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Geek Culture / Which 1 would you prefer to use Cinema 4D or 3D Studio Max (even if you dont have either)

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Andrew
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Posted: 1st Oct 2003 23:42
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So which 1 is better?
Cinema 4D
3DS MAx - this seems to do the same thing but expensive -true?

My game will make sure Final Fantasy will never be forgotten.
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Yian
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Posted: 1st Oct 2003 23:51
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i think 3ds max 6 is more advanced

-john D.
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Andrew
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Posted: 1st Oct 2003 23:54
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Really???
How come??

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2003 00:01
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Maya

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Yian
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2003 00:02
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I'm not sure but i think so :\\

-john D.
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Salsa
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 00:19
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Both quite good i would say Andrew, but to be honist with ya, i would actually say that i would buy lightwave because it has everything you would ever dream off - every game console has to use this....
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MikeS
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 01:20
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wings3d

@Geri
This is your best choice. Trust me, it's free,easy, and introduces you too 3D.

Oops, I mean Andrew lol

A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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John H
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 02:34
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ROFLMAO

Current Project: Eternal Destiny
We need a texture artist!
If your interested email me - Johnrocs@aol.com
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MikeS
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 02:36
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A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 13:02
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Cinema3D 7 is good, but wont load .X files (and it's .X conversion system is poor). However they may have fixed this in V8.


Avatar & Logo by Indi. Come to the UK DBPro Convention in Chichester
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Van B
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 13:11
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Unfortunately you have more to consider, because it's for a DX engine you need to somehow get animation, texturing, and modelling in one package that will work well with DBPro. That's why I'd say 3DS-Max, although I have it and hate it, I find it invaluable all at the same time.


Van-B

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kingius
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 14:32
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3DS Max is a real swiss army knife of an application, you can do anything with it and it has a massive array of plugins. Cinema 4D is a much smaller program in scope but is much more affordable. Also, Cinema 4D has a very nice workflow. Its a joy to use for modelling and I think is light years in front of Max in that regard.

I use both programs. I model in C4D and then use Max for the texturing and tweaking (such as taking polygons out of models with multires).
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 15:17
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Quote: "3DS Max is a real swiss army knife of an application, you can do anything with it"


and you can end up stabbing yourself 20-odd times looking for a tool similar to what you actually need, just to give up and use something to hack away and find out a week later there is a free plugin piece that does what you wanted.

honestly hate max ... but if you know it then it can be good - problem is although its simple to get into its extreme to master.

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kingius
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 15:59
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I agree, its an expert level package aimed at professionals with a good technical 3D knowledge. gMax (which is FREE!) is a safer bet for many of the people on this board if they choose Max over Cinema 4D.
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Van B
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 16:14
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It's amazing how many people suggest Gmax even though it is practically useless for DBPro - firstly it's a nightmare to get an import/export plugin that works well, secondly it's illegal to use Gmax for anything but Freeware. Put simply, Discreet don't want you to use Gmax for anything but supported games, and the supported games all have their own plugins.

If I had to choose a free modeller - it would'nt be Gmax, probably Wings3D or JTEdit.


Van-B

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 18:10
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Quote: "firstly it's a nightmare to get an import/export plugin that works well,"


MD3 exports fine, works identically to the Max4/5 Pop'n'Fresh r6 Exporter (probably because it IS the same exporter)
i've never had a problem with it

Quote: "secondly it's illegal to use Gmax for anything but Freeware"

on the gmax forums (hosted by discreet) there was a response from one of the actual guys who was involved in marketing/programming gmax that stated that no where in the EULA did it say you couldn't use Gmax commercially

acturus posted the link last time, i can't find it here or on gmax... so perhaps he'll show it again
and Chris Cookson has alot of importer/exporters using the scripting features - not sure what is where though, his site is down again aparently. (he Sooo must get DirectDebit)

JTEdit is good, i'm not a fan of Wings3D tbh - its got good tools but not really my thing, the interface is far to bare with far too many shortcut links ... and i hate that when learning a program.

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Van B
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 19:02
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Hehe, you know I only have eyes for Rhino until VANmesh is finished - I have serious blocks when it comes to learning 3D software, I've used so many variants and am rarely comfortable. Rhino kicks ass and no mistake.

I still don't trust Gmax or Discreet, I don't think they'd be too happy if someone made a lot of cash from a game using Gmax created models, I reckon they'd have something to say about that.


Van-B

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kingius
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 20:12
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Yes, they might say "Great work with gMax, but you really should consider 3ds Max, how would you like to upgrade for this reduced price and create more great games?"
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Andrew
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 20:47
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*starts to laugh*

Ok if you are new and are looking for a software then goto http://pub96.ezboard.com/f3darkfrm10.showMessage?topicID=16.topic

Someone asked the question Which 3D software would be best for me? Lightwave,max,etc

And to be totally honest, lightwave rocks because it does the same thing as 3d max 6, oh but also did i say that it will let you make the characters move, like a movie, yes movie, so well this is great for my game like final fantasy 10.
Also i would like to point out that you can design 3D worlds, i guess i dont need to use DBP for all the matrix things, only need the postion for the enmies, (still not sure about this) plus the animations are great!!!!

also:
lightwave 7 is just over £1000
3D Studio Max is well over £3000

also
lightwave has many different features as well for your game and does the same as 3D Studio Max, but also does many other things such as movies etc.

