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Geek Culture / i just bought the D&D dm's guidebook

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Wiggett
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Posted: 6th Oct 2003 07:29
yeah. im so totally a nerd now, im also trying to organize getting a copy of hero quest, the old milton bradley game, off this guy for $35. im waiting on the phone call. But expect most of my gamesto have some decent stylee d&d type rules in them, specially teh mmog we're workin on, the one with jedi's and pirates, it will have character feats aswell. i guess we should get eth engine going first. how is it goin van? i cant work on it cause my computers are still in the non working zone, infact this computer crashes on most websites that use flash :/ thats right, flash. and my other computer that i formatted and put win 98 on isnt much better, plus it doenst have db yet.anyway. carry on.

Arrow
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Posted: 6th Oct 2003 17:20
What Edition is it?


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
Van B
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Posted: 6th Oct 2003 18:51
Been real busy with my compo entry - but I will get another go on it this week sometime, just determined to get my main dudes animated first before I take a little breather .


Van-B

My cats breath smells of cat food.
ESC_
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Posted: 6th Oct 2003 19:10 Edited at: 6th Oct 2003 19:11
Oh yeah, I've got hero quest. There's a semi-finished pc version here: http://www.allegro.cc/depot/project.php?_id=1054&request=1065453015&

"That's not a bug, it's a feature!"
"Variables won't, constants aren't."
Ian T
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Posted: 6th Oct 2003 19:55
Hope it's 3.5 .

If you want the best game possible, buy Arcana Unearthed and 3.5 together. Pick and choose between the rules

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Wiggett
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 04:25 Edited at: 8th Oct 2003 04:29
yeah its 3.5. I've read through and gathered a crew of my mate, my gf an dher brother, gonna start a campaign this weekend. holy shazbot! a game boy emoticon!!!!!! HOLY CRAP MORE NINTENDO EMOTICONS! he is from yoshi's island!wait, they took away pirate??? test

oh and thanks for that heroquest link, my gf's brother and i were comtemplating makign our own pc version, but i knew there already was one i knew it

indi
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 05:50 Edited at: 8th Oct 2003 05:51
hehe i sold all my 1st and 2nd edition D&D stuff ages ago, We are talking about 600 books modules magazines mats figures etc...

I still have an original DM and players handbook.

I even sold a mint condition 1st edition fiend folio and the legends and lore with the cthulu gods! two extremely rare books in the D&D circles.

Having well over 10 years of rpgs on paper and running a rpg club on the weekends helps greatly on DT.

oops some geekyness slipped out there.


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Mattman
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 05:54
D&D? I assume you are talking about Dungeons and Dragons...

Got a knack for finding secrets??? Jingot Racing --- A new brand of Racing --- Only from Nightwatch Studios
"hey, it's tomorrow" --- Hamish
Arrow
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 06:13 Edited at: 8th Oct 2003 06:14
I bought all three core rule books awhile ago, I resently bought a great suplment called Toolbox, it's nothing but charts. It has everything from incounter tables to goods gained by pick pocket to randsom dungeon sounds. It even has a table on the back for reasons to buy the book. It's a must for any DM that makes stuff up on the fly or for players that are into detail.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
Ian T
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 08:13
'D&D? I assume you are talking about Dungeons and Dragons...'

hehe


I'll look into that Arrow, sounds neat. The local B Dalton at the mall has a decent section with RPG resources & novels, plenty of independant d20 system stuff (Malhavoc Press anyone?), and if that fails... Barnes and Noble?

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
las6
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 09:25
...That's an expensive hobby you've got there.

I loaded some .pdf files to study the mechanics a bit for one rpg project that I was working on. that was whoppingly 700mb of different books and stuff in .pdf. Got d20 some ad&d, and of course, "special" (fallout ruleset).

Van B
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 11:08
There was a real old Heroquest game on the old 16 and 8 bit machines, I liked it, one of the few games like that which allowed 2 players (except for the awesome Bloodwych). I suppose it was one of the first ever Diablo style RPG's.


