Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

3 Dimensional Chat / Updating an old character - crits?

Author
Message
Ortu
DBPro Master
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 2nd Oct 2010 08:57
Link
This is something like the 4th time I've gone back and reworked this character now... learn new things, get better, and you see how many mistakes you had before.

Main focus this time was improving the texture, reducing the poly count, improving the UV layout and baking out a normal map.

I'm happy with the texture, finally got rid of the pesky seams -I think- thanks to finally taking the time to look into Blender's texture paint mode, it makes it so easy!

Poly count has been cut down to 5712 tri (full body) from the original 13400 tri, so I'm pretty happy there too.

I need to finish making any changes to the features before baking out normals/AO, so here we come to the crits.



The particle hair is just a quick setup to give the face a frame for reference, I'm planning to do polygons with alpha when all is done.

area's that concern me are the mouth, jaw, and eyes... the problem is I've worked them so much it's all sort of becoming meaningless to my eyes, like a word repeated over and over, so I need a fresh look at this.

I want her to have a strong jaw without looking masculine, a hard line to walk.

the topology of the facial edge-loops is not great and I would do future models differently, but since I'm not exactly planning to do anything with this I'm just working with what I have, aimed at a static final appearance.


Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Blobby 101
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Jun 2006
Location: England, UK
Posted: 2nd Oct 2010 15:41
Link
looks fine with the hair - the unfinished one creeps me out a bit though, not sure what it is xD

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mazz426
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2008
Location: Edinburgh
Posted: 2nd Oct 2010 15:53
Link
there are several issues, the eyes are too far apart, there should be a gap of one eye between them, the nose is far too small, the lips are unnatuarlly thick, the head isn't tall enough and the ears are far too high, the top of the ear should line up with your eye


zbrush 3D model thread:http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166698&b=3
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
lazerus
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Apr 2008
Location:
Posted: 2nd Oct 2010 16:26
Link
Looks a little like the thing off splice

The jaw line needs softening aswell , far too masculine for the rest of the face


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Master Man Of Justice
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Feb 2008
Location: Between Insanity and Intelligence
Posted: 2nd Oct 2010 18:44
Link
Well, if you had just made that , you could have won the Halloween compo

Just Kiddin.

But it is a little creepy.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ortu
DBPro Master
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 02:27 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2010 03:13
Link
Thanks Mazz, some good crits and I think they helped. Lowered the ears, moved in the eyes, scaled up the nose... mabye a little too much, pulled in the mouth to rematch the eyes, and worked a bit on the cheeks.

@Laz Looking back over it, I realized that the texture had shadowing along the back of the jaw which strengthened its appearance, So I blended that out a bit as well as rounding out the angle some.

small changes make big differences, facial features really are an art of subtlety

So anything else?



edit: finally figured out what bothered me about the eyes, they were slanted and cat-like, so I changed the angle:




Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Dodga
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Dec 2009
Location:
Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 04:18
Link
He just doesnt look right, looks like a plastic surgery victim. Sorry to be harsh, its good modeling just bad anatomy.
Back to top
Profile PM
Eminent
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Jul 2010
Location:
Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 07:08
Link
Looks creepy. Too creepy.


Back to top
Profile PM
Ortu
DBPro Master
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 11:06
Link
need specifics guys, can't fix it if I don't know what to work on. what would make it less creepy?


Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
DevilLiger
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2003
Location: Fresno,CA,USA
Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 11:30
Link
it needs to be more feminime(girly). other than that what program you use?

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Master Man Of Justice
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Feb 2008
Location: Between Insanity and Intelligence
Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 13:24 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2010 13:31
Link
lol sorry ortu, if you cant see why its wrong, you are either inebriated, or dating russian girls (just kidding, stereotypical of me and i know its not really true.)


Eyes look stretched outward.
Eyes look like they both got punched.
the head is too wide.
The jaw is too pronounced.
The cheek part should curve around the head, not be a flat edge.
Is it me or does it look like she has a goatee?
The hair is messed up, it looks like she got in a fight and didnt win.
The eyebrows, sudden curve is unrealistic to me.

