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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] Too expensive

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Miran
User Banned
Posted: 9th Nov 2010 11:50
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All things on Game Creator's are so expensive and unavailable for some parts of world(Balkan peninsula).The users aren't just in the USA or UK there are about 600 users in Serbia,Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia alone (that's not so small number you know I am expecting this problem to solve soon.)
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Leongamerz
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 12:14
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This bring benefit to TGC because of their hardwork

Hello
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Miran
User Banned
Posted: 9th Nov 2010 12:17
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So we are not welcome to TGC thank you very much!
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Soviet176
16
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 12:31
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No comrade, you are, you may have to make a special order.

Putting fear back into sliced bread since 4th May 2010
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Scene Commander
Support Manager
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 12:31
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It's difficult for anyone without money, but I personally think that TGC is one of the best for value, certainly for some of the model packs, just look at the latest Christmas offer.

http://jimjamsgames.yolasite.com
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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 13:28
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TGC's products are way under-priced for what you get (especially when it comes to the media). Try getting tools/media like this anywhere else for the price; I haven't seen anything comparable (please note that engines like Unity, UDK, etc still require some competency in programming/scripting to make anything of substance...and don't come with LOADS of free media, all ready to use) anywhere. Just like anything else in the world that costs some money; if you don't have the money, you can't have it. There's even a free version of FPSC to use.

As far as your location goes; it's not TGC's fault that you can't get it. FPSC is also down-loadable; if you can't get it through download, blame your country's policies on internet commerce.

-Keith

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Nickydude
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 14:01
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Just in case (and you know it will probably happen) please nobody ask about swapping TCG products or asking where they can download "non-free" software. Piracy is illegal and will be severely dealt.

Just a forewarning.



For KeithC
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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 14:33 Edited at: 9th Nov 2010 17:26
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If you can't afford it try the free version.

Alternately you could try out UDK which is free and is far, far more flexible (and better supported - and by that I may simply mean more often updated, as if you visit the site you'll see that it gets monthly updates), even without touching the amazing scripting language.

Disclaimer: All positive adjectives used in the above paragraph are my opinion and are based partially on the logic that UDK has a much larger development team with far greater financial backing.
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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 15:05 Edited at: 9th Nov 2010 15:06
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Quote: "Alternately you could try out UDK which is free and is far, far more flexible (and powerful, and fast, and stable, and supported), even without touching the amazing scripting language. "


Without getting into one of these debates again...UDK is free for educational and non-commercial game-making. To use it for anything commercial requires a $99 License Fee; which lets you keep everything you make up to $5,000. After that, you send Epic 25% of anything you make over and above the $5,000...which is pretty fair for what you're getting.

Also a note if you are a minor:

Quote: "A note to developers under the age of consent (minors): Please have your parents contact us for a UDK Commercial Use License, as we cannot enter into a license agreement with a minor."


To view the entire Licensing Page for UDK, click here.

In short though; if $50 is too expensive for you (half the price of UDK), you can forget using UDK for anything that you want to sell in any way shape or form.

And as a side note; FPSC is supported, as is evident by its past few updates.

-Keith

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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 15:27 Edited at: 9th Nov 2010 15:29
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I don't see the relevance of the licence issue since there has not been one successful commercial FPSC game to date. Besides, if your game is going to sell well then the license fee is a small price to pay for a world class engine. Moreover, you can develop your AAA game without having to pay anything upfront; if you decide that you want to go commercial, purchase a licence. No point paying for the right to commercially sell games if you're not going to use it.

Quote: "And as a side note; FPSC is supported, as is evident by its past few updates."


Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant UDK is much better supported.
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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 15:55 Edited at: 9th Nov 2010 15:56
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Quote: "there has not been one successful commercial FPSC game to date."

Not even going to bother doing the research for you, as that is an incorrect statement. It all comes down to what your definition of success is. I know of a single developer who has sold their FPSC creation to an entity for over $1000. Do they bother showing it here....nope; but it's happened.

Never said the $99 fee was too much; re-read my above statement on it. The poster here indicated that TGC's products cost too much; therefore (logically) $99 would be out of their price range...since they'd need to purchase the license before they started making one dime on their work.

Quote: "Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant UDK is much better supported. "


Again; that's your opinion. What work have you done with FPSCreator by the way?

-Keith

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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 16:06 Edited at: 9th Nov 2010 16:07
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Quote: "It all comes down to what your definition of success is"

A successful video game is one that becomes sufficiently popular and/or sells enough copies (the latter applies to a commercially successful game). It's fair enough saying "that is an incorrect statement" but I don't think you have anything to prove me wrong. You're right though, it's possible that there have been successful commercial games made in FPSC, just that empirical evidence suggests that it's unlikely (that and we know that there have been several successful UDK games despite it being much younger).

