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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Radeon 9800 Pro really rocks with DBPro...

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Velorien
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 14:02
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Quote: "only a newbie programmer would come back with something like this.
honestly you make me wonder very very hard, sure you can just add a single command line for the ATI card ... wonderful - but by using it you've just cut your title off from 75% of the gaming public.
Way to go einstein "


Now you sound like a newbie programmer. What, you think that you can't turn off truform support or check if the card supports truform? You make a decent looking game that looks even better on ATI cards and you attract Ati card owners more with that feature.

You misunderstood me, you can apply TRUFORM to all 3d games today, even the ones from 1999.

I will put some pictures of truform in action on my site so you can see what truform does for games with no preformance drop (with tesselation 3 or 4, i'll have to look)

Quote: "The processor speed is taken away from the overall speed to come up with the 3D speed, so it is more or less independant - which goes to prove that i'm running a slower FX5200 than most (probably due to only having 64mb ram rather than 128mb) ... and yet it still is capable of keeping up with a top end Radeon in dbp
"
That's not true, processor speed is important in 3d mark. Even if it isn't, my radeon 9100 64 mb ram has 7200 3d marks in 2001SE, and 1010 in 3d mark 2003 . And it's "only" measly DX8.1 card. Ain't that a kick in the arse, mate???
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Shadow Robert
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 16th Oct 2003 15:36
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Quote: "Now you sound like a newbie programmer. What, you think that you can't turn off truform support or check if the card supports truform? You make a decent looking game that looks even better on ATI cards and you attract Ati card owners more with that feature.

You misunderstood me, you can apply TRUFORM to all 3d games today, even the ones from 1999.

I will put some pictures of truform in action on my site so you can see what truform does for games with no preformance drop (with tesselation 3 or 4, i'll have to look)"


LMFAO!!! ... No performance hit, i take it your looking at the Imaginary FPS rating that you place in the corner.
I'd strongly suggest you run Unreal Tounament 2003, the Radeons run FAR FAR faster using the standard Dx8.1 TnL B-Patch - we're talking in the region of 40fps faster!
another test for you, try it with
a) pixel shaders
b) vertex shaders
c) post-processing pixel shaders
d) FSAA

Quote: "That's not true, processor speed is important in 3d mark. Even if it isn't, my radeon 9100 64 mb ram has 7200 3d marks in 2001SE, and 1010 in 3d mark 2003 . And it's "only" measly DX8.1 card. Ain't that a kick in the arse, mate??? "

nope processor isn't too important in the final score... and as for your 9100 which Cat drivers you using?
i have $50 that it was Cat 3.6 or above, in which case you can't even compare cause the card is being overclocked

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Velorien
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 19:44
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I'm using Omega 2.4.74 drivers (3.6) and they say that my card runs at 250/366 MHz but other cards run at 250/400. So that means that my card is slower than others but it still beats yours
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Velorien
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 19:51
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Another advantage: ATI cards support 16x anisotropic filtering
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Velorien
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 21:00
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http://dimenzije.topcities.com/ativsnvidia.htm

Beware: Large pictures over 500 KB (forgot to optimize them )
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WOLFY
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 22:47
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*sigh*
Well, at least we know where Baghdad Bob (the Iraqi infomation minister) is. He is working for NVidia and now goes by the name of Raven.

WOLF

HOOOWWWLLL!!!
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Shadow Robert
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 17th Oct 2003 06:24
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Quote: "ATI cards support 16x anisotropic filtering"


lmao, oh yeah thats some amazingly cool feature they have over the FX ... AF16x - what a pointless update that is, apart from the fact that the FX get no performance loss from AF8x apart from in titles that don't support it (and then it jump into software mode).
but that said, anything over 6x and you really can't see or tell the difference, especially at the Trilinear level.
Hell i bet you can't even tell the difference between 4x and 8x - just show off pictures of them

i know i can't without studying them, and i'm not afriad to admit it either

Quote: "I'm using Omega 2.4.74 drivers (3.6) and they say that my card runs at 250/366 MHz but other cards run at 250/400. So that means that my card is slower than others but it still beats yours "

the Omega drivers are infamously faster, and i'll bet you $50 that your card is running FASTER within a DirectX or OpenGL program.
250mhz desktop speed, booster to 300mhz gaming... nVidia has the same thing possible without the drivers doing it for you, but everything over 3.6 has it automatic when you start a game - it overclocks to the safest value.
As for the memory mhz... that only makes a difference if your motherboard is running the same.