The shoulders are WAY too wide and the chest bone that protrudes is a little bit too much.

And the main thing that doesnt sell it is the neck is too wide.


Sorry if this seems harsh, but there are alot of problems.
Good luck

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Quik
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jul 2008
Location: Equestria!
Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 13:33
Link
I say work more on the eyes, the lips look like.. eww
and the eyebrows are way to thin for my own opinion, but thats a matter of opinion.

the eyes and lips, start there.
and with the eyes i men AROUND the eyes.


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
Back to top
Profile PM
Ortu
DBPro Master
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 22:13 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2010 22:21
Link
@Meng I use Blender and photoshop

@MMOJ
eyes: they were wide set, now they are only 1 eye between them, I went back and checked against reference and I guess the eyes themselves are a bit wide. Head is only about 4 eyes across compared to 5 across in ref, I'll pull them in some

head width: I put some render overlays against the ref, should have done that before as a couple of things popped right out The forehead needs to be longer/higher which would pull the width back into proportion.

Jaw: I want her to have a strong jaw, some women have them even if it isn't considered 'ideal' too many characters are mashed into 'ideal' whereas people tip the scale from side to side. I'm going for a strong look, not a pretty dainty little thing. The chin does still seem sharp to me, so I'll try rounding that more.

also the light is above her and coming down, putting strong shadow on the jawline, It doesn't look nearly as defined in the veiwport, I'll play around with my render setup.

Hair: is just a quick temporary thing to give the face some framing until I get the texturing done on mesh hair, If you'd rather see her bald I can go back to rendering that way.

Eyebrows: match the reference, as Quik said it's a matter of opinion and many women actually really like the pencil thin arched eyebrow. Check out just about any nail salon or makeup counter

Shoulder width: proportion of shoulder width to face width match the reference (pic below) however putting the two side by side the shoulders are far to muscular leading up to the neck and the neck is much too short and straight. I'll weaken the shoulder, lengthen the neck and give it a more graceful curve, that alone should help the femininity a good deal.

Clavicle: your right, I'll smooth that down.

@Quik the lips have given me trouble from day one, I think ultimately I need to completely redo the topology flow around them. For now the corners are too sharp no? I think the wrinkling may need to be softened some, that should help them not be so puffy and swollen. And I guess I'e got the eyebrow ridge set too high, I'll see what I can do.

thanks guys, it helps!

Here's the overlays. Now keep in mind that I am not trying to recreate this refence's features and appearance, it is just a proportion guide.

[img]null[/img]


Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Master Man Of Justice
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Feb 2008
Location: Between Insanity and Intelligence
Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 22:17 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2010 22:19
Link
ok i like your other fixes, but dude, seriously, no women has a jaw like that. not even Schwarzenegger has a jaw that big.

Only person i see with that kind of chomper is Jay Leno.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ortu
DBPro Master
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 4th Oct 2010 01:15 Edited at: 4th Oct 2010 01:53
Link
Alright, I'd been trying to avoid it, but working around a problem is never better than fixing it, even if you have to redo a bunch of other stuff as a result... I dropped it back down to the first sub division and reworked the topology around the eyes and mouth. changed the proportions as indicated before and here is where it stands now:

At this base level, there is virtually no detailing and lots of babyfat, but hopefully the placement and shape of the major features is better.






Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
DevilLiger
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2003
Location: Fresno,CA,USA
Posted: 4th Oct 2010 01:49 Edited at: 4th Oct 2010 01:50
Link
ahh much better. keep fixing the eyes. it's looking better already. keep it up. i wanna see it when it's done.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Eminent
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Jul 2010
Location:
Posted: 4th Oct 2010 02:07
Link
Ears should be a big bigger and show more.


Back to top
Profile PM
Quik
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jul 2008
Location: Equestria!
Posted: 4th Oct 2010 10:56 Edited at: 4th Oct 2010 10:56
Link
lips are still looking crappy D:
but a huge improvement :3


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
Back to top
Profile PM
Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 4th Oct 2010 14:17
Link
Looks a bit like Minnie Driver to me.

