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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / My DBpro disk is scratched!!

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DEANO
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 05:06
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I left the disk out and someone in my family used it as a mousepad. Dips_its!, but anyways the editor is asking for the disk for me to continue. I've been away for a while and want to know is there anyway around this. Or can anyone give me any suggestions on what to do.


Thanks Deano

"When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more than my talent for absorbing positive knowledge.”
-ALBERT EINSTEIN
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BHoltzman
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 05:28
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And this is the kind of nonsense I wanted to avoid by complaining about the cd rom protection scheme. Now you can't use the program you payed to use. Maybe you can send your original in to TGC and get a new cd shipped out to you?

I bought mine from Guy S. who's site is no longer functional. If I start using DBPro and my cd becomes defunct, then do I have to pay for another copy of DBPro? Or will there be some exchange program that I can use to be able to continue working?

Good Luck Deano,

Ben
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 05:37
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Deano - send it back to us for a free replacement. Address is on the main TGC site under "company info" on the menu.

Quote: "And this is the kind of nonsense I wanted to avoid by complaining about the cd rom protection scheme."


My copy of Unreal Tournament 2003 requires the play-disc to be inserted for use. If that got scratched beyond repair, the difference is what exactly between what we're doing at what Atari/Epic are doing? At least DBPro only requires the CD every 500 compilations. Unreal requires it every single time you play it.

Cheers,

Rich

The sky above the port was the colour of television, tuned to a dead channel.
Your brain's just like any other appliance: it works better if you plug it in...
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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 05:47
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Agreed. 500 compiles is completely reasonable.

By the way... removing the _, isn't that dip... sits?

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball
Read It: http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif
Learn It: http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif
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DEANO
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 06:11
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thanks for the reply, I will return it



and "By the way", mouse ,"_" is in place of an "h".


Thanks all Deano.

"When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more than my talent for absorbing positive knowledge.”
-ALBERT EINSTEIN
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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 06:32
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Good point. My dumb mistake... I'm used to the missing letter occuring at a different place in the world

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball
Read It: http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif
Learn It: http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif
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BHoltzman
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 08:14
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The difference is that tools and applications are often used for people's livelyhoods. While games are seldomly if ever used for livelyhood.

Granted 500 compiles is a concession that was extended to the DBPro userbase. However (contrived example), if Deano was trying to meet a deadline for a contracted project then he may not be able to meet the deadline while he waits for the CD to go across the Atlantic, be processed by TGC and then come back over the Atlantic and finally be inserted into his drive.

I don't complain about many things. But this is something that I feel justified complaining about. I'm still opposed to this protection scheme. So, I'll chime in and voice my discontent at times.

It would be much better to use a protection scheme like the people down at Pixologic are with their zbrush application, or Conitec with their 3dGS, or Right Hemisphere with their Deep Paint - Deep Exploration, or E-On Software with their Vue E'spirit. These companies are financially sound and their choice of protection schemes are not preventing their legitimate customers from using their products.

Don't take this as BDPro bashing, it's not intended to be bashing. It's intended to put the idea in front of TGC that there are good reasons for using a different set of protection schemes. Maybe someday they'll make the switch?
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 14:36
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If they didn't all require you to be online in order to validate the protection, it might be acceptable. We cannot assume that with our userbase which leaves us with one mechanism only - CD protection. We also cannot use serial numbers as each regional publisher will handle things differently. Nothing is ever black and white. I'd be a bit dubious about those using it for their "livelihood" as well! If it was truly that life shatteringly important to them, there is the dongle. Failing that CloneCD can back-up the CD adaquately.

Cheers,

Rich

The sky above the port was the colour of television, tuned to a dead channel.
Your brain's just like any other appliance: it works better if you plug it in...
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BatVink
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 15:24
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Quote: "The difference is that tools and applications are often used for people's livelyhoods"


If it's that important, you look after it Or as Rich suggests, you buy a dongle, as it's an investment rather than a nice-to-have.

If you're a photographer, you put a lens cap on your lens to protect it. You can't blame Canon if you leave it lying around and someone uses it as a football.

BatVink (formerly StevieVee)
http://facepaint.me.uk/catalog/default.php
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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 17:21
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If it's that important to you-

-Look after it
-Keep a backup copy if you're not careful with your disks, it's a very cheap development tool
-Buy the dongle, it's even cheaper than a backup copy

Originally on DBDN (I don't think this is sensitive material...) the team was sending around copy protection ideas and working on various schemes. An idea that was considered was requiring the CD every compile. I was very strongly against that; I'm sure it wouldn't have happened if I hadn't been so anyways, but I did speak up about it. The team decided on 100. That was good. 100 made sense. That's twice a month for the average user-- not unsensible at all. Now it's every 500 compiles. More than reasonable! When will the complaints stop?

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball
Read It: http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif
Learn It: http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif
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heartbone
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 20:52
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Every 500 is very good. A minor nuisance it doesn't get in the way.
I need to find out more about this Clone CD.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 22:01
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just to let everyone know there are cracks readily available for any cd protection scheme out there. (Not that I endorse their use, of course)


-RUST-
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 22:25
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There are. Another very nice option is use Alcohol (I think any % version will do, I have Alcohol 120%) to make a virtual image of the CD on your hard drive. Works perfectly.

