sure that swords could hit each other in that game, if not sort out some routine with the shield to only use a sword but have it act as a shield in some instances maybe.

Dave J
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 27th Sep 2003 13:33
I mean graphically.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Wiggett
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st May 2003
Location: Australia
Posted: 27th Sep 2003 14:32
oh yeah graphically its outdated but since when did graphics make a game.

Shadow Robert
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 27th Sep 2003 15:27
i remember playing rune about 2years ago, can't say i was particularly impressed with it - either graphically nor gameplay wise.

don't get me wrong it was a very fun and enjoyable game for what it was, but against Jedi Academy really it doesn't seem all that different. But then i never played it multiplayer and sometime games do take on a difference MP light.

-- -- --

that aside this project isn't even being considered for a Jedi Academy mod, on the simple reason that the engine is far too old to handle what we need it to do.
we really need a game with a true Physics engine to achieve all the little neuances of being a jedi and the combat

the choice is still up in the air if to go with Unreal Tournament 2004, Half-Life2 or Make our own engine ... personally I want HL2 simply because I know howto mod HL and the HL2 SDK is suppose to be very similar in setup, so HL Developers don't have a headache converting.

This all said, i've still got to get approval for this from Lucas. Nice to have all the ideas but we all know how Lucas can be about it ... right now my thoughts are just as much on making a new little universe and such to base the mod on.
(never hurts to have a backup plan eh )

i think i'll see if there is a demo of Rune online

Dave J
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 27th Sep 2003 17:48
Quote: "we really need a game with a true Physics engine to achieve all the little neuances of being a jedi and the combat "


Totally agree with you. In most of the fights in the SW movies they would be interacting with their enviroment a lot, for instance, they'd often use the force to throw an object at an opponent. It'd be great to see a Jedi game with physics that fully allowed for that.

Oh, and I wouldn't get my hopes up about Lucas Arts though because George Lucas is a real tight ass. I guess it's easy to understand though, if you have such a broad and detailed view of a universe like Star Wars then you don't want just anybody meddling with it. Then again, he did allow the hundreds of books that have been written.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-23 23:06:04
Your offset time is: 2024-11-23 23:06:04