Van-B
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My cats breath smells of cat food.
Arrow
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 15:34
Quote: "The local B Dalton at the mall has a decent section with RPG resources & novels, plenty of independant d20 system stuff (Malhavoc Press anyone?), and if that fails... Barnes and Noble?"
What, you don't have a "Who's Hobby"? anyway the book is by AEG so if the local stores fails you check out http://www.alderac.com and see if you can get it there.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
CattleRustler
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 17:53
I still have all of my original AD&D stuff (Gary Gygax) all of the hardcover books, dice, a bunch of modules, oh yeah and the DM Screen - woo hoo!


-RUST-
Mattman
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 00:45
Well, is it Dungeons and Dragons?

Got a knack for finding secrets??? Jingot Racing --- A new brand of Racing --- Only from Nightwatch Studios
"hey, it's tomorrow" --- Hamish
Preston C
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 00:53
I've got a 7 of the 3rd edition books (not 3.5) and the 3 core rule books of the 2nd "Advanced" edition.


CattleRustler
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 02:38
Mattman, if that was to me it's Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, the original game from when I was your age. I know at some point in the years following that time they changed the whole thing and made it more "bubble-gum-ish". Anyway that's the beauty of dnd, you can use whatever version and make a fun game for you and your friends. I haven't played in about ten years, sadly.

-RUST-
Mattman
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 02:58
I thought so. I LOVE that game! My grandpa still has my dad's old Intellivision and whenever I visit I always play it, there is a bunch of old (and great) games for it!

Got a knack for finding secrets??? Jingot Racing --- A new brand of Racing --- Only from Nightwatch Studios
"hey, it's tomorrow" --- Hamish
Ian T
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 02:59
er....

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
indi
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 03:35
Bloodwych was freeken awesome.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 04:35 Edited at: 9th Oct 2003 04:35
Mattman-wait, what?
I am talking about AD&D, the game played with dice, books, pencils, and paper! What are you thinking of?!

And yes I have just "dated" myself

-RUST-
Preston C
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 04:47
I think they've made quite a few D&D based adventure and computer games up to this point. Maybe thats what he's talking about.


Mattman
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 04:48
lol. http://www.intellivisionlives.com/bluesky/games/credits/action.html#cloudy

or

http://www.intellivisionlives.com/bluesky/games/credits.shtml

Got a knack for finding secrets??? Jingot Racing --- A new brand of Racing --- Only from Nightwatch Studios
"hey, it's tomorrow" --- Hamish
Ian T
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 05:04
Hehe, was that the ancient roguelike? You might like ADOM...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Arrow
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 06:53
Umm... no, that's not D&D. D&D has been around way befor video games. It's the original RPG. Before then they only had stratagy games (like 'Risk'), a few group of guys thought it would be cool to play as heros of these armies, that led to ChainMail. Gary Gynax to the concept a bit futher and created D&D, a complete interactive adventure. The term D&D actually covers a broad varity of pen & paper RPGs, even more so now with the d20 system. They range from midevil fantasy to sci-fi to modern spirtual detective. Basic you have the players (self explanitory) and the GM who is the one in charge. The GM creates the story, playes the monsters and guilds you through the game, if D&D was a video game the GM would be the computer.

In D&D you have a whole lot more freedom than in any video game, say to have to fight an evil wizard who is tormenting a local town. You can gather town members to storm his fort, sneak in using stealth, even try to join him. You make the desitions on what to do, however there will be consequences. If you are a level 1 Rouge who desides to take on a Red Dragon by yourseld expect to be making a new character. Yes, that's right, unless you got a crap load of cash or a really good Cleric pal, you stay dead. Don't expect to be having hundreds of HP ethier, you start out with anywhere from 4 to 12 HP (depending on your class). Armor ids different than video game RPGs as well, insted of reducing damage they nullify it. Basicly the better armor you got, the harder it is for an enemy to hit you.

The magic system is VAST! Over 130 pages listing spells and spell description in the player's handbook, other books and suplement have more spells. The down side is that you'll never learn them all, there's a limit on how many you can learn, and the really powerful spells can only be learned by a few.