Considering mine is running a 200mhz FSB, really it makes no odds, especially as the AGP is 4x and my ram is 133mhz. The whole damn system is mismatched... and for your card to only just be beating mine kinda makes it a joke in itself doesn't it

would be interested to see what score you'd get with Cat 3.4 Official - or even better 3.8 Official.

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Tywald
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 11:49
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Velorien:

Why don´t you some new screenshots but this time also use a program like "FRAPS" to show the framerate and also tell the "Tesselation" level you have for that TRUFORM picture. Whitout those numbers, those screens only tells that TRUFORM looks nice on pictures. In the first picture could for example have a framerate of 110+ while the one whit TRUFORM only has 40+.

As for the 16x Anistropic filtering, i agree whit Raven that whit trilinear filtering activated, there´s hardly any difference in quality over 6x.

- Tywald
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DMXtra
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 13:21
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Well, I really didn't want to turn this into a video card war or anything.

I personally loved Nvidia and I don't hate them now, but its hard to trust them after what they are doing.

ATI on the other hand has tons of work to do on their drivers and their driver team really makes a mess of things some times. I hear things have become better these days, but the 9800 pro was my first ATI video card ever and things are still buggy.

I have never hated ATI like a lot of fanboys do, I was an Nvidia fanboy, but I really didn't hate ATI, I just thought Nvidia had the best of everything, but after viewing countless people and proof, I have had my doubts.

Its my opinion that Nvidia has probably been spread out too thin as far as scientists and the technology for 3D is not a priority as much anymore and I guess thats what worries me.

If some of you peps like Nvidia, thats cool, I respect that and if you like ATI as well, hey I respect that too.

Just don't be a raven and make crap up out of thin air and claim it to be true just so that you can make some extra points against the "So called" enemy.

Life is simply too short to worry about stupid video card wars, people are dying and starving to death and you are worried about putting down xxxx company.

I am just happy that I have an awesome job that I love and that I can afford to buy a video card like this.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
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Velorien
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 17:03
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Tywald - I'll do that today. There was no visual preformance drop but i'll use fraps today and post the new pics
Tesselation was 4. You can go from 1 (thats to turn off truform) to 10 (max, that really slows down everything).

DMXtra - I agree with you. I had a Geforce 2 Ultra and was crazy about Geforce 3 before but i never had anything against ATI. The fact was that ATI was slower and i accepted it. But now the situation has changed and that's cool. I would buy ATI because of the extra features and a cheaper price tag, but i wouldn't mind having Geforce FX 5900 Ultra neither. Both are great cards but i can't stand that someone like Raven keeps saying crap like that.

Raven - Well well, isn't it odd how when ati makes a driver that speeds up the card a little is considered cheating but when Nvidia does it it's just "great programmers and engineers". The thing you keep saying about drivers overclocking the card is true, but only for XT series because they have a thermal diode on the chip. The thing you're saying is just hipocrisy because Nvidia implemented it first with their FX series (you know, downclock it in windows, speed it up in games)

And last, but not least AF 16X and truform may not be that big of a deal but it affects your decision when you're considering between the cards that have pretty much the same preformance level
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Velorien
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 22:30
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Here, i posted a new screenshots. I'm sorry but i couldn't make FRAPS run with A6 it keeps crashing me to windows. I used the debug mode instead.

http://dimenzije.topcities.com/ativsnvidia.htm
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