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Work in Progress / Fallout's INDI RPG Project

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Fallout
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Posted: 19th Jan 2011 13:35


Ok, I felt it was time to make a WIP about this project. Firstly (and unfortunately), this project is currently on hold. I'm now working full time on games and apps, and currently my efforts are in the Android market. However, I intend to finish my first app by the end of March. I'll then be making a decision on which way to go next, based on success with Android.

I do think there is money to be made creating a series of single player RPG games using this engine though. The aim is to appeal to the hardcore RPG players out there, rather than the mainstream, and make modest money, rather than big bucks. No delusions of grandeur here. Just a steady earner to supplement income, while getting to make my own RPG series.

So the aim of this thread is two fold. One, I don't want all my hard work to sit on my HD doing nothing and never being seen by anyone, and two, I want to rouse interest in a person that may want to help. Specifically, I want to team up with a single artist with great modelling/animation/texturing skills, who can concentrate on making the visual world well I make the game mechanics.

But anyway onto the game ....

Here are a few screenies that I post on the forum a while back while testing the visual concept, and seeing how people felt about it (i.e. does this look good enough to sell as a budget game to a small audience).





As you can see, the game will be a Dungeon Siege/Diablo type perspective. However, unlike those games, the control mechanism with my more FPS oriented, rather than point and click.

After this I started development on the world editor:



This is a tile based mesh system, with sculptable seemless tiles and textures, blending textures, foliage with animation, water, interactive entities, paths, lightmapping etc. You can create quite good looking worlds quite quickly, which can be extended with new meshes and prefabs, objects, textures. While the editor looks basic, it's quite powerful, though still unfinished.

Then I moved onto the animation and armour system:



Using Ron's Enhanced Animations, I've got some good movement and animation potential in here. The armour system allows several layers of clothing attachments and armour pieces which can be knocked off and destroyed in realtime.

Here is the video blog I started a while back on YouTube, which gives more detail.

Proof of Concept


World Editor 1


World Editor 2


Character System



That's it for now. Let me know what you think about the progress so far. If you have any interest in working with my on the project, or any business related advice or comments, give me a shout too. As I said, I hope to be returning to this in March, if all goes badly with Android.

mr_d
DBPro Tool Maker
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Posted: 19th Jan 2011 14:31
very impressive
I especially like your character animation and clothing/armour system - looks like you've put a lot of thought into it and have gotten it to a near final stage in regards to mechanics etc.
Diablo (1 and 2) were my favorite RPG games, so if you can put some of the same magic into your game, then this should turn out brilliantly.

(\___/)
(='.'=) Copy bunny into your signature to
("_(" help him gain world domination.
dark coder
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Posted: 19th Jan 2011 15:26
Looks great, the one boot thing is an awesome idea!

How large will the maps be? Will they be square shaped with instant teleporting at the borders, or random sized with portals at each end? or something else?

And show us the latest pics! I've got some ideas on stuff for you to visually tweak, but I'm not sure if what I'm looking at is the latest or not.

Fallout
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Posted: 19th Jan 2011 15:29 Edited at: 19th Jan 2011 15:33
Same here mr_d. I've always enjoyed Diablo style RPGs the most too. I've got some cool ideas for the magic system, but haven't got anywhere near developing that yet. But as far as 'gameplay magic' goes, I will definitely try and put something special in there. I'm going to avoid the usual hack'n'slash and put skill based combat in there, without making it too tricky to master. Then I'm going to put a lot of work into the story. I may team up with someone who enjoys story writing and fancies helping me craft the lore and plot for the world.

Lots of possibilities. I'm looking forward to return to this later on.

Edit:
@dark coder

I haven't decided how maps will change yet. I could make them infinite, since the tiles can be recycled, and then keep repositioning back at the origin when I get too far away for good floating point precision. However, I'm not too fussed about adding that kind of feature, since with this kind of lower-end RPG, I don't think people will mind portals and short loading screens.