If you want to learn more about D&D just do a internet search, or check out your local hobby store, but if you do use the internet ignore the sites saying D&D is evil, they are the same people that say video games, music, and anything else teenagers like is evil too.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
indi
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 07:05
I never got a hold of the a3 chainmail book that came before D&D basic edition. Gary Gyjax ripped off his university mates to create D&D since they all contributed into chainmail, Its a rare little paper back book to find but is one very cool collectors item to have,

Wiggett
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 07:25
yeah, i got into d&d pc games at an early stage, and also tabletop rpg sound smad, cause of the options oyu get which are more diverse than pc games. but i used to play warhammer but got bored quick cause it wasnt rpg enough, (fug squad battels i want heroes and levelling up ) so yeah i went out an dbought teh book, now my gf, her brother and one of my mates are gonna play, im teh dm, i've already made an intro story for teh campaign which is different for each character. but i have to write up my gf and her brotehrs characters and im having trouble with some bits. cause navigating the electrical version of the players hand book is a bit with a ch, and also cause it doesnt say anywhere how to work out your base save for the saving throws.i got the save modifiers down but not the base. but anyway i've posted on a d&d forum and im getting help with making them. my campaign will be a crusae agianst an evil cult that is trying to take over the realm. but along the way there are side quests to gain exp, just like a pc game would have

indi
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 08:59 Edited at: 9th Oct 2003 09:01
base saving throws are listed in a table for each class

http://www.bookshelf.mcmail.com/vdnd/vdnd04.htm

Looks different with 3rd edition
I found it really easily for 3rd edition on google

http://home.gwi.net/~rdorman/frilond/rul/hou/saves.htm


some tools also
http://www.zardoz.de/adnd.html

Wiggett
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 13:41
i checked those two links out, they still dont really help, what im looking fo ris base fortitude save, base reflex, and base other one. Because on the character sheet it says base save + modifiers. and i cant see any save numbers except for the modifiers, or am i looking wrong?

gets diced in the eyes cause his player cant figure out the base save to defend himself. ouch.

indi
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 16:14 Edited at: 9th Oct 2003 16:24
Ive never used 3rd edition so I cant comment on it.

try the keywords AD&D base reflex in google in a string and it should show 3rd edition base charts for all sorts of classes.

personally 3rd edition looks a lot more complex than 1st n 2nd edition and I would stick to 1st or 2nd edition since I have the most experience in that regard.

Id even look at basic D&D books for a more simplistic approach to how to go about making a smaller prototype engine for an electronic RPG> after I have the basics down I would be heading off in my own direction so it didnt feel like a D&D clone.

Id look into other paper RPGS like M.E.R.P. ( Middle Earth Role Playing) and StormBringer for much better ideas on how to make something intersting.

Arrow
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 16:27 Edited at: 9th Oct 2003 16:31
Players handbook, page 22, table 3-1.


Every class has certain saves that are better or worst than others.

Barbarains, Fighters, and Palidins have good saves in Fort but not in Ref or Will

Rouges have good saves in Ref but not in Fort or Will

Sorcerers and Wizards have good saves in Will but not in Fort or in Ref

Clerics and Druids have good saves in Fort and Will but not in Ref

Rangers have good Fort and Ref but not in Will

Bards have good saves in Ref and Will but not in Fort

Monks are good in all saves


Actualy Indi, 3rd edtion is a bit simpler (esspecially dealing with AC and Hit Rolls) and it really gives you freedom, like muti-classing or you can pass level 20. I was into 2nd Edition too, but since I've picked up 3rd Edition, I haven't looked back.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
Necronian
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 17:41
I started playing with AD&D, but then Wizards of the Cost bought the rights to D&D and released 3rd edition. Third edition rules are great, it made it easier for us at least because all our characters are around level 70 now and we didn't want to start a new caimpaign. Although 3rd edition doesn't have info about highter than level 20 charactes it is much easier to modify the 3rd edition rules.

I checked out 3.5 rules the other day, and in my opinion they suck. (They screw over all spellcasters) But it looks like it is much easier for newbies to get into the game with the new rule changes.
Arrow
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 20:05
They've releaced a book on high-level canpains, it's called the Epic Levels Handbook. It has new monsters and magic items designed for levels beyond 20, though I kinda find it hard to beliave you reached level 70. The DM's I've talked to said that've rarely had players reach 30, and it took months just to progress a single level.


