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Work in Progress / 3D Fighter - untitled : Alpha screen shots...

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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 5th Oct 2003 15:04
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Hi everyone,

Long time no post been busy with work, study, music, blah! Anyway, really need to give myself a kick up the butt to make some progress on a project I've been working on/off for a while, so I thought I'd post some screenshots of how it's going.

A few notes:

-Its a 3D fighting game! I've used Ninja's for now but what the theme will be in the end in not yet decided, maybe Ninja's, maybe Mutants, maybe Robots, who knows.
-All visual aspects are placeholders while I work on the core engine,
the models placeholder is slighly modified version of Psionic's Ninja (so mad props to Psionic for posting that model), the level I knocked up in seconds with CShop.
-The control system is a mixture of Soul Calibur for 8-way movement and SF/MK for moves.
-Once I get some time I'll set up a mini-site for this project to give you all more details and updates.
-The screenies are resized 800x600 captures, smaller so even us 56k users can see 'em

And finally, the images:













Comments welcome!
Thanks,
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 5th Oct 2003 15:13
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Good start. Keep working on it. I'd like to see some futuristic, and fantasy backgrounds. Inside a Gold Smelting plant would be cool. Inside a cavern with stalegtites. Near a waterfall! That sort of thing.

Pincho.
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Andrew
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Posted: 5th Oct 2003 17:16
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Um have any pics with action in it, like you see him actually kick him?

Looks great

My game will make sure Final Fantasy will never be forgotten.
Remember me because my game will be in the shops in a year or 2.
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MikeS
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Posted: 5th Oct 2003 18:30
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Looks nice, if it's anything like soul caliber it should be great!



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 6th Oct 2003 00:04
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Quote: "Its a 3D fighting game! I've used Ninja's for now but what the theme will be in the end in not yet decided, maybe Ninja's, maybe Mutants, maybe Robots, who knows.
"

how about all of them?
those ninjas look good!


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Mike Inel
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Posted: 6th Oct 2003 08:29
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Nice 3d models, but how many polys does every player have?
Is the system of the game fast like Guilty Gear XX?
or kinda slow but still great like Tekken 4?
Do you think it'll run at 1.7 Ghz, 128 Mb RAM DDR, 64 Mb VRAM, XP?
Is that game for Alieware competition?

I wanna play it... I'm excited...

(Suggestions)

Mostly, fighting game have no genre. Their themes sometimes sci-fi (Tekken 4; Bloody Roar 3) ,rock (Guilty Gear XX) or Ancient Times (Soul Calibur 2). But I suggest to make everything very stylish, even the things which can't be noticed. Try to play Guilty Gear XX, some are stunning. But Guilty Gear X is still better at sounds.

Uh.....duh.....whut?
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 6th Oct 2003 11:44
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Ive considered making something like this before, but changed my mind due to the fact that I couldnt get mo-cap (which is used in virtually every fighter known to man). The prospect of animating every move by hand was daunting! Good luck, I cant wait to see the finished product

"It's amazin' what you can do with a computer and access to t'internet"
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 6th Oct 2003 16:42
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Hi,

Thanks for the comments As for the speed... its hard to say while there is still so much to implement, but I will be aiming for it to run on average systems for sure.

Believe it or not, this actually started as a 2d fighter, sprite based, then plains, and then 3d. I couldn't resist 3d The best features so far are hard to show in a screenshot, stuff like 2 player input keyboard/joystick and no conflicts, and unlike other DB fighters I've seen, moves can also be pulled off by input combos, e.g. L-L-R-Punch, D-DB-B-Punch etc. I tested this out using combos from the Street Fighter Alpha manual.

That said, the gameplay itself is going to be straight forward. If Mortal Kombat is at one end of the scale, and VF4 is at the other, I hope to sit in the middle. More focus on moving about to avoid moves then countering, rather than spending hours learning a billions combo's. So I'm hoping for a fairly fast paces, easy to pick up, 8-way movement, simple combo fighter. I'd like to keep Version 1 simple and not get bogged down with the complexities of the modern technical fighter, get a stable base and work from there.

Oh, also everything is state driven, so I'm hoping (but I've not tested this fully) I'll be able to drive the AI using a scripting format that I've come up with. More on that later, and if it actually works

There are tons of things to do in 3d fighting games, I can see why they are so hard to achieve for the bedroom programmer (like me), but hey, he-who-dares...