Quote: "$99 would be out of their price range...since they'd need to purchase the license before they started making one dime on their work."


If they expect to have a successful commercial venture they had better be prepared to put some money up front, you and I both know this. If they are just interested in making games for fun (as most of us here are) they can do it for free if they use UDK or the free version of FPSC.

Quote: "Again; that's your opinion"


Well it's a fact that UDK receives monthly updates, compared to FPSC's sparse updates. Not that I blame TGC though, they are a small company and have many products to maintain.

Not trying to bash FPSC by the way, just supporting my arguments. As I said there is a free version available, so it's possible to give it a try before you buy it.
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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 16:13
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By empirical evidence; I'm assuming it's because you haven't seen any sales figures posted here? I don't think you'll see that happening anytime soon.

UDK is young? That's odd; I was of the understanding that the engine (in one iteration or another) has been around for some time now...with (as you said) a MUCH larger team (with much more funding) working on it. As far as I know; they don't have other products they need to support as well.

Quote: "Not trying to bash FPSC by the way, just supporting my arguments."


Your Profile notes say otherwise, but OK then.

-Keith

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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 16:22 Edited at: 9th Nov 2010 16:23
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Quote: "UDK is young? That's odd; I was of the understanding that the engine (in one iteration or another) has been around for some time now..."


Not really relevant since we're comparing packages here and the UDK package itself isn't that old, even though the engine it's based on is.

Quote: "Your Profile notes say otherwise, but OK then."


I'm just a highly critical person; I consider myself a perfectionist, and I'm always looking for flaws and ways to improve on things. Since you have some proof that I'm bashing FPSC right now and not just having a healthy debate I'd be interested in seeing it. Otherwise we can continue our friendly discussion.
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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 16:41
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Quote: "Not really relevant since we're comparing packages here and the UDK package itself isn't that old, even though the engine it's based on is."


Are you kidding me? It's absolutely relevant. You're acting like they started from scratch with the statement that UDK is young...which is false, pure and simple.


Well; here's a snippet of notes I'm reading up on in your profile:



Those go along with your 10 warnings, 2 slaps and a ban.

As far as "proof" goes; I've seen enough of your postings in the past that suggests all of what's in the above box to be true. Take your initial comment in this thread, for example. You could have let it be with your first line (which was actually helpful); but you had to throw in a jab against TGC and their support as well. Just like all the other threads that you and others derail. The thread had absolutely nothing to do with UDK or Epic Games; it had to do with the author's thoughts on the pricing of TGC products.

-Keith

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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 16:51 Edited at: 9th Nov 2010 16:56
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Not sure how the advice and opinions of my first post got turned into this personal argument, but there we go. I'd written out an explanation as to why those notes are biased and why every debate on these forums ends in a lock, but there's not a lot of point in arguing about it (and we've both derailed this thread enough). I've edited my original post a little to be clearer in the hope that it won't offend anyone.

However, one more thing before we end this pleasant conversation:

Quote: "Are you kidding me? It's absolutely relevant. You're acting like they started from scratch with the statement that UDK is young...which is false, pure and simple."


Could you explain why this is relevant though? I mean, I'm just saying that for UDK's lifetime it's had some successful, fairly high profile games.
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Van B
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 17:04
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If UDK is so fantastic Benjamin, then why are you here?

UDK is a powerful PROFESSIONAL game engine, which means to make these professional games, you should be a professional programmer, sound engineer, artist, designer and producer. 1 guy on his own can make a game in FPSC, 1 guy on his own can make a terrible game in UDK, one guy on his own couldn't make a professional game in GDK, no matter what it's done or can do.

FPSC = realist
UDK = pie in sky

Know your boundaries and work with them, pushing them when you can - you can't just jump over them.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 17:08
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Quote: "If UDK is so fantastic Benjamin, then why are you here?"


I like to support the software development community with my pearls of wisdom. I just happen to pop into these sections from time to time to see what's developing.
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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 17:10
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Quote: "Could you explain why this is relevant though?"


Sure. You're comparing the abilities of the UDK engine, with FPSC. The UDK Engine itself was created (started work on) a long time ago; with a team (and funds) that dwarfs TGC's. In other words...they've had a "head start". Also, by virtue of it's usage in major game studios; the Epic Team has had some valuable (industry) feedback to help them along. TGC has had similar help by very competent people; but not in numbers, and certainly not in duration.