As for the visuals, they haven't moved on since those screenies and videos. The last work I did on the game was on the animation system. At the moment I'm happy enough with the visuals for now, and will want to return to all the other game mechanics before revisiting the visuals and polishing them up. If you've got any suggestions though, feel free!

dark coder
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Posted: 20th Jan 2011 08:35
Quote: "If you've got any suggestions though, feel free!"


OK! You're currently pre-calculating the shadows from the trees and such, because of this, you have no excuse to not go overboard on the calculations to make them look better. Right now, it looks like you're doing one raycast per vertex and if it hits anything then you change the diffuse, you should really do multiple casts in different directions, giving you some form of AO. You could even calculate the depth of intersection through the trees because the canopy isn't exactly completely opaque.

Also, in addition to changing the colours due to the shadows, you can also add some colour variation to the terrain with no overhead, that would make the flat areas look slightly better.

And those shrubs still really stick out from the ground, you could maybe use your decal system to give them detailed shadows, same for the player and other small items. After that, you could work on the transition between tree trunk and ground, the current solid divide between the two really shows that there's no detail on the grass, if there was some type of smooth blending there then the noise from the grass texture would help conceal that, combined with some type of effect where dust kicks up as the player runs would also go a long way to hiding the fact the ground is flat.

Take a look at the river bank, you have a nice transition texture between the soil and grass that almost hides the edge, if that was chamfered a little bit more then it would look even better.

Fallout
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Posted: 20th Jan 2011 11:13
Thanks for your suggestions dc.

Regarding vertex lighting. The landscape is mega low poly. I don't think it's very obvious in the screenies how low poly the tiles are. So the vertex ray casting does use multiple rays for tree canopies and then takes an average and lights accordingly. Its just not so obvious because of the blocky nature of vertex shadows on low poly landscapes. However, I definitely think some sort of canopy translucency is a good idea, plus some landscape colour variation with the vertex lighting. Good suggestions!

Using the 'decal system' for shadows may be possible, but it's not as complex as it may seem. All objects like blending tiles and path ways adhere to a strict rule for mesh format. (i.e. they all essentially use the same mesh, but with bits cut out for efficiency, and different textures, which then have the verticies height adjusted to they fit ontop of each other). However, I could achieve a shadow system for plants by placing a decal type mesh near the shrub, and then scrolling the UV of the shadow texture. Hmmm ... not a bad idea! The same could work for the player, although the shadow would not be that accurate, and would not cast onto objects that weren't part of the terrain. Still, definitely worth thinking about. Good suggestion again.

As for the tree trunk transition, yep, it's not great. I planned on resolving this by simply placing foliage around most trees, however I may just make a few texture variations which have different textures at the bottom matching different ground textures. One to add to the list.

Thanks for your suggestions matey. The shadow ones especially may have to be implemented somehow. I do think shadows are mega important.

baxslash
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Posted: 20th Jan 2011 14:31
This is excellent work! I really look forward to watching this progress.

Subscribing to your youtube channel!

Fallout
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Posted: 20th Jan 2011 14:44
Thanks baxslash. Subscribing will get you more updates about Space Squadron for the time being, but when I get back to this (hopefully in March), then the RPG blog will continue.

Ermes
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Posted: 20th Jan 2011 16:49
well, i haven't undestand nothing about vertex lighting, shaders, shadows, decals, and this make me really sad because i would like to make a game with great grounds with hills, trees, flowers, rocks, .... etc etc.

i can only say this project is really amazing.



[img][/img]
Ashingda 27
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Posted: 21st Jan 2011 16:03
I'm amazed, very nice progress. That map editor is really well made.

Link102
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Posted: 21st Jan 2011 19:59
To bad this forum doesn't have a system that allows you to track topics (or your own posts), because I would definitely set this topic on my list.

Matty H
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2011 00:47
This is awesome, very professional.

Do you make a living off indie game development? No need to answer that if it's a little intrusive. I would love to think maybe I could in a couple of years when I have more experience but I always presumed I would need a couple of fingers in a couple of other pies.

