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Game Design Theory / The assassins creed climbing system??

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The Zoq2
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Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posted: 27th Jan 2011 23:26
Hi ever since i started playing assassins creed i have been wondering how they made the climbibg animations. I don't think it is just a bunch of animations because they allways hit holes and stuff with absolute accurasy. I have never seen the characters arm/legs hit somethnig during climbing. How do you think the system works??

Please note im not trying to make a game like assassins creed, im just curious about how they made the climing and animations so perfect.

Srry about my english im from sweeden
Design Runner
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Posted: 28th Jan 2011 00:15
Lots of tough programming. And then a very good 3d animator.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 28th Jan 2011 16:16
Yes but if it's just animations it would be realy har to hit holes and stuff

Srry about my english im from sweeden
heyufool1
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Posted: 28th Jan 2011 20:32 Edited at: 28th Jan 2011 20:34
What I'm guessing they do, or something that is reasonable for a non pro developer to do is this:

1. Move to a wall
2. When at the wall scan in a circle with a given radius to find all possible climbing points. The points could be simple entities that you drag in to signify a point or you could use an algorithm to test the depth of flat surface on the climbing point (depth of the top of a brick for example).
3. Decide on the best choice based on height of player, distance from points, etc.
4. Have a few basic animations for general climbs like one for going straight up, up and to the right, up and to the left, down and to the left, etc.
5. Pick an animation that is closest to matching the point and then move the limbs around to match the point, starting from the hand down to the shoulders.

Hopefully you understand what I mean with those steps I think something like that could work. Theirs is most definitely much more complex though.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 28th Jan 2011 23:26
That sounds right, but it would require a LOT of animations

Srry about my english im from sweeden
PrimalBeans
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Posted: 29th Jan 2011 00:37
I believe its just a magic trick.... LOL. I have assasins creed on ps3 and from playing it a bunch i can tell you that for the running and jumping parts of it its kind of an "on rails" type of of system in some ways. Level creation plays into it alot too... if you notice your not always climbing the same things but the items are still place logically enough to use repeated animations and only have to adjust character position and translation direction. One thing that alot of games use is interruptable animation. Such and such action is being performed... this action breaks it etc. (You see it alot in fighting games especially.) Using tweening code your software can fill in the blank translations and rotations of bones to give smooth movement. Now when i say "on rails" im not refering to the player being locked in to a motion i mean that paths are predefined before hand and have appropriate intersections etc. I think this added with animation timers tweening and a variety of animations is how its acomplished. Like prince of persia (By the same company) there is an automated aspect to the game play that removes the pain of percision controls but doesnt kill the interactivity and freedom of the player. That fine balance makes it usable and playable at the same time.

Libervurto
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Posted: 29th Jan 2011 12:41
This thread should interest you: Procedural Walker
I believe it uses similar principles to Assassin's Creed.


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Blobby 101
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Posted: 29th Jan 2011 19:11
Yeah, In AssCreed, all the holes and things are placed in an even pattern, so the animation always hits the right place, not as complicated to program as you might think, but hell to get working accurately in the first place xD

BMacZero
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Posted: 9th Feb 2011 18:03
Assassin's Creed uses Havok, which has a nice bone animation system with inverse kinematics that would let them do this on the fly. Look up videos on Havok Animation and Euphoria. Really cool stuff.

MrValentine
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 05:31 Edited at: 11th Feb 2011 05:35
urm whats that thing called... oh yeah ahh yes Motion Capture the thing with the little white table tennis looking balls... I am surprised no one remembers this... I am just forgetting because right now at 04:30am I am hungry going to eat after I post this...

You should look for the Developer Videos on their web-site or on YT and see it in detail, their official web-site should still have the full "making of" video, I saw it about 7 months ago.

Do not forget about Lara ^^ (looks at boo**es >> She has been doing it for years, with UNDERWORLD not being an exception.