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Ian T
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 21:13 Edited at: 9th Oct 2003 21:13
I think 3.5 is good. 3.0 was amazing, tons better than the royally-messed-up second edition, but it has its flaws... Intuitive Direction (I think that's what it was called) was a skill-- yes, just that little ability, a solid skill-- that you only needed to put 2 points into to get its full worth out of. Divination spells were a royal pain for dungeon masters. Gnomes really got the short end of the stick with their speciality being a sub-class instead of a class. That's all fixed in 3.5.

3.5 does have some weird problems of its own however... take the new weapon size rules. Utterly ridiculous.

That's why I think the best thing to do is use both Arcana Unearthed (an alternitive rule set for d20 developed & written by Monte Cook) and the 3.5 rulebooks (some great fixes, but they lost most of their decent designers shortly after 3.0 and thus made some big mistakes), and pick and choose between them.


The Epic Level Handbook is brilliant by the way. It's really a must for DMs who are having their characters get more powerful.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Necronian
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 03:40
Too much money to buy the epic level handbook, a D&D rulebook is wayyyy to expensive.

Quote: "though I kinda find it hard to beliave you reached level 70. The DM's I've talked to said that've rarely had players reach 30, and it took months just to progress a single level."


It all depends on how you play the game.
We use mostly house rules when we play, infact we don't use many of the D&D rules anymore. With a few days worth of good work we could probably come up with an entierly new game. We played D&D before any of us had ever heard of it! Since the 3rd edition didn't come out until recently and the second edition was no longer being published(as far as I can understand) when we started P&P games. That is until one day my uncle told me about how he always used to play D&D.

D&D is great because it takes care of most of the balance issues that present themselves when creating a p&p game for you. But the rules that it creates are in no way set in stone, something that many player don't realize when they start to play. But for many people like us who like to play very involved campaigns, the rules aren't the greatest. There is practically nothing about politics, and nothing about buying and owning property.

Its all about how much fun your having, not expensive ruleboooks, and usless numbers.
Arrow
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Posted: 10th Oct 2003 06:13
That's what the suplments are for, $30 bucks isn't that much. Many of those rules create a more entertaining experiance. Having it so that you character can't even die really zaps the fun out of the game after awhile. The rules offer a great deal of freedom in 3.5, if you completely disreguard them why buy the book in the first place.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
Necronian
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Posted: 12th Oct 2003 03:37
I don't know what you mean about not being able to die, when you get to high levels you don't fight level 2 characters, you fight charactes who are closer to your own level, or a really lot of low level characters. I lost my favorite elven soul searcher to a hoard(swarm, whatever) of rats. Realistically though we don't do a lot of fighting, we have a very indepth story and could go for months without having to take up arms. (Which is amazing if you are into that kind of thing)

To purchase the rulebooks that would cover the rules we have created ourselves, we would probably need around ten rulebooks, 10*$30=$300 which is a real lot of money for a bunch of rules. There are things that I can better spend $300 on ... like paying back my loans for school. (I do have a subsription to Dungeon Magazine though)

I always thought the great thing about D&D is that you could do anything that your imagination could come up with. Rules are a limitation sometimes you just have to toss them out or redifine them.
Wiggett
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Posted: 12th Oct 2003 13:19
yweha i had my game last night.also got me some sex afterwards, oh, i can say the three letter s word here cant i? soz. anyway yeah i figured out the saves and some other things thanks to that table reference. tnx arrow. Yeah the gamewas fun for me,sorta :/ we rushed the end of it cause the constant rolling was annoying for the players. prolly my fault cause i made them have so many options, and they also complained when they did something stupid and i punished them for it, as in they bang on a door to try and open it instead of tryin to find out if its locke dor not, so when they pick the lock the guy inside was ready to shoot an arrow at them. the rogue managed to jump out of the way but the dwarf behind her nearly copped it in the head. and i also had to modify the baddies too, before they even got to the dungeon the dwarf (the strongest out fo the three of them) nearly died in one shot :/. my friend and my gf said they hade fun, her bro was a bit of a lout and sort of made it harder for me, but he was ok enough to not ruin the game.im just dissapointed that after all teh work i did in the intro trying to make it good so it connects with the whole campaign that they didnt really play it well enough to understand the intro story :/ which is silly cause if it was a computer gamelike baldurs gate they all would have played it seriously and picked up the story. but anyway we all had fun, now i have to work out experience, and the next aprt of the story.

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