Cheers.
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Mike Inel
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 12:46
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Have you played Guilty Gear X?(PC&PS2) or Guilty Gear XX?(PS2)

Uh.....duh.....whut?
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 19:55
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Hi,

Yes, I own GGX on the PS2. Wicked game, lovely sprites, heavy metal and lighting quick

See ya.
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Northern Fist
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 02:48
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Great lookin game. I'm a real sucker for fighting games.

I'm also a sucker for the martial arts. I study an art that has alot of kicks in it (yes, I can do the splits - both ways). I couldn't help but notice that your ninjas could possibly have shorter legs than they should.
Maybe I'm a bit off, but the round kick screenie appears to have a kick that doesn't do that kick any justice in range or posture (form).
I realize that animation is EXTREMELY difficult to pull off... It's just that I could probably kick better than that ninja - no offense.
Then again, holding a sword upright like that while kicking is bound to look very ackward. If your characters are going to have weapons like katanas I recommend seriously limiting the kicks (even more than Soul Caliber).

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
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LoRd_SnOw
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 03:47
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wow impressive

spin-x emulation will never die
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the desktops
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 14:56
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keep up the goood work

Dennis Saxton
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WarHunterX
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Posted: 11th Oct 2003 00:35 Edited at: 11th Oct 2003 00:36
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You like the Blitz Forums too? Thats where he released those models. Lookin good, scenery is a little bland though
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Northern Fist
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Posted: 11th Oct 2003 05:53
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Let's hurry up here...
Darkbasic is BADLY BADLY in need of some fighting games. I mean, get yo butt seated and type your brains out...

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
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Northern Fist
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Posted: 11th Oct 2003 06:51 Edited at: 11th Oct 2003 22:25
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I meant that in a positive way, mind you...

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 14:26
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Thanks for the comments all

As for the model, it is just a placeholder and it is not my own. I only made some minor modifications to it to test the game engine. I really need to free up some time to keep this project moving, I too reckon there is a severe shortage of fighters for DB!
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The Dark Padawan
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Posted: 13th Oct 2003 21:54
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Isn't that Psionic's Ninja model?

"Nintendo GameCube is the best" and " I am nearing the day I become a Jedi" - The Dark Padawan
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 17:46
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Yep it is, in the first post I gave a shout out to Psionic for that model, I'm using it as a placeholder/scaler.

Cheers.
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Nazgul
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 22:22
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I might be interested in helping you a bit with the artwork...unluckily don't see here a PM button, and don't like putting my email in forums...
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Nazgul
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 22:29
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I can model, animate , texture and draw. But I don't compromise my self for it. I think any help can be welcome...
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Nazgul
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 02:45
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Hey, I see the rules now...

well, here's my address. Write me if you're interested in some samples, for some little help.

GimpIncubus@netscape.net
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 16:14
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Hi, sorry for not responding sooner. That is certainly an interesting offer, (let me know if you get any samples shots up on the web, others here may be interested too?). I think if anything I'd be interested in models, but not animated, and there would be limb rules to follow - ya see my code is designed in such a way that the animation and code are linked together so it makes sense for me to animate them (that probably only makes sense to me!), mind you, this is all pretty far off to be honest, I still have many many core issues to sort out and artwork is last on the list.

Cheers,
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Nazgul
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 16:59
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humm...I'll see if I mount a quick site with a pair of shots. I would had preferred better the email sending way.

I see. Well, I was mostly interested in the animation part.

However, as that was about helping a bit in your project, I still may do some stuff for it. But animation really was my main interest..and I have animated before following very strict limb and bone naming rules...it actually removes all the fun of it

However, there's a little error on the side kick; the crotch is too low.

You are then using segmented limbs, instead of single model with the skin deformation mesh method, I assume ? (I don't know if already Darkbasic pro admits dx8 skinned bones format) That is, using meshes as keyframes, and letting DB Pro calculate the interpolation in real time ?

I just have been browsing DB Pro forums for if I would have found a 3d fighting project with skin deformation mesh or bones and weights type of animation. Being so related with directx format, I had some hopes.

Glad to meet someone that is doing a 3d fight game, anyway.
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 19:28
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Hi ya,

I'm using Psionic's model only as a guideline, so any comments on for accuracy should go to him But the model is one skin over bones, it is not single limbs. Hopefully I can keep the momentum on this game, I've seen a few fighters on DB/DBP but they faded away. I can see why, it is one of the hardest to do well, but I hope to build on this little by little, keeping it fairly simple to start with, not making it overly complex.