Cheers,

Rich

The sky above the port was the colour of television, tuned to a dead channel.
Your brain's just like any other appliance: it works better if you plug it in...
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Shock
AGK Developer
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 22:25 Edited at: 30th Sep 2003 22:26
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i'm all in favour of the cd protection scheme, most definately

but, if they did want to make it alot better, it would be integrated into the IDE not the compiler. every 100 openings of the ide, asks for the disc. i say this because sometimes when your on a major breakthrough in your program (zapping those biiigg bugs), and then it asks for the cd, for me by the time ive found the cd iv'e actually forgot what i was doing.

then again, i should just shut up and do the easier thing of keeping my dbpro disc in my cd organizer near my desk

all this said though, im totally fine with the current scheme, and would be fine with it in the next version of db, which i think should be called dbp++ but that's a totally different matter...


TMB - under construction
Sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken.
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BHoltzman
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 23:30
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There are alternative methods of setting up the protection schemes from some of the companies that I've mentioned. You can set up a phone number for people to call and exchange relevant information for the copy protection.

Also, Conitec uses a personalized key disk that can be copied to the hard drive. The key disk is only used to get the key onto the hard drive. And the key identifies the user exactly. The key disk can be mailed to the user or sent through email. They offered both options when I first purchaed their product, and later when I upgraded from them a second time.

Pixologic sends a personalized key file through e-mail. However, there is no reason they have to only use e-mail. They could easily ship it through regular mail, for the users who don't have internet access.

Right Hemisphere uses a different set of protection schemes for their line of products. Deep Exploration uses a user name and password generation system that is assigned to you through the internet and is based off of a unique serial number and maybe other info about the computer DE is installed on? This can probably be done through mail, fax, telephone. Deep Paint 3d and Deep UV both use the same system of assigning a unique serial number for each installation. DP and DUV do not use the internet at all.

Thanks for the info about bypassing the security of the cd. I did consider buying the Alcohol program mentioned earlier. But it just seems wrong to have to bypass a program's protection scheme to use it as a ligitimate user.

Anyhow, you get the idea. Things can be done differently. In a way that doesn't hurt TGC or their userbase. I'm hopping that TGC will make the change. I'll buy more products from them in the future if they do. If not, then I'll just be stuck with a compiler that I bought and won't use.

I do want to say, thanks for opening this dialog with me. At least I know someone is listening.

From,

Ben

P.S. I find it interesting that as a member of the DBPro development team you are uncertain about the outcome of people using your product as a means for their livelihood. What are your concerns about this product which make it unsuitable?

Thanks for the honesty!
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BHoltzman
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 23:34
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Oopps.. And yes you're right, I do keep overlooking the dongle. But thats because I already have to use a dongle for XSI and I don't have room for dongle after dongle on the back of my laptop.

From,

Ben
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bruceatk
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 02:52 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2003 02:52
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I believe that it's the users responsibility to protect themselves. Make sure that you keep your CD's organized and backed up. I've had more than one vendor go out of business or move on to something else, leaving me in a position where it's impossible to replace a CD.

I backup all of mine that I care about and keep them somewhere else. It's a very small investment to purchase the tools that allow you to do that.

Bruce
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CloseToPerfect
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 02:56
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I learn after I had kid, that all cd need to be copied, and then only use the copies not the originals. young kid can break something unbreakable.

CTP
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DrakeX
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 04:02 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2003 04:03
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there is a way to disable the CD check, which was actually posted by rick, but i wonder if it's legal. as if tricking people into buying a $50 dongle when you can fix it in 3 seconds is legal seems like a way to milk more money from customers if you ask me.

stop looking at me!
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 04:31
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There WAS a way which Lee patched around in U4.1 I believe. It's no "trick", the protection is there, if you want the dongle, buy it. If you don't, swap the CD every 500 compiles. Nuff said. This isn't a bloody episode of the X-Files people.

Cheers,

Rich

The sky above the port was the colour of television, tuned to a dead channel.
Your brain's just like any other appliance: it works better if you plug it in...
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CloseToPerfect
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Posted: 4th Oct 2003 02:44
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fixed? wink wink

CTP
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Terabyte
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Posted: 4th Oct 2003 04:55 Edited at: 4th Oct 2003 04:56
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hmm... why buy the dongle... why not just buy a cheap cd rom drive and leave the cd to rot in it .

But i think after a while the cd would start spining a web

The following threads and their accompanying sound tracks are protected by copyright and any broadcast public diffusion, copying and edditing are etc... etc.. you may not complain about my Typo's
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 4th Oct 2003 12:11
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Yeah.. that's "yet another" solution Terabyte. Quite an extreme one and a waste of an IDE channel, but hey it'd work.

The sky above the port was the colour of television, tuned to a dead channel.
Your brain's just like any other appliance: it works better if you plug it in...
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Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 4th Oct 2003 13:20
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Hey Richard Davey, I have UT2k3, and it never asks me for the disc. You running the latest patches? Cause they might have put a no-cd thing in a new patch like they did with the original UT.
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Robin
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Posted: 4th Oct 2003 16:39
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yes i think there is a no-cd patch for ut2003

http://www.thegameszone.tk
[email protected]
-It's not a bug it's a 'feature'
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