3D Studio max basically is for making characters on it's own.

Also let me point this out too.
Why do they charge more for 3d studio max when it does less?
Answer is simple, i asked around and looked around, you see people who do game design do not know about all these softwares, they simply take one of them to make (meaning they dont know the rest and get ripped off)
if you look in a shop near you, look for an item, them go to another place that sells the same thing, it may be less depening on where you are.
Very hard to choose from, all 3d moderling really do the same so "go for the lowest price because it may make no difference"

Someone could have milshape 3d and can design the same as a model in 3ds 6.

Trust me-

Andrew.

Thanks for the help, shall repay you all some how

My game will make sure Final Fantasy will never be forgotten.
Remember me because my game will be in the shops in a year or 2.
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Ian T
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 20:55
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'lightwave has many different features as well for your game and does the same as 3D Studio Max, but also does many other things such as movies etc.'

Blizzard Entertainment, acclaimed throughout gaming culture for their amazing cinematics, designs and renders ALL of their movies in 3d Studio Max.


'Someone could have milshape 3d and can design the same as a model in 3ds 6.'

Not without tons of unneccesary work. Advanced animation and an array of complex tools for altering and designing meshes are not in milkshape. Milkshape also has very primitive and weak texturing abilities, no scene rendering capabilities, etc.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball
Read It: http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 21:21
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yup Mousie is right, Blizard have some of the most breathtakig cutscenes ingame - just download the WoW E3 2002 Trailer, thats the graphics level these guys work to and must be maintained by everyone no matter how long on the rung you are.

What Lightwave8 has, 3D Studio Max 4 had... although yes Lightwave is a nice and powerful package, and certainly alot cheaper.
From my personal POV and many others using it is a true blue nightmare.

You also have to consider Maya and SoftimageXSI, as all of Raven Softwares games since Soldier of Fortune2 have been SoftimageXSI - and they make some wonderful cutscenes and models.
Half-Life2 is another HUGE title made with SoftimageXSI, as well as the previous 2 Resident Evils for the Gamecube.
Maya's claim to fame comes from the truely universally famous Tomb Raider games and just a famous Final Fantasy games...

What can be achieved within a 3D Package by a talented artist nowadays is far far beyond the reach of most people, it has nothing to do with the package being used at all ... it has EVERYTHING to do with how comfortable the artist feels within the given package, and just as important how good they really are.

-- -- --

sorry but at the end of the day the package won't give you skill or talent, tutorials might seem like they help - but quite frankly you just have to look around this forum to see how far tutorials can actually carry you before you peak.

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Andrew
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 23:24
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At the end of the day everyone use's something different depending on what they want.

The END

My game will make sure Final Fantasy will never be forgotten.
Remember me because my game will be in the shops in a year or 2.
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MikeS
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 23:28
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Quote: "Someone could have milshape 3d and can design the same as a model in 3ds 6."


Someone could have milkshape 3d and design the same as a model in lightwave.

Quote: "i asked around and looked around, you see people who do game design do not know about all these softwares, they simply take one of them to make (meaning they dont know the rest and get ripped off)"


lol



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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Andrew
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 23:29
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P.S final fantasy was made in japn - just translated the words and voice in game

My game will make sure Final Fantasy will never be forgotten.
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Andrew
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2003 23:43
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Actually that software you are talking about SoftimageXSI - that is great.

If this is good enough i will get this, sounds great and low cost, this seems to be better than lightwave.

Dont you think?

My game will make sure Final Fantasy will never be forgotten.
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kingius
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Posted: 4th Oct 2003 17:24
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I recommend that you use Cinema 4D, its affordable and a great package. Couple it with Ultimate Unwrap 3D (for $35) and you have a good toolset for creating and texturing models.
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John H
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Posted: 4th Oct 2003 23:38
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Andrew makes me laugh. Hah, game like FF10 haahha.....ahhh good times

Current Project: Eternal Destiny
We need a texture artist!
If your interested email me - Johnrocs@aol.com
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Andrew
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Posted: 4th Oct 2003 23:40 Edited at: 4th Oct 2003 23:41
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Sure

My game will make sure Final Fantasy will never be forgotten.
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Andrew
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Posted: 4th Oct 2003 23:42
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Dont you think i cant make a game like that? i have study the entire book on DBP, i dont understand you.

Very confused?????? but

My game will make sure Final Fantasy will never be forgotten.
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denki
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Posted: 5th Oct 2003 00:33
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"Dont you think i cant make a game like that? i have study the entire book on DBP"

Lmao, no i do not because you are aiming too high... sorry...

[url][/url]
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Salsa
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Posted: 5th Oct 2003 00:39
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Aiming too high - everybody is so funny, they all make little space invaders LL no offence, LOL, but LOL LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Unless Andrew did make this game, he would prove you all wrong, then i think you wish you didn't say that LOLOL.