Cheers.
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Nazgul
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 00:34
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Probably it's more a problem of the asigned weights, more than an error in Psionic model. BTW, is just a screenshot, I don't see it clearly.

well, much better, if it's a single piece model, I suppose...with a percentage of weight over every vertex... Or is it all weighted like Halflife models, 1.0 or 0.0 weight only(I hope not)? I mean, that is what gives smoothnes to a joint bending.

hmm...about that complex boning system...Perhaps I'd surely handle it, if you wish so. Or even, pass me the made skeleton, and then I adjust weights and do animations. But is a great plus in a project when a coder like you can animate! 8)

For the modelling part..I'm very quick modelling...a bit slower uv mapping, and very slow texturing...unless I make less than average quality textures. Which could be a solution.

I don't compromise myself, so you can end up with half a model, but hey, it's half a model and surely very carefully done, and for free. (as much I'll ask for put my name on credits, maybe not even that. If there's something I always wanted to do -now I don't do stuff for free, this is an exception- is take part in a martial arts fighting game. I'm a Bruce Lee fan. Not a freak, I just liked his films when was a child. )

Besides for me not compromising to it, it can be very helpful if you already can do some part of the art. I mean, if you can rig, animate, uv map, or texture (mostly last part, except face: people use to like my face skinning ) surely it'll make things easier, more fluid and quick. As can work at same time in same model. I'm sorry I can't code a single bit. Just a bit of VB, but merely crap.

I'm quick at human modelling, and I have been "used" specially for that.

Well, finally, if you wish, I can help you. I just don't compromise myself in ending it. It may sound little serious, -but indeed, is specially serious as I know what I can offer and what not- but in the other side, what will be made will be made with quality, and you'll have that for free. Yep, I know it goes against the rules to speak so, as haven't show yet anything. I have some problems to show stuff, but I'll handle to build now a site and upload a bit I may model in some minutes, for you to check my skills.

I know is a strange offer, but who knows.
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 12:09
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Hi, I look forward to seeing your screenshots Ah, a Bruce Lee fan, excellent. The art of fighting... without fighting...
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Nazgul
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 13:23
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yes, no one can "offend my family..."

I'm not really a freak, but I have some Bruce Lee mpgs (from Bruce fan sites) in my hd which make you wish to animate this kind of movements...Played frame per frame, it can't be seen several movements, not even freezed, sometimes just a shadow of color in the air, sometimes not even that. He was "too" quick

I don't like mocap or other stuff..I prefer animate in free style, from scratch...That is, just from your mind.

Well, now (not now, I'm working) I have to "flow like water" to make a quick piece of model or something, and build that site
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Nazgul
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 20:38 Edited at: 17th Oct 2003 20:41
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oops
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Nazgul
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 20:39 Edited at: 17th Oct 2003 20:40
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Hi, mounted the site, but only dedicated yet -some few minutes- the very basic steps starting from a box. But just to upload something. I'll go updating that quick site. You'll go liking it more as I update

That's just merely a "place holder" for making the site.

the site : http://www.freewebs.com/sysiphus/
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Northern Fist
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 22:44 Edited at: 17th Oct 2003 22:45
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Nice!
It's just too bad that human motion capture technology for 3D animation is a still farfetched. Else, some of us martial artists on this board could contribute bone-animations of different movements.

Fantastic model Nazgul!

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
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Nazgul
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 17:39
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Hey, cool you liked it, even just being the "primitive" a little evolved...

In fact, I like the fact that there are martial arts experts here, it may come handy Though I must say, getting it too technical will make it no fun to me, indeed...As I'm doing this mostly for pleasure. Anyway, that in case I take part in the animation proccess...

What I like more is that this same people also like 3d fighting games. I've wanted to do one on my own since was a child. But the knowledge I need to learn is too huge, just to make a pacman, so can't even think of a 3d fighting. I'm told is challenging, but seems Lamptorn has started it the only clever way I know in making games (in coding and art) : Start smoothly, grow later.

Got some questions, in the design of the character...

Does DB pro allow double renderable faces, with alpha tgas? That is for making the few polys look like straps of hair. The double renedrable without alpha, for the clothes.

I have already a design in mind, similar to bruce in one of his films...a thin character, very quick and flowing smooth movements, with an open lousy shirt (I'll draw well the muscles, bruce's type ) , perhaps jeans and sport shoes...

That with the animatable polys for the hair and floating shirt. 4 bones or so for the shirt. In character Fx.

well, too much to mention ...let's see what is possible and what not..

