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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Starting out

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Endorfin
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Posted: 6th Oct 2003 22:09
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Just started, any good starting tutorials and 3D or should I just study other people's source code?

~Safer
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CrewmanNumber7
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Posted: 6th Oct 2003 22:24
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There doesnt seem to be a whole lot of tutorials available for darkbasic beginners unless you want to by a book for like $40
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heartbone
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Posted: 6th Oct 2003 22:33 Edited at: 6th Oct 2003 22:34
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There are several tons of tutorials for DarkBASIC beginners.

There just aren't a lot of DB tutorials aimed at beginner B.A.S.I.C. programmers.

Better put, tutorials aimed at beginner procedural programmers (B.A.S.I.C. ~ FORTRAN ~ PASCAL ~ PL/1 ~ C all procedural, all "obsolete"). OO programming has warped the minds of an entire generation of computer programmers.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
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CrewmanNumber7
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 00:07
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pleases point me in the direction of the several tons of tutorials.
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BatVink
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 01:12
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http://developer.thegamecreators.com/?f=dbpro_tutorials

Please Rich, make these easier to find!!!

BatVink (formerly StevieVee)
http://facepaint.me.uk/catalog/default.php
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heartbone
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 06:51
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I like the ones that came with DarkBASIC v1.08 boxed version, the two disk set.

For Pro look here if you have a standard installation:

C:\Program Files\Dark Basic Software\Dark Basic Professional\Help\Examples

or

C:\Program Files\Dark Basic Software\Dark Basic Professional\Help\Tutorials

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 07:03
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(B.A.S.I.C. ~ FORTRAN ~ PASCAL ~ PL/1 ~ C all procedural, all "obsolete").

Pascal, Fortran and C are all still used heavily today...
Pascal's most used face is Delphi, might be more visual - but really its just Pascals version of Visual C++.

Codewarrior is reknown for being a C only platform, although they have added support for C++ - most primarily its used for Non-Windows and Game Console development, which use C only.
Fortran is still used very largely as a plugin for Intel's IA32-IA64 processors (Xeon/Itainium) and is available within Intel C++ 6.0/7.0

the best tutorials are really the DarkBASIC example/tutorials
if your download the trial version of that program as the languages are very close (but not identical) you can use them as a stepping stone.

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Endorfin
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 08:01
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I had one other question. Does C++ have any Internet capabilities such as creating a chat room or something of the manner? thanks.

~Safer
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 09:33
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i'd create a chatroom using more of a webbased language,
although possible in C++ that isn't what its designed for... you may wanna try Java

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Endorfin
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 21:01
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Well, I wasn't planning on creating a chat room with C++, was just wodnering why it was considered to be such a good language.

~Safer
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Mentor
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 21:25
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C++ ???? well...there`s the speed, and it`s fast, and it`s also very quick, and it`s so low level you can instruct your hard drive to destroy itself, or your monitor, or your motherboard, or your program may conceivably crash and do that any way.
You can do a lot rather quickly with DB, you can do an incomprehensible amount of stuff with C++ gobsmackingly fast, (anybody who says they understand ALL of C++ and the libs is a liar) THATS why it gets talked about a lot, lots of languages (like Java) where written in C++....DB Pro as well (with some inline assembler thrown in for good measure), C++ code is almost as fast as hand made assembler, and easier to code (just ).
In most cases a middling good C++ coder can write faster code than a good assembler coder, in almost all cases there will not be anything to chose between code written in assembler by a hardcore coder and a profficient C++ coder, so in most cases C++ is the winner for speed and ease of use, makes it rather popular as you can guess (that and "they" wrote Doom, Descent, Halflife, Unreal, QuakeIII, Doom III, Windows, Word and almost any game or app you can think of in C or C++), hope that explains it.
naturaly there is a catch, to get good at C++ (good enough to make a full game) takes years, you can make your first db game in a week or less, in C++ you would be lucky to get directx initialised properly and showing a cube, thats why DB is popular.

Cheers
Mentor.
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Endorfin
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 21:48
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Wow, that helps alot. Anywhere that would explain all of this in depth? I have read quite a few tutorials on C++ via Internet but they never seem to go too far into it. Doesn't explain it enough. I read about 3D engines and stuff like that but I didn't really understand it. Anything helpful would be great.

I'm kind of looking forward to coding 3D in C++, but I just can't seem to grasp the concept of the matter. Thanks for anything.

~Safer
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Endorfin
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 21:49
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Oh yeah, and I had another question. Would I want to be using DirectX or OpenGL? I heard OpenGL was strictly for graphics and you had to incorporate DirectX in for sounds and musical items. Is that true? If it is, would it be better to just use DirectX or use OpenGL combined with DirectX?

~Safer
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Sonic
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 04:22
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DX has libraries for graphics, sound, input, network ... OGL just does graphics but can be ported to other OS's (DX is Windows/XBOX ONLY). It's normal for OGL windows apps to "borrow" stuff from DX like DirectInput and DirectSound.

Its admirable that you wish to "learn it all" but IMHO you are heading for a world of hurt if you are trying to dive straight into learning C/C++, Win32 API, DirectX and 3D programing all-in-one. How much free time have you got?

DB is cool because it abstracts everything out so much you don't have to think how it's achieved (Load Object "model.x", 1: YROTATE object 1, 45) is hardly the same as setting up windows with a message processing loop, setting up DirectX, sorting out your DX surfaces and a mesh loader, texture managment, matrix math would run to hundreds of lines. With DB you can think about how your game plays rather than worrying about the engine and framework.

Having said that, DX9 and the .NET framework could ease some pain and if you could learn to put together your own classes to abstract out the complexities of it then you'd have an engine you could use and get results just as fast as you could in DB (or faster as it's your own design). Plus have the satisfaction of doing it.

This has all been done by others before of course (so the words "wheel" and "re-invent" come to mind) and many freeware/shareware engines exist that do just that, for example in PowerRender you can get something decent onto the screen using C++ with only a couple of screens of code, well, depending on your screen res Plus it comes with a (working?) toolset for BSPs and terrain.

Which way you go is up to you but it would be a shame to have your enthusiasm knocked out of you by lack of results in a reasonable time-frame.

"My ignorance amuses me..."
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Endorfin
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 21:38
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To answer your free-time question, I have all day everyday to pretty much, do whatever I want. So I usually write music and sit in front of the computer. I agree with you about the wanting to "learn it all", but that's just how I am am. That's the reason for this post in the first place. A starting point.

Since the XBOX is by Microsoft and according to you, uses DX, would it then be possible, using DBP to create a Game/Program/Etc.. then format it to run on the XBOX?

I am getting an XBOX system in about a month or so, so it would be helpful to know that.

Yes, I suppose it would be a shame. I am used to long-term results but it's still a possibility.

The reason I have so much free-time is because I don't have a job yet. I'm 14 years old so I have plenty of time to do whatever.

One more question, what are BSPs?

~Safer
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Oct 2003 23:02
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Quote: "Since the XBOX is by Microsoft and according to you, uses DX, would it then be possible, using DBP to create a Game/Program/Etc.. then format it to run on the XBOX?"

No, its not possible.


Avatar & Logo by Indi. Insert witty comment here...
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Endorfin
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Posted: 9th Oct 2003 05:53
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Why not?

In silence, lies power
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