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3 Dimensional Chat / Level Creation, how should it all work when using Blender and DBPro?

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AutoBot
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2011 21:55 Edited at: 22nd Jan 2011 22:36
Hey guys, it's been a while since I've been to this board. Seems like forever.

One of my goals is to find a fairly easy strategy to make game worlds by using Blender and DBPro together. My only trouble is that I'm not all that sure where to start! I can create the structure of the said level pretty well, but I'm wondering if the whole static level should be completely interconnected by vertices, or if I can let it slide and mix and match separate static components.

My other concern is finding an efficient way to manage textures. Say that you have a terrain that uses two textures, a grass texture and dirt texture, and you want to create a path. Well, that path may very well be a long one! And who wants to create a 4096x4096 texture for that, eh? There's gotta be a more efficient way to manage this, especially since games like Rareware's N64 titles make it look so easy (and you know how much RAM an N64 has). Could I use a dirt 256p texture and grass 256p texture along with some sort of file to map these together onto, say, a matrix/plane efficiently? This basically goes along with my concern of generally blending textures onto an object without getting those 4096p files. You could think of Age of Mythology's map editor as a good example of this. It uses fairly small textures and allows the user to use a brush to "paint" the textures right on the terrain!

My intention is not to present one of those noobish "HOWZ DO ai creAtez level?" threads or "book? i hate book! book is stupid!" thread, and I apologize if that's what this looks like, I just need some guidance as to how exactly to go about doing this. I know that it's possible to make some sort of game engine with it's own resource manager and metadata files to convert and present the models at blindingly fast speeds (which is actually one inspiration I have as an indie developer), but I really want to give DBPro a chance and use it as some sort of new hobby.

Here's some pictures to show what I mean:




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AutoBot
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Posted: 24th Jan 2011 16:57 Edited at: 24th Jan 2011 17:02
Heh, I guess I'm not the only one that doesn't know how to go about doing this (1 post, 50 views ). I did find out about vertex texture painting, which looks like how the AoM map editor works (they probably just use a custom blending technique). After that they just add different texture layers, add lightmapping, etc.
I really need to look through the blender docs. Seems to be the only way to learn how this is done.
My basic intention is just to blend repeating textures together, shouldn't be too hard.
...right?!


Link102
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Posted: 25th Jan 2011 11:44 Edited at: 25th Jan 2011 11:45
Not sure if blender texture paint is the answer, but some sort of vertex weight system could do the job.

I guess if you use a blend map along with a shader you'd get the best results (better than vertex weighting), but don't ask me where to get the shader o.o

AutoBot
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 03:57 Edited at: 26th Jan 2011 04:01
Yeah, out of a little research I found that somehow shaders can be used for this (and pretty much everything else). Don't ask me how to program shaders, though. Still need to learn...
And I think texture paint still paints it on to a UV map, which can get fairly large (even with the small textures).

Still not sure how Ensemble got their interactive textures going, though. Probably some sort of dynamic blend map (which I don't know how in the world DBPro could implement that).


PrimalBeans
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 04:18 Edited at: 26th Jan 2011 04:21
I know this might not be what your going for but ive been working using texture sheets to create map pieces. (So this wouldnt be what you would use for generated terra... Anyway what i do is i create a basic tileable texture and add it to a sheet. Then i create whatever other textures i need to trasition to other texture maps... (rock to grass... grass to sand... tileable variations of each...etc....) And load them on to the same sheet. When i start to model i create a small panel and apply the portions of texture to the panel that apply with uv cords... then from there i duplicate the pannel add variation to the mesh so that it doesnt look completely duplicate and weld it to the original. I reapeat the process over and over while building a level. When i do it on a sheet its possible for me to have all my testures in one spot and adjust them as i need to make sure that im getting the best result possible. Another cool thing about this is that your textures dont need to be the size of the map because your reausing the same portion of images on multiple parts of the map... So basically your creating a tiled texture system thats aplied to a uv system. If you would like to see more of what im talking about i could post some images tomarrow maybe.

edit... actually that got me thinking as to how this could be used to create terrain using a tilable mesh set...

Van B
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 15:50
Sorry about the self promotion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rndPdaTClJ8

I made Tersculpt specifically for RTS games, feel free to pick it to bits, make it into your own custom editor, or just use it to figure out the shaders. You can find Tersculpt in program announcements.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Quik
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 17:32
cant see the video Van B, it has content from Sonic Music Entertainment =/


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 22:32 Edited at: 26th Jan 2011 22:35
@Van B - Awesome, that editor looks like EXACTLY what I'm talking about, can't wait to get a look at the code.

@Quik - Seems to work fine for me.

@PrimalBeans - I could definately see that working for terrain editing and so forth. It's sort of a trade off as you can use the resources on the shader, or on the extra media for texture transitions. Feel free to post some screenies of what you have.

Still, it makes me wonder how N64 games can get that type of texture effect without UV mapping (since I'm sure N64 shader effects are rare). Maybe they don't, guess they had to UV map it back then. Least things are different now.


PrimalBeans
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 22:39
I'll post some stuff up tomarrow... im at work and forgot my flash drive... (and about half the other stuff i needed today.) I have a memory only slightly more useful than a goldfish does.. and honestly most the time im pretty much floating by with my head up my....
Anyway ill write myself a note and bring some stuff in...

AutoBot
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Posted: 26th Jan 2011 22:43 Edited at: 26th Jan 2011 22:49
Quote: "I have a memory only slightly more useful than a goldfish does.. "

Same here.


PrimalBeans
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Posted: 28th Jan 2011 02:26 Edited at: 28th Jan 2011 02:29
so heres what i was talking about:



This is the texture set i whipped up... nothing special and definately not perfet... i just wanted to show you what i was talking about...

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PrimalBeans
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Posted: 28th Jan 2011 02:32
Anyway what i do to create a map is i start out with one plane... uv map it and unwrap. Then i place it over the tile that i want. from there i duplicate it... weld it to the other and select a new texture from my sheet. And repeat and repeat and repeat....this sounds tedious but in actuality its not so bad. Once i have a whole chunk I duplicate that whole chunk and weld it and the map exponetiall grows... here are some screenies to help you understand what i mean:

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PrimalBeans
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Posted: 28th Jan 2011 02:43
and another with the wireframe on. Basically this is a quick 15min deal i did to show you.(hence the poor uv alignment and the so so textures.) And in reality each texture is only a 300px sqr. The advantage to this is you only need one snippet of the texture and the map can be as big as you like. The sheet gets big when you add in varied tiles (which is something that i didnt do) and use larger textures in your sheet.. (I would recomment so that your map doesnt look like legos..) but it will be much less then if you were to do one solid texture on your map... and much easier to add to later when you need new peices. Once i mesh set up its possible to do quick editing with blenders sculpt tool grab and shift stuff around to make it dynamic. Obviously what the screen shot shows isnt that dynamic or detailed but with larger texture chunks and more mesh detail i should be possible to create a foundation. From there you can liven it up with props (Rocks, trees, bushes, grass...Things that can be duplicated modified and make a more natural sceen.)

Link102
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Posted: 28th Jan 2011 17:12 Edited at: 28th Jan 2011 17:17
*sorry about this post, please ignore it*

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