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3 Dimensional Chat / Genesis ( female lead character)

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wind27382
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Posted: 26th Oct 2010 18:35
Basically i have been working on an 8 minute short film called sentry the final assault. This is basicly the main character with the first stages of her armor. Shes part of a 3 ghost unit that is humanity's only hope of survival. I sill have a lot of work to do but here she is. I have lots of work to do on the textures still. and haven't really started her armor. I'm also rethinking these colors.

you can also check the progress of the actual film here
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr...?f=153&t=928998







wind
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 26th Oct 2010 19:44
Extremely revealing armour suit? Check.
Hyperbolic boobies? Check.

She seems good to go...

Quik
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Posted: 26th Oct 2010 20:04
however she seems a bit small to me, the head is extremely huge


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
wind27382
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Posted: 26th Oct 2010 20:25
you might be right the more I look at it the bigger her head is starting to look. also I had a female friend say she was insulted by the size of those breast. so as of right now I might make her head and breast smaller.

wind
Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 27th Oct 2010 02:27
The female you were talking to must be jealous, because thats only a little bit above average.

vortech
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Posted: 27th Oct 2010 18:13
And head texture should be connected onto otherhead texture.


Check for pure horror.
And Now with real demo.
Quik
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Posted: 27th Oct 2010 18:14
Vortech:

Quote: "I have lots of work to do on the textures still"



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vortech
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Posted: 27th Oct 2010 18:16
I read that, but still. It jost a notice.


Check for pure horror.
And Now with real demo.
wind27382
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Posted: 31st Oct 2010 22:49
some improvements still lots of way to go on this. but took a small break from the aliens to work on this









wind
wind27382
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Posted: 31st Oct 2010 23:35
close up of the face with the added eyelashs. her eyes are still a little dead to me but I'll find a way to fix it.



wind
Quik
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Posted: 1st Nov 2010 02:22
is that a.. mustasche? and her head still seems a bit to big?


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
wind27382
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Posted: 1st Nov 2010 02:48
I think your right about her head. I'll make it smaller. but there is a little Grey on the texture where I still need to use the clone stamp tool.

wind
Ortu
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Posted: 1st Nov 2010 04:55
the hair is looking pretty good, but it is a little thin in places where the scalp shows through, the back in particular


entomophobiac
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Posted: 1st Nov 2010 12:50
Personally, I find it a bit too archetypal. It's practically yelling that the target audience is "adolescent male video game geeks."

Seriously, though, "armor" typically implies protection. Look at how revealing a modern day kevlar suit is. You need plenty of cushion between skin and shell if you want to merit from any type of proper protection.

Uniforms, similarly, are usually loose so they don't restrict movement too much.

As a summary: there's some real quality work in the texturing and modeling, here, and kudos for that, but I don't particularly like the concept itself.
wind27382
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Posted: 1st Nov 2010 13:13
well to be honest the target is "adolescent male video game geeks." but i do agree and will be making her armor thicker. there will be other layer that are put on top of it. also the hair needs major work. I'm not to good with hair but i have been experimenting lately.

wind
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2010 14:05
Quote: "lso I had a female friend say she was insulted by the size of those breast."


Show her Dead or Alive: Extreme 2, they actually invented something called "jiggle physics" just for that game...

You'll understand what that is if you see gameplay of it.

Quik
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2010 17:09
Quote: "lso I had a female friend say she was insulted by the size of those breast"


oh, so if i see a manly character which is extremely "manly" i shall be insulted?

honestly, thats just gibberdish.


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wind27382
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2010 17:21
you would be surprised. i have done freelance graphic designs where the female client sent work back because the illustrations breast where to big. they said she looked like a stripper. and gave me a lecture on the perfect female body image is an illustration sold by the man. and that it is the reason why young girls are unhappy with themselves.

needless to say I had to redo the work.

wind
Quik
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2010 17:26
I get the whole "look at that model she is so thin iam unhappy" thing ,but for crying out laud where talking fictional characters, give it a brake!