If not, hey the tipical kung fu guy with black kung fu trousers and chinese shoes....
I rather prefer the other.
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Northern Fist
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 01:36 Edited at: 19th Oct 2003 01:36
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So basically, a Forrest Law clone (Martial Law if you played Tekken 4).

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 19:47
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..look forward to seeing a textured version in some poses. Reminds me of a model I did using Psionic's Zombie tutorial some time back, may dig that out.

See ya.
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Nazgul
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 02:16
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Hi...that which I showed is not even a basic model

I am afraid textured already would be a bit quick (besides uv mapping, once I arrive there, is a bit time consuming, if done well)

But it'll come out nicely

Yes, perhaps is similar to that tekken character. I have not played that game, but I have seen in google a brief description of the character...

Well, you must think it's gonna be inspired more or less in Bruce Lee, but in anyway will be him. Just a fighter with that "feeling".

I have modelled it a bit more now, but will show it once gets a bit more advanced.

I started from scratch like always. I have several models here, made only by me, but I always prefer to start from a box or sphere, it seems you get so to improve the speed of the process at the first steps, keeps you trained in that first stage.

Just starting to guess the floating shirt is gonna bring a lot of extra animation work...but also it'd be great...
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Northern Fist
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 02:38
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By that "feeling", there are so many derivitives that I can imagine. There is another Bruce Lee clone in Dead or Alive 3 (I think his last name is "Li"). There is also another in Street Fighter named Fei Long. There are countless others that I can't remember.

For originality's sake, I suggest that you look beyond the box when you think about a chinese fighter inspired by Bruce Lee. Perhaps the nature of the fighting game would help us a great deal. For instance, if the fighting game is centered around a martial arts tournament then a Tekken clone is in order. If the game is centered around a super-strange plot that encompasses everything from aliens to werewolves then a Killer Instinct clone is in order. If martial arts techniques are the primary focus of gameplay then a Virtua Fighter clone is in order.

Possible fighting game characters can range from martial artists to:
1. Mutants and beasts (Bloody Roar).
2. Cyborgs (hmmm).
3. Robots (One Must Fall - good game).
4. Humans with Superpowers (Marvel vs. Capcom series)
5. Animals (Rage)
6. many more...
The point I'm making is originality. That's what this genre needs. It brings attention much more than a something like a street fighter clone (been there done that kinda thing).

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
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Nazgul
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 14:28
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I'd rather prefer humans, and a realistic focusing...

I have much more liking of realistic stuff.. Thinking more in those B. Lee films, with that atmosphere. It's what moves me to martial arts games...

While what you say about originality is important, I really (I don't know Lamptorn thoughts) care more about having success on creating technically the game. Best if for now is a simple scene and 2 fighters. It can grow later. I almost know how much work is going to be for Lamptorn. IMO, is best not to care much about game very original design, or lots of extra features... Let us get a basic thing going, as later on things can be modified. Or leave as they are in fields they'll be good enough.

Also, I haven't had a deep look at those games. I played Tekken I in PS, only once in a friend's house. Surely I have also played once or two a very old virtual fighter in some machine... And street Fighter, a lot. But that's all. Then I watched about 6-10 bruce lee films I think, in my vilage's summer cinema...enough to want to reproduce that kind of thing, as a hobby.

I don't think I know those games well enough to clone them. In what refer to art, of course. After all I'm talking (for now) about a model only , and perhaps his animations.

Who knows, if Lamptorn is ok with that, once he sees my actual skills and evaluate them as good or bad , and I keep liking it, I may make whatever the art needed for following tasks...but let us go step by step. I don't compromise.

I never liked remakes of games...neither clones. I just like martial arts in films and games, and would try to reproduce that in a character model Other thing I never do in my art is Manga. I respect it fully, I just prefer other style.
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Dsarchy
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 20:25
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I have that model i think, its the ninja form real game tools isn't it?

?
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Nazgul
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Posted: 20th Oct 2003 22:40
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The ninja from Psionic is almost in everywhere...
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Nazgul
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 01:55
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little update...it's more work done than it can be seen.

Indeed, with only fixing some errors, add some teselation at joints, remove extra polys, and perhaps, add the floating shirt modelling, and it could be ready for mapping. Probably is best idea to not use much time in each stage.

http://www.freewebs.com/sysiphus/

scroll that site down a bit, I'm not replacing the images...I will once it has a length. As is better to see the changes.

http://www.freewebs.com/sysiphus/ <--3d fight model there
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MikeS
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 04:24
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Nice model.