So funny LOLOL.

(P.S Am i the only female on here thats a coder?)
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denki
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Posted: 5th Oct 2003 00:42
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"So funny LOLOL."

That could be used so easily to describe your post.

Just because you've read a dbp book doesnt mean you're ready to buy an expensive moelling package and make a game worthy of one of the best known game developers in the world...

I'm just saying, even if you make an RPG, keep it more simple, and don't aim so high!

[url][/url]
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Andrew
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Posted: 5th Oct 2003 00:43 Edited at: 5th Oct 2003 00:51
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Sorry but Salsa is right you know, im not coding myself here, most ya people must be new or something, or just cant take the fact that someone else is making a good game.
But....making space invader games is good to start with, start small, well...no comment on this.

I'm not fighting or anything, but i just wanted to let you know what i think at my point of view.

I dont want to go into anything big yet, just want to buy the software now, thats all.
Any hoo...the point is that all i actually want to do is code. But maybe make a good game and sell it, if you see what i mean

My game will make sure Final Fantasy will never be forgotten.
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denki
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Posted: 5th Oct 2003 00:55
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oh yeah, I know what you mean... but starting simple (not as simple as space invaders, more like a simple RPG then) is the best way to go...

" most ya people must be new or something,"

That was insanely ignorant.

[url][/url]
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Andrew
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Posted: 5th Oct 2003 00:58
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I see where you are coming from, but most RPG games are fading away, i prefer sort of like RPG but more like not just a clickand just watch like mojomagic, i mean it was good but naaa not my style

My game will make sure Final Fantasy will never be forgotten.
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MikeS
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Posted: 5th Oct 2003 01:33
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Quote: ""Dont you think i cant make a game like that? i have study the entire book on DBP, i dont understand you.""


How old are you?

Quote: ""My game will make sure Final Fantasy will never be forgotten.
Remember me because my game will be in the shops in a year or 2.""


If you anwsered less than 18 to my above question, then good luck to you.

Quote: ""Actually that software you are talking about SoftimageXSI - that is great.If this is good enough i will get this, sounds great and low cost, this seems to be better than lightwave."."


Low Cost!?!?!? Anyway, can't you make up your mind on which software to use?
Look at Truespace6.6. It's results are great, now you're gonna wanna buy that one. Wait, look at wings3d, it's results are great,
oh man, milkshape's results are great. You're gonna go paranoid if you just base how good a package is by it's screenshots.

Here's my advice, no wait, it's more like an order in your case.
1.)Download the trial version for milkshape, if you like it order the full version for $20.
2.)If you don't like milkshape then download wings3d for FREE, and use that.
3.)If you don't like wings3d, then download Truespace3.2 for FREE, and use that.
4.)If you don't like Truespace3.2 then download anim8or for FREE and use that.

All 3D programs have many things in common.
1.)They're all gonna do 3D
2.)There are many standard functions such as extrude,move,etc.

Quote: ""Someone could have milshape 3d and can design the same as a model in 3ds 6.""


You said it yourself, so why don't you just do it?

Quote: ""3D Studio max basically is for making characters on it's own.""


That would be more like a tool called "Poser"

Quote: ""P.S final fantasy was made in japn - just translated the words and voice in game ""


Thanks for that.

Quote: ""Dont you think i cant make a game like that? i have study the entire book on DBP, i dont understand you""


I have studied the entire book of DBP also, yet I havn't made the next Final Fantasy. According to you, I'm making
boring games like space invaders.

--------------------------------------------
Now you ask why I've lectured you?

If you can't figure that out, then you better go read your DBP book again, and make one more of the million boring space invader games.

A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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Arrow
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Posted: 5th Oct 2003 06:27
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Andrew, you're setting your self up for failure, FFX was a multi-million game designed by a company with over 20 years experance. Somehow do't think you have either the resources nor skill to recreate a Final Fantasy, if you disagree prove me wrong, post something to prove otherwise.

Quote: "(P.S Am i the only female on here thats a coder?) "
Shhh! Every female that points that out leaves do to being harrassed by some of our younger, puberty mad, viewers.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
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Andrew
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Posted: 5th Oct 2003 16:36 Edited at: 5th Oct 2003 16:41
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Yep your all right, when i said you make space invaders, i didn't mean anything like you suck or anything like that.
It takes a lot of pratice, my game that i want to start to create isn't gonna be final fantasy (the next) but it will have most controlls and codes for when i do start to make it.
It will have small things in it, very small things, like position 2 little objects (before i start to design) then if they collide and things, then stuff happens, no cut scenes yet though (haven't got the software)
Anyway you guys, to be honist with ya, i hope you make a game someday, but um how many times a day to you work on your game?
P.S I'm 16 years old.

Also could you just tell me, how do i do the code "glue object to limb" i mean how do i know the limb for that first object?

My game will make sure Final Fantasy will never be forgotten.
Remember me because my game will be in the shops in a year or 2.
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