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wind27382
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2010 18:26
yea but I am putting all I have into this project so it has to be perfect. I need to use this for my demo reel and for the game project. ) if I can ever get it right)

wind
wind27382
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2010 19:05
a very small update on gen she fights wit two futuristic sub machine gun. As you can tell I have an awful lot of work left to do on this thing.







wind
Mazz426
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2010 20:04
it'll be easier to see what's what once she's holding it, but at the moment i'd recommend taking a look at some ergonomics diagrams, it'll allow you to get a grasp of where, proportionally things should be, also for your character, at the moment i'd say that the legs are slightly to far apart, the heads also a bit big, remember that the human head should fit 7 times into the body, head to foot, and im not sure if the face texture is still wip but the shadow underneath her nose isn't working, just my critiques, good luck it does seem that your dedicated on finishing this project and thats always good

Ortu
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2010 07:14
the 'shadow' looks to me like nostrils from a photo texture which hasn't been lined up properly to the model's features. I know you're still working on it, but the face texture would really benefit from blending out the line between face and head. Right now it makes me think of a creepy mask made out of someone else's face. If you've got them on separate layers quickmask with a gradient works really well


wind27382
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2010 12:25
bingo to ortu actually the nostrils have been lined up properly. but I had to actually cut and paste it the shadow that is left is where there actually isn't a face texture. i will spend today and fix all the problems with her face and hair.

wind
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2010 12:44
i like the look and flow of the gun, but the subdivision needs more control and definition.

Poloflece
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Posted: 4th Nov 2010 08:18
That smg is sweet, Here face might look a bit less... ugly if you close her mouth. The eyes make look better a bit more shut aswell, bur just my opinion it is a very good model


Poloflece


Poloflece, not to be mistaken for polofleece, polar fleece or polar flece.
PrimalBeans
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 00:51
FYI some women have mustasches. LOL. Critical remarks on the stereotypical design are just personal preference,(remember whos playing and buying computer games??) Unfortunate as some may see it, most guys who check out games online or at the store, are attracted like magnets to this kind of thing (Im not an acception). Its not really limited to games though and for the scope of quality i think it is a very good start, think the mustasche could be a revolution in the game industry, the new "thing", you wouldnt see too many females complaining if women in advertising and video games were unrealistically fugly. LOL all jokes aside the texture on the face could use some work... try avoiding any kind of gray or black to add shadow to the texture. Blending these colors to the skin tone will create a grey effect and thus you will have the five o'clock shadow problem you have now. In fact i would keep the texture pretty simple as too much detail in the wrong areas (mouth, nose, eyes) can create a very masculine effect. For example: the area under the nose seems like you drew in the shadow on the texture, unless your creating a normal map by hand i would avoid doing this, youd be beter off letting the game lighting or renderer calculating that kind of stuff. A very subtle normal map might be a good way to get the right effect on the face if its done right. Anyway i know how i might aproach it and others may have other ways, just my two half cents.

Astro Chickster
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 01:32
Clone stamp would work well on the ugly nose shadow. You're also probably aware that the seam where photo meets colour needs smoothing out some more.
RUCCUS
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 01:42 Edited at: 6th Nov 2010 02:20
You're mixing styles and getting a weird mix of the "uncanny valley" and some sort of anime-ish outcome. Look at pictures of the human anatomy, its very important to gain an understanding of the underlying structure of the human form before attempting a semi-realistic 3d character. Especially in the case of women as most people tend to draw / model them according to these strange predetermined ideas of what a woman looks like in their heads.

The head is your biggest issue here, Id suggest revamping the entire style. Dont try to make her so realistic, simplify some features and exagerate others. Really though, look into human anatomy, it'll help you so much.

Her feet are fairly rigid and square on the bottom and too rubbery on the tops, give them more of an overall foot-like form to them. They look a bit like jelly beans right now.

Its already been mentioned that the breasts are too large and also too bulging, again, check out human anatomy.