Hope your project continues on success LamptonWorm !

A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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Nazgul
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 14:29
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Hey, Lamptorn.

Coming to the point I need to know a pair of details, but perhaps you can't say yet them..

Polygon count for the model. It's below 1000 triangles for now(I think), even without optimizing. But...Do you want fingers? (I suppose several posing that will need fingers in martial arts...) You know, if you only plan to put the typical Virtual Fighter scenery behind, but a nbit more complex, I am almost sure it wont be more than 5.000 triangles as much a lot (doing it very detailed) That allows you to use more polys in characters. In PS, once I read for driving game, as only the 8 cars where there, and scenery was just as simple, they put 5000 polys per car... May I be supposing 2000 triangles would be ok? Or is that too much? do you plan to put more?

Also, I have been searching in these site..can't find info about if db pro allows tga maps with opacity channel, double renderable in the engine...you know, that used for making leaves and plants (I've done of those) , I'd use it for the hair straps.

Oh, I have come out with an idea: floating shirt but not in the arms, it'll have a design I could remember from certain film, though it was a bruce like actor, not Bruce Lee. Anyway, is just an inspiration.


I'll see if later can come up with the modeled thing, so you finally see the full design. (If I do, probably it'd be time to start UVs )

hey, hope you allow me animate a bit...

You could send me to that email the tech infos I need to know for adapting to your bones system...and if you prefer, even sending me the skeleton : I can rig it then and start animation.

http://www.freewebs.com/sysiphus/<--3d fight model there
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 15:13
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Hi, found a few more bugs that I need to fix and some collision code that really needs finishing, so it'll be a while before I need a model. I need to go back several revisions and re-think how I've implemented some of the movement code, may take a while as my spare time is really really short at the moment weeks start to fly by but I hope to grab some hours for this soon (if you want something to play around with instantly, get hold of Psionic's Ninja and use the skeleton from that for now maybe...don't worry about anim just get, but I'd be keen to see how good a mesh/skin you could put over that skeleton.)

Cheers.
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Nazgul
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Posted: 21st Oct 2003 19:21 Edited at: 21st Oct 2003 19:24
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Ok..

I am in the proccess of that. I think you will like it.

I may change that ninja skeleton to fit my model, once I get there. I first have to impress you with my modelling and skinning

http://www.freewebs.com/sysiphus/<--3d fight model there
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Nazgul
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 00:59 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2003 01:02
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updating..I'm modelling now..I'll update other time or two this next hour...

http://www.freewebs.com/sysiphus/<--3d fight model there
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2003 14:44
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Cool. Look forward to it
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Nazgul
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2003 02:50
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update...some polishing yet needed, but it's the character

to late...to bed now...

next : mapping.

http://www.freewebs.com/sysiphus/<--3d fight model there
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Nazgul
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Posted: 24th Oct 2003 14:47
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well, some polishing update.

Started reducing polys more seriously...

Some cloth detail (look at the neck)

scaled in Y the shirt.

face fixings, yet need some.

Some proportions fixings.

but while I do this I'm deleting polys, as I'm in the count down to get it to UV mapping.

well, need really to know it. If 2000 would be ok, before mapping. I suspect 2000 tris is more than OK for a game (and these days PCs) where only appear 2 fighters and an scenery, not necesarily very huge in polygon count.

http://www.freewebs.com/sysiphus/<--3d fight model there
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 25th Oct 2003 12:20
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Hey, that's really nice Really looking forward to seeing the poly count down a little and the texturing applied. Keep up the good work!
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Nazgul
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 23:33
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oops

Did not lower the polycount...

So I understand if you don't use it at the end in case you are forced to use lower count models due to the engine.

But I decided not to loose detail and smooth feeling.

I don't mind, if you can't use it at last I'll use it ofr portfolio or any other thing.

it's now 2000 polys and...a bit more.

Again, I'll understand if you don't use it. Anyway, I know today engines can handle much more even with four players at once...3500 is unreal t. 2003...per model. And that's a multiplayer game.

But ok, I'll understand.

No update at the site. Just passed by here I ended a very quick -far from perfect- uv mapping. So now it's the texturing. I did it so quick as I'm in a hurry. And due to I know it should be ok,more or less.

Now is the texturing.

http://www.freewebs.com/sysiphus/<--3d fight model there
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