Good luck with this and your other projects.

Fallout
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2011 11:52
@Matty - I don't make a living from it yet, but I'm having a go at it. I'm working full time on it at the moment, and seeing how it pans out. My first game is for Android and will hopefully be finished in the next couple of months.

@Link102 - If you subscribe to my YouTube channel, you'll be sure to get updates from that at least when the project gets going again.

Thanks to the others for the kind comments. I'm looking forward to getting back on this project soon.

Ermes
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Posted: 24th Jan 2011 18:37
Quote: "To bad this forum doesn't have a system that allows you to track topics (or your own posts), because I would definitely set this topic on my list.
"


100% true.



[img][/img]
dark coder
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 04:48 Edited at: 26th Jan 2011 04:48
You Can, just tick this and post:



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Link102
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 15:38
yes, but a solution without the spam would be better.

-back on topic

The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 22:32
Your toolset and visuals reminds me very much of the Aurora toolset in Neverwinter Nights, possibly one of the best RPGs I've played!

Inspire
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 23:13
This is awesome. Very professional work my friend.

AmbulanceGames
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Posted: 27th Jan 2011 09:50
I'm impressed.
Fallout
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Posted: 27th Jan 2011 13:10
Thanks guys. The question is, do we still think there is a market for indi games of this ilk? How big is the market of hardcore RPG players who aren't fussed about AAA graphics and care more about the game play?

Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 27th Jan 2011 18:14 Edited at: 27th Jan 2011 18:30
Quote: "The question is, do we still think there is a market for indi games of this ilk? How big is the market of hardcore RPG players who aren't fussed about AAA graphics and care more about the game play?"


Well that's an interesting question. I'd think that most people don't care that much about graphics (take Minecraft, for example). As long as you've got a) a compelling story or b) enough addictive elements, and you start confronting the player with these as soon as possible within the game - or a demo - there should always be enough players. OK, this might be a bit optimistic, but I still think there's nothing to worry as long as you keep the potential problem in mind.

Oh, and another thing - if you want to earn money with your project, you might consider using Youtube as viral marketing accelerator. Just some examples..

The Creature

The just released Magicka

Well, I can't find more atm, but you might get the idea. Even though these games are comparably casual, it might help you to create an original trailer, simply to let people know about its existence. I, for instance, sent the The Creature-trailer to several of my friends even though I never had the intention to play the game, simply because the trailer was so funny. Anyway - if I'm not mistaken, you're not far enough yet to really think about trailers and all that, but it might become an option later.

_Pauli_
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Posted: 27th Jan 2011 22:54 Edited at: 27th Jan 2011 22:57
That The Creature trailer is pure awesomeness!

BTW Nice project Fallout, looks very promising!

Now the plot thickens, the fps decreases, and the awesomeness goes through the roof.
ThoughtWire Software
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 22:05 Edited at: 4th Feb 2011 22:06
Quote: "Thanks guys. The question is, do we still think there is a market for indi games of this ilk? How big is the market of hardcore RPG players who aren't fussed about AAA graphics and care more about the game play?"


Well, in my opinion. This gameplay idea is an old one that has only really been re-visited in high budget games like Dragon Age (one of the downsides of dragon age being the annoying click to move and attack system so in that aspect I think your game will have a better movement system). I think the fact that this is an indie game will allow you to experiment in ways a high budget game wouldn't dare; like involving a whole new style of gameplay. If you can avoid making a game based on the same ideas as similar games and more on newer gameplay styles you could end up with a game that is succesfull for the same reasons as games like Minecraft. This is one of the main reasons why Portal was such a successful game.

I'm sorry I can't be so helpful as to give you some amazing new gameplay style nobody has thought of, or even an aspect that would set this game aside from the mainstream ones. But if you can make such a game I imagine it would have a rightful place in the steam Indie section.