I think the whole problem is that you've used a front reference as a base, really you need a side view as well, otherwise it's impossible to get good proportions unless your a professional artist/sculptor.

I find it's good to get a front view, and side view, and get them on the same reference image, side by side with everything lining up (eyes, nose, and lips on same height etc). Then you use this on the front and side viewports, makes life much easier because it's easy to decode that as a 3D shape in your mind, with just a front view, you really have nothing.

Doesn't really help you with this model, personally I think the poor cow is doomed - you need to start from scratch with a side view and front view as a reference.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ortu
DBPro Master
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 6th Oct 2010 09:39
Link
Quote: "I think the whole problem is that you've used a front reference as a base, really you need a side view as well,"


I do have a side, embarrasingly, I hadn't matched them side by side as you mention which is a big part of the problem. Also when originally building, I didn't want to try to make a duplicate of the reference itself and so changed things as I went whereas I should have gotten the structure correct before trying to customize it.

Small update, yesterday was my anniversary and things have just been busy so I'm only getting in short chunks of time on this: sized up the ears and turned them more to the front, they could use some fiddling with the UVs now but that's minor. Significantly changed the edge loops around the eyes adding a bottom lid instead of the simple socket I had, gives me more flexibility on shaping. Eyelashes are needed still to really pull it together.

Briefly began defining bone and musculature, cheekbone and the jaw still need work for sure. I think the nose may be on too flat a foundation and I'll play around with the underlying shape there.

did minor adjustments to the mouth. It would look better in a closed pose, but since I've already gone back and reworked the loop topology, I may as well keep it relaxed for rigging.






Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Quik
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jul 2008
Location: Equestria!
Posted: 6th Oct 2010 12:20
Link
head is too much forward in the second picture, and it makes her look like..
well..
stone-age-woman.
and her neck is imo a bit too long.


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
Back to top
Profile PM
Ortu
DBPro Master
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 7th Oct 2010 08:37
Link
Shortened the neck some, I think I'll wait until rigging and use the armature to correct the posture.

Didn't have a lot of time tonight, mostly just added eyelashes. Need to work with the transparency/shadow settings on the materials more but the eyes are taking shape.




Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ortu
DBPro Master
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 9th Oct 2010 20:55 Edited at: 9th Oct 2010 21:03
Link
Ok folks, I finally have some semi-decent looking hair... I hope. It could be improved a lot, but I'll definitely need quite a bit more practice before I can do so. hair is hard especially breaking up the tips. A tablet is almost a must have.

Anyways I went with kind of a modified chin-length bob, so let me know what you think of the hair and of the head as a whole. She's looking a lot better from where I started, you guys have been a great help, thanks!



edit: a bit more contrast with the background




Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Neodelito
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Jul 2005
Location:
Posted: 10th Oct 2010 01:54
Link
haaa.. kill him.. is a castor.. joke. don-t be mad.

serious, you have a uncanny valley virus, like all us.
all know a human face,
here you have one idea..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF_NFmtw89g&NR=1&feature=fvwp



Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ortu
DBPro Master
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 10th Oct 2010 03:04
Link
interesting link Neo


Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Hassan
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th May 2009
Location: <script> alert(1); </script>
Posted: 11th Oct 2010 15:10 Edited at: 11th Oct 2010 15:16
Link
it's getting much better! but still a problem with the mouth, or maybe too big teeth? i dunno , and the ears look flat? i think it needs to be closer to the head, but i guess the hair will cover it so no worries, the rest looks great

[url][/url]
Nothing's impossible, it's just a matter of time...
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Ortu
DBPro Master
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 12th Oct 2010 02:43
Link
thanks!

yeah the ears are flat right now, I havn't done any re-detailing since dropping the subdivision down and reworking the face. I'll take a look at the teeth, after changing the head proportions, they are probably out of scale.


Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-24 10:36:00
Your offset time is: 2024-11-24 10:36:00