Other than that, in terms of rigging purposes, a lot of people have it in their head that modeling their characters in this sort of robotic-like rigid T-pose is the way to go. In actuality, the goal is to model the character in a sort of overall neutral, relaxed pose. It'll greatly lower the chances of rigging issues later on.

That means drop the arms a bit (roughly 30 degrees from the horizon is a good relaxed angle while maintaining the general t-pose), curl those fingers in a bit, and give the legs a very slight bend. The main reason for this is at any point on your mesh, it will more often than not be closer to it's neutral pose during animation for the majority of the animation than any other pose. If you model the mesh already in this fashion, you'll ensure more control over how things look in the end.

Finally, something to take note of for the eyes is the white space. In real life, when a human being is relaxed and in a neutral state, there is a little bit of white space below the pupil, yet the upper eyelid overlaps the top of the pupil. Again, it has to do with the muscles being relaxed. Gravity pulls down the lower eye lid all the way, while the upper eye lid is pulled down but remains open slightly due to the muscles in the face.

Taking one last glance at the photos, the mouth seems a little too low on the face as well. This is another tendancy for artists that havent studied human anatomy very much. You have two options here, either a) move the mouth up or b) move the eyes, ears and nose down increasing the forehead space. I would suggest going with option b as once again, human beings generally have more forehead space than the average person thinks. However you could probably get away with option a in your case as you already have a fairly decent sized forhead. If you go this route, be sure to lift the chin along with the mouth to maintain their distances from each other. If I get some time Ill alter your screenshot to show you what I mean.

<edit>

Alright did a really quick mockup of some of the changes Im talking about that I personally think would bring this character to life. (Minus the breast reduction).



You'll notice I gave her some bangs in front of her left eye. Things like this that break up the symmetry can do a lot. In the case of the eyes though, they help even more because the eyes are one of the most important things that need to be right in order to really sell the face to the viewer. Covering one eye up cuts your job in half. It also allows you to later on work with some more interesting lighting over the face.

Other alterations I made include lifting the tip of the nose up, pushing the cheecks in a bit, and giving more suggestion to an upper lip to really sell that this is a woman (the "no upper lip" thing is something that really pushes towards males instead of females). Lastly, I altered the shape of her head to skinny up her neck a bit and give some more curvature and interest to the back of her hair. And then I incorperated my previous suggestions of relaxing the eyes, moving the mouth up, etc. Something I noticed when looking closer at the eyes is you havent actually given any geometry for any eye lids at this point in time. Im not sure if you were planning to or not but I recommend you add it soon as eye lids are big part of the head. Avoid just having these "cut out lemon shapes" for eyes.

Again, these are all just suggestions, you dont need to use them. Ive been in the field for quite some time now so I thought Id share my thoughts.

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wind27382
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Posted: 10th Nov 2010 05:50
Ok RUCCUS I took a lot of your comments into consideration. I actually made a lot of changes myself but I think there are much more to come. I have studied anatomy a lot but I still have much more to learn.







wind
Ortu
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Posted: 10th Nov 2010 07:16
face is looking considerably better. A couple of things stand out to me though:

Your lips don't have much color definition against the skin tone, they just kind of blend in and don't do much to help define the mouth at a distance. You could try darkening them slightly or upping the pinkish/reddish tones.

The bridge of the nose seems a bit flat/rounded (front view) and is the same width from eyes to nostrils (which also makes the eyes feel slightly wide-set), most noses are more tapered up at the eyes and flare down to the tip.

lastly the eyebrows seem out of place, like they are just pasted on. I think this is because they are very dark and heavy and there are no stray hairs or gaps to break up the outline. You might consider softening the color and roughing the edge in a place or two.