EDIT - oh yeah nearly forgot, they created their own version of 3DMAX I believe to incorporate the climbing connection points on the buildings and environment, really funky and complicated stuff... you will 100% need to create your own engine for this. and then rent out a motion capture studio... circa £15k a day lol good luck (read that somewhere, they rent the whole studio for a day for that rate average. Looks at wallet in disgust O.O )

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Van B
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 12:09
I think that it could only be some fairly complex animations and preset geometry. For example, they might make a window ledge on a wall, and animate the character on that directly, so it's perfect. Then the window ledges are based on that window ledge, so the character can be animated perfectly. I think they must have seperate animations for all the ledge hangs.

I don't think it could be dynamic, like checking hand locations etc etc - it would be an absolute nightmare to debug, and we'd see bugs - instead we see perfect climbing animations, but only where the level designers allow.

For us hobbyists, that's kinda a stretch of our abilities - really you'd need to write your own animation system, so that you could have test geometry and have real control over the animation. That's what I'd do anyway, so rather than the animation being based on a scene, it would be based on the characters position in relation to set geometry - that way your free running character could interpolate into the required animations for climbing etc. Would take a lot of work, but would be a lot of fun to work on as well. To be honest, I don't like the process of animating characters for games, trying to work out a walk cycle with no physics, no moving floor, no gravity, and just linear animations.
We don't really see improvements that often.

Imagine for a second, if characters could react with their environments properly - in GTA4, characters barge through doors, how cool would it be to have them open doors properly, or hang onto lamp posts when drunk, or trip over a kerb, or pick up and use a phone properly. Would be the next level of interaction. GTA4 does a great job already with it's dynamic animations, but we just can't do without traditional animation for the more complex actions.

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warstormed
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 07:14
i think that it is more of a waypoint system. when you climb something, or walk on something narrow, it keeps you from varying the exact location. It does this so you dont fall, and it looks flawless. you notice you never walk a little to the left or right of edges. It is always centered.

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Van B
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2011 15:11
Nah...
That's just unfeasible - the animation of jumping up, grabbing and climbing on a roof will be the same every time. I would expect that when in motion, the area in front of the player is checked for climbable surfaces, and the most appropriate one is chosen, then it goes into a preset animation (but with adjustments for exact position). Theres 1200 character animations, so that tells me that it's a mixture of motion capture, and traditional frame by frame animations, but with procedural transitions to keep it all smooth.

I think that they would decide which animation to use for the geometry and how best to get the character lined up and in the right stance for the first frame.

There is no other way to do it - the character puts his feet and hands in the exact right locations, this could only be done with animation with actual game geometry. A lot of that would be keyframe animated, or adjusted mocap... Like mocap someone jumping and grabbing a ledge and climbing up - then take that and edit the keyframes and position to suit the game geometry. I'm sure that's the only way they could get it so neat.

I'm not knocking the waypoint idea, for things like balancing on lines it's great - I used the technique myself and it works a treat - it's just not enough for the climbing stuff.

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Wyldhunt
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Posted: 8th Mar 2011 11:53 Edited at: 8th Mar 2011 16:09
Here. These links may explain a bit more about Kinematics and how they work with context sensitive animations. You start with a base animation, and then modify them on the fly as needed for a more precise fit. None of this is for DBP, but you might be able to do something similar with a bit of work and a custom dll.
http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/UsingSkeletalControllers.html

http://www.vitechnologies.ca/Company.htm
Red Eye
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Posted: 8th Mar 2011 15:39
Quote: "AssCreed"


Lol, really?

Digital Awakening
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Posted: 9th Mar 2011 23:48
I guess none of you have tried a 3D animation program with inverse kinematics? I think BMacZero got it right. With IK you set up a bone structure, specify how each bone can rotate and just move the end point of a chain instead of rotating each bone manually. This is old stuff for 3D animation software, they also do this in real time. And if you got an engine with IK then it shouldn't be hard to achieve this.

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Van B
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Posted: 14th Mar 2011 18:37
Quote: "Theres 1200 character animations"


I guess none of you have actually played AssCreed!

Check out this interview with the lead animator...



Procedural transitions, but mostly mocap and hand animated characters. It works exactly like I said it does. Anyone else still think it's all IK magic?

No, it's hard work, but at least it's feasible in DBPro.

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