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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Is there a REAL normal mapping shader for static entities?

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 03:25
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Notice how in the photo you don't get that glare look in there that makes it look like a character/object is made of plastic like this:



I know that people here are very nice (they were nicer in the old days), and I'm not requesting this. And yes I have already searched, the problem with the other shaders I found was either the reflection look, or the entity had to be dynamic, which ruined the collision.

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raymondlee306
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 03:42
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http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=173169&b=24

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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 03:42
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Quote: "Is there a REAL normal mapping shader for static entities?"


Yep.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=173169&b=24

One for segments, too;

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=170642&b=24


Quote: "Notice how in the photo you don't get that glare look in there that makes it look like a character/object is made of plastic "


Blame your specular map for that.

Kravenwolf

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 04:10 Edited at: 27th Sep 2010 04:14
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Both of those are good, but they still have reflection, to get an idea of what I'm looking for here is a photo of it in a game:



Those two above don't just work with light mapping, they depend on it and for you to move around to see the effect.

Edit:

The best example of what I am looking for:



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Brunopark09
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 05:38
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Quote: "Bond1 is the man. "


Bond1 rulezzzz

SCI FI MEDIA IS NEVER ENOUGH!
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DJ Almix
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 06:44
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Quote: "Quote: "Bond1 is the man. "

Bond1 rulezzzz"


Quote: "Joined: Wed Jul 7th 2010"


Thanks for your help

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bond1
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 07:10 Edited at: 27th Sep 2010 07:36
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If you want zero reflection/specular, you just set your spec map to completely black. You absolutely have full control over how shiny (or not) your model looks. Keep in mind that almost every surface on the planet has SOME specularity (see my specmap tutorial on YouTube for creating some cool real-world effects).

The shader does, however, assume the light source is coming from the player position. The pictures you posted the light source is coming from an oblique angle. You can hard code the light source on a per-entity basis if you know some HLSL to get some more realistic results that match your in-game lights. I do this for important items where I want dramatic lighting that perfectly matches the placement of my in-game lights. Note the XYZ grid position of your lightsource and use those values in the shader for the "LightSource" variable.



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DJ Almix
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 08:18 Edited at: 27th Sep 2010 08:30
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Quote: "If you want zero reflection/specular, you just set your spec map to completely black. You absolutely have full control over how shiny (or not) your model looks. Keep in mind that almost every surface on the planet has SOME specularity (see my specmap tutorial on YouTube for creating some cool real-world effects).

The shader does, however, assume the light source is coming from the player position. The pictures you posted the light source is coming from an oblique angle. You can hard code the light source on a per-entity basis if you know some HLSL to get some more realistic results that match your in-game lights. I do this for important items where I want dramatic lighting that perfectly matches the placement of my in-game lights. Note the XYZ grid position of your lightsource and use those values in the shader for the "LightSource" variable."


I don't know the first thing about programming, I can easily do the spec mapping, but is there any way you could like quickly modify the shader so it's in-game light dependent?

Quote: "Note the XYZ grid position of your lightsource and use those values in the shader for the "LightSource" variable."


I'm confused about this statement...would these mean I would need to create a shader for each light?

Also

is there anyway to change the harshness of the shadows like in the sphere screen shot above?

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bond1
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 08:42 Edited at: 27th Sep 2010 08:46
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Quote: "but is there any way you could like quickly modify the shader so it's in-game light dependent?"


No, light directionality is not passed from FPSC to the shaders for entities that are static. Only light intensity is passed. You would need to hardcode light directionality into the shader. So yes, a new shader would be needed for each lightsource. In reality,this is not practical. Usually just identify the strongest light in a given area, and use it's coordinates in the shader.

Quote: "is there anyway to change the harshness of the shadows like in the sphere screen shot above?"


Yes, just deepen the normal map's intensity. This can be done in Crazybump with a slider. Or in photoshop, make a duplicate layer of the normal map and set it's blending mode to "overlay". This way is not as accurate as Crazybump's, but it still have almost the same effect in-game. Alternatively, if you have Dark Shader, many of my shaders have a UI control for bump intensity.

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 08:47 Edited at: 27th Sep 2010 08:54
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Quote: "Yes, just deepen the normal map's intensity. This can be done in Crazybump with a slider. Or in photoshop, make a duplicate layer of the normal map and set it's blending mode to "overlay". This way is not as accurate as Crazybump's, but it still have almost the same effect in-game."


That didn't really change much, I already tried it and got a distorted look but with the shadows still being the same strength.

Notice how in this image the shadow cares over and stops, like bumps in the ground:



EDIT:

Here's what it looks like with like an ultra-intense normal map

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bond1
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 08:59 Edited at: 27th Sep 2010 09:03
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Could I see your normal map, I have a feeling it has a lot of high-frequency detail, but very little low frequency detail to define the major forms.

EDIT: Also, your diffuse texture has way too many shadows in it to begin with, you want to let the normal map take care of this instead, otherwise you're going to get conflicting lighting.

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 09:02
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Attached

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bond1
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 09:05
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Yep just as I suspected, your normal map has very little depth, what did you use to make it? It has lots of sharp, high frequency detail, but almost no depth over the major forms of the rocks. If you attach your diffuse texture, I can show you a better way...

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 09:06
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Another try...

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 09:10
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Here is one of the textures

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 09:11
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and the other

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bond1
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 09:14 Edited at: 27th Sep 2010 09:15
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Again, this comes down to the quality of the maps you feed into the shader. In this screenshot, you can see plenty of depth in the normal map.




Attach on of your diffuse maps, and I'll show how to make a proper normal map..

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bond1
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 09:16
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Got your diffuse texture, when I get home from work and have my full arsenel of tools, I'll show how to create a nice deep normal map from that tiled texture.

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vortech
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 10:00
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Geez. Is that one from your upcoming object pack?


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seth zer0
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 10:05 Edited at: 27th Sep 2010 10:12
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Quote: "I'll show how to create a nice deep normal map from that tiled texture."


This is going to be nice..

Its called Elite Room and no it come with X10 but I don't know if you can get it with X9 any other way(think bond1 made it that why he has it in X9). Or that one of the add on from model pack 7(which is included in X10).. I bought that pack for x10 to find out it was already added in..

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bond1
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 10:10 Edited at: 27th Sep 2010 10:11
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Quote: "eez. Is that one from your upcoming object pack?"


Haha, no. That's the Elite Room segment from X10 running with my shader in X9...for demonstration purposes.

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vortech
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 10:30
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It's still nice.


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DJ Almix
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 17:34 Edited at: 27th Sep 2010 18:15
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Quote: "Quote: "eez. Is that one from your upcoming object pack?"

Haha, no. That's the Elite Room segment from X10 running with my shader in X9...for demonstration purposes."


Any idea on how to change these to get darker looking shadows?



Edit:

I'm getting to the result I was looking for though

Edit2:

When I apply the entity version of the effect to an entity I still get reflection even with a black _I map:



And my folder



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seth zer0
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 22:57
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What shader are you using, cause if its one of bond1 newer one's then you have one(_I) of your map wrong.

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DarkJames
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 23:20
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Could you post a tutorial for everyone, Bond1?

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seth zer0
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 23:28 Edited at: 27th Sep 2010 23:31
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There is a video tutorial in the same place you download them..
For the static copy your normal map and name it (blah)_I. And segment you might want to watch the tutorial but its basically a copy of your diffuse map and renaming it (blah)_I(the way bond1 explain how to do it is alot better though.). So there is no specular map for anything.

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