RUCCUS
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Posted: 10th Nov 2010 09:58
Shes looking much better, but I still think you need to tweak the lip shape / position. Shes got a sort of fish-lips thing going on right now. I cant tell if its because her mouth is too far beneath the nose, or if its just the overall shape of the bridge between the upper lip and the bottom of the nose. Probably tweaking either one will help to fix the issue, but thats only my opinion. Still looking a lot better. Good job!
wind27382
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Posted: 10th Nov 2010 13:59
yea I can agree with you on the eye brows I didn't notice them until you mentioned it i will break it up. actually they are hairs on an invisible plane so I made them to thick and simply need to tweak it. and I am completely unhappy with the lips so i need to change them as well.

All though i do like the color I see your point about darkening, it.

wind
RUCCUS
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Posted: 10th Nov 2010 16:38
And again, if you just simply lower her upper eyelids so that they overlap a portion of the pupil she wont have that shocked look on her face that she does right now. Its such a simple tweak but it really changes her personality to be more relaxed and allow the viewer to pick up on her other traits.
Quik
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Posted: 10th Nov 2010 16:50
I must agree with RUCCUS here =) as of now, she looks like
1: she has no eyelids
2: what is she staring so intensivly at?
this makes her look extremely unrealistic


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 10th Nov 2010 16:59
Have to admit that I love the armour design. I think you have that down, it's just rubbing away the uncanny valley effect her face has. I imagine once you get the hang of this one though, the rest should come a bit a bit easier then...

PrimalBeans
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Posted: 11th Nov 2010 00:56
I think ruccus hit the nail on the head. I think the lips are the most distracting error i can see. They protrude out a little too much. One thing that most people seem to have trouble with lips is the corners. if you take a look at a human face the corners of your lips tuck in a little at the cheeks. (espesially during face poses that show emotion other then indifference LOL.) Im not sure that that is the best way to explain it but take a look at some face photos a bit and pay attention to how the corners meet the cheeks. I have to agree with ruccus on the rest possition as well. Modeling your character as close to what thier position will be during animation really keeps extreme movement down and thus keeps extreme deformation down and texture stretch down as well. rework the lips a bit and maybe even the nose (I cant tell by looking at the render weather she has a beak or not due to the lips, but if you fix the lips you may find that the nose sticks out a bit more then desirable and youll have to fix that as well.) The armor is nice and it kind of shows the type of modeling orietation your used to is mechanical. One other important thing is use a detailed aligned reference if you are not used to people. Even if you are the human figure is one of the hardes things to model and a good reference is essential. I personally sketch my own references for most of my characters and scan them into blender. When doing it that way draw your image as large as you possibly can and still be able to fit it in your scanner bed. To line everything up correctly amke sure your front view is square to the edge of your paper. (I do this by using a masonite drawing board with clips and a T square or tapping the drawing down on a square table and using a square.) Draw on profile first and then use your square to draw reference lines for the other profile. I personally use at least two profiles when modeling and more if i have something complex enough. I know thats a long winded speech there but hopefully reinforcing the best way to get it done. Keep up the good work your almost there!

wind27382
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Posted: 11th Nov 2010 22:27 Edited at: 11th Nov 2010 22:39
ok her is another version of her she is getting better but still have so much more to go. still need to fix her staring problem. also I am going to give her a ponytail so i am not finished with her hair as of yet








wind
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Posted: 11th Nov 2010 23:25
getting better, but she still has that moustache there, try shifting the mouth inwards a bit, I think it sticks out a bit far - makes her look quite ugly

"You can have the best graphics in the world, but if you dont use it right you'll just have a high definition turd."
PrimalBeans
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Posted: 13th Nov 2010 01:06
One thin that might also help shape here up a bit: the infranasal depression (thing channel between the upper lip and the nose) seems a little large. that might also be causing your mustasche problem if your gettin a shadow there. Just a thought. It really is shapping up, keep hacking away and you have ane excellent model.

wind27382
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Posted: 14th Nov 2010 17:07
time for the update almost finished roughing in the armor.





wind
PrimalBeans
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Posted: 16th Nov 2010 00:31
Good work! the armour looks fantastic! anyway keep at it

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