Also, Mr Kohlenstoff is correct in saying a viral advert can defiantly make or break your game! I'm going to stop typing now as I fear I am rambling. If any of this didn't make sense, sorry!

Hope your game goes well, I'll be keeping my eye on it.

ThoughtWire Software -

www.thoughtwire.co.uk
Fallout
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Posted: 5th Feb 2011 12:36
Quote: "If you can avoid making a game based on the same ideas as similar games and more on newer gameplay styles you could end up with a game that is succesfull for the same reasons as games like Minecraft"


A very true comment and I totally agree. I don't see the point in making games that are rehashes of all formulas. That's for the big companies to do so they can suck in the mainstream audiences. I've got lots of ideas for unique magic systems and combat, and hopefully if I can combine that with decent enough graphics and a well written story.

That's well pointed out though. I'll definitely make the gameplay uniqueness the top priority.

Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 5th Feb 2011 17:05 Edited at: 5th Feb 2011 17:06
Quote: "I've got lots of ideas for unique magic systems and combat, and hopefully if I can combine that with decent enough graphics and a well written story."


As long as you keep the combat system accessible enough, that's certainly a good idea.

About the story - have you played Braid? I'm not through yet, but from what I've seen, it uses a quite unique approach in story telling. You get to know the character's motivation by reading some textsigns at the beginning of each level. While that probably sounds boring and uninspired, it proved to be pretty effective and atmospheric, at least in my case. World of Goo worked somewhat similar, there was not really a story but every level contained several textsigns as well, which were usually either confusing, funny or philosophical.

What I'm aiming at is that the story itself is important for sure, but how you tell the story is a completely different, yet similarly important question.
In most RPGs the story is told through NPCs and huge walls of text. Sometimes short script sequences. I don't know how this concept can be improved, but I bet it's worth to invest some time and brain into that topic.

Drillfoot
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Posted: 6th Feb 2011 19:27
This is looking good man! Very professional development, and I can tell a lot of time and effort has been given to this project! I think you will do good. I think for re-playability purposes, RPG games lack a 'crafting system'. The ability to make your own armor, clothes, weapons and so on can keep you busy in RPG's if you don't feel like story line grinding, or just love the game; but want a break.

This looks very good, and I will for sure be following it's progress!

rem allow user create game with one click
rem create graphics, sound, scripts, models, with one click
rem slap user in face if game choice is mmo
ThoughtWire Software
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2011 13:01
Any more news on this game Fallout?

ThoughtWire Software -

www.thoughtwire.co.uk
Fallout
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2011 15:39
Progressing with Android dev at the moment. I have my first game finished and it'll be on the market in the next few days. I'm already designing my second. This project is going to remain my back-up plan, if the Android thing doesn't work for me. So I'm keeping the source code at my finger tips, but won't be doing any more work on it for at least a month or two.

Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2011 15:49
That's a shame. Still, good luck with your Android projects, even though I'd really like to see where the RPG goes. I expect news in one or two months then!

The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 25th Feb 2011 12:35
May I ask you how you achieved your water effects? The river in your PoC video looks really nice.

Fallout
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Posted: 25th Feb 2011 16:53
Just an animated texture. I actually just went onto youtube, googled "flowing river" found a good vid, ripped it, took 30 frames and made it seamless. Then it's just alpha blended so it's slightly transparent. I think a good shader would look much better, but this is cheap and fast.

The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 25th Feb 2011 19:18
Wow, from the angle in the video it looks brilliant, I never would have guess it didn't use shaders.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 25th Feb 2011 22:42
Great, GREAT work, am excited to see when this picks up

I could go on about all sorts of tangents, but yeah. Very cool

Will be watching this, march is coming up!


A Web Comic Graphic Novel!
Fallout
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Posted: 26th Feb 2011 17:55
Thanks mate. Can't promise I won't repost at the end of march and say it's further delayed though! Still pursuing this Android thing. If that proves lucrative, I'll be sticking with that for a little while. I do want to work on this though!

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