Is that clear enough for you?

Quote: "Not sure how the advice and opinions of my first post got turned into this personal argument..."


Because of your past behavior. Moderation here has a "cumulative effect". Here's a "guide" to help you: Member Moderation as well as additional Rules

-Keith

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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 17:18
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I can't help but feel that this argument is somewhat down to misinterpretation on one end or the other...

Quote: "You're comparing the abilities of the UDK engine, with FPSC."


Sure but why not? I appreciate the small size of TGC and what they've accomplished, but that's not really what I'm talking about. For the size of their team they haven't done a bad job with supporting their products, I'm merely saying that UDK is better supported - and I acknowledge that this is because they have a much larger team with a much larger budget.

Quote: "Because of your past behavior. Moderation here has a "cumulative effect"."


Not really fair to disallow my advice and opinions just because of the way I acted when I was less mature; people change over time, especially when growing from a young teenager from a adult.
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BlackFox
FPSC Master
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 17:24 Edited at: 9th Nov 2010 17:24
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Quote: "Sure but why not? I appreciate the small size of TGC and what they've accomplished, but that's not really what I'm talking about. For the size of their team they haven't done a bad job with supporting their products, I'm merely saying that UDK is better supported - and I acknowledge that this is because they have a much larger team with a much larger budget."


That's great for UDK. But this is the TGC forum, not UDK. Some of us are not interested in the debate on which is better (yet again). It is a matter of personal preference, and what works for the individual. It is just like comparing Ford to Chev. I find it a bit unprofessional when those that hugely support UDK come into the TGC forum and threads get derailed like this. I'm certain the UDK mods would take offense if a bunch of TGC supporters went there and told people that FPSC was better, derailing their topics. No matter how you try to explain your side, it will always turn out as a debate over which is better. Sometimes it's best to concede and walk away.

Besides, I believe the issue at hand has been answered and solved.

Quote: "Not even going to bother doing the research for you, as that is an incorrect statement. It all comes down to what your definition of success is. I know of a single developer who has sold their FPSC creation to an entity for over $1000. Do they bother showing it here....nope; but it's happened."


Success is measured by the individual, not the group.

- BlackFox

RPG Mod- Create a world full of adventure
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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 17:28
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Benjamin; your original statement was that UDK was young compared to FPSC, it was a misleading statement at best. Now you're creating a circular argument over it.

I know plenty of young teenagers who don't have an issue with behaving on an open Forum. As far as your advice goes; you should really work on the delivery of such.

-Keith

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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 17:32
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Quote: "I know plenty of young teenagers who don't have an issue with behaving on an open Forum."


Well unfortunately I wasn't one of them.

Quote: "your original statement was that UDK was young compared to FPSC"


I did, and I still stand by that statement - I'm just wondering what you thought I was implying when I said that?
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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 17:39
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The packaging of the engine is irrelevant to the effect that it's inner workings have been developed for many more years than FPSCreator. What you were implying (in my opinion) is that UDK got to where it is today in a much shorter time frame then FPSC did. Pretty sure I'm not the only one who surmised that from your statement.

-Keith

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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 17:54
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Quote: "The packaging of the engine is irrelevant to the effect that it's inner workings have been developed for many more years than FPSCreator. What you were implying (in my opinion) is that UDK got to where it is today in a much shorter time frame then FPSC did. Pretty sure I'm not the only one who surmised that from your statement."


Actually, what I meant was that more successful games have been produced in UDK despite its younger age.
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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 18:14
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UDK's age as a packet has nothing to do with it, as far as a game's success made with it. The Engine itself, designed over many years is what makes or breaks a game's development. Not the new wrapper it's in.

At any rate; this has gone on long enough. In the future; try real hard to keep from talking about an engine that has nothing to do with FPSCreator...in the FPSCreator/TGC Boards. Because I participated in this derailing; no moderation will be taken at this time. I can't say the same for the next time, however. Past behavior is a factor with me, regardless of age at the time.

-Keith

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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 18:14
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Flame

This thread has been locked due to the unmanageable number of flame responses. Please refer to section 3.11 - 3.12 of the Acceptable Usage Policy for full details:

http://www.thegamecreators.com/?gf=aup#forum

AUP Section 3.17 ...Moderators shall, at their discretion, determine what constitutes a violation of these terms, along with generally accepted netiquette standards, and can take action against those who violate these rules.

If you contributed to the reason for locking, you may now find yourself on moderation, or in extreme cases a ban.

-Keith

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