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I was tinkering around with building a scene in various modeling apps and importing the entire scene as an entity into FPSC. My results and what I've done:

Initial Tinkering: Couldn't move on the map - Changed the scene to dynamic in FPSC - able to move- bot's couldn't - collison for the objects was terrible

Recent Tinkering:Built a scene without a floor. Painted a floor in FPSC then placed the entity on top of it. Bots could move, I could move. But, we both got stuck in walls and some objects.

Now: Is this just not possible to do? Why doesn't the object collison work? Is there a certain collision setting I can assign to the entity to fix this? I could have swore I seen a video or read somewhere that someone was successfully importing scenes into FPSC.

It's a shame I can't figure this out. The performance and quality is a gazillion times better.

Yes you can, I have been doing it for awhile.Send me a mesh and then I can have a look at it...From there I can point you in the right direction...

would be much better if you could point everyone in the right direction wizard by using D3D's entity as an example?

Actually, I created a segment creation thread that deals with this.It has been mentioned before that never ever use this type of stuff as entities.

The collision is horrid compared to using segments which is way, way better...

So a point in the right direction....Largely ignored thread but ah well...


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=167375&b=21

collisionmode = 1

Static = Yes
Is Immobile = Yes

Below is what I use in an entities .fpe script file which belongs to an 8 sided Cylinder shaped tunnel entity. 100 x 100 units x 2.5 units wall thickness. I join straight and corner entities together of course in editor placement. Not getting a problem with collision with either player or enemies myself. The script file is nothing special - just what you would expect I guess. The models are nothing special either though they are relatively complex shaped for FPSC but no collision probs. See attached screen shot.

I think its probably true to say you may have to play with other editor settings for the entity too and that it may well be the case as suggested that the modeller used to create the entity may have some bearing on collision behaviour depending on how it saves or exports the .x files description which can vary from programe to programe from what FPSC likes. There can be incompatibilities and a variety of issues which may affect entity behaviour inside FPSC. e.g. modeller and how the model is created and what it is composed of, export or save .x file description, scaling, position, rotation and perhaps more.

Script :

;header

desc = straight_cylinder_pipe

;ai
aiinit = appear1.fpi
aimain = default.fpi
aidestroy = disappear1.fpi

;spawn
spawnmax = 0
spawndelay = 0
spawnqty = 0

;orientation

model = straight_cylinder_pipe.x
offx = 0
offy = 0
offz = 0
rotx = 0
roty = 0
rotz = 0
scale = 100
defaultstatic = 1
defaultheight = 0
collisionmode = 1

;visualinfo

textured = texturebank\user\Real_World_Textures\wall4.dds
castshadow = 0


*****************************

The only issue with collision is a serious one that the latest and current version of FPSC 118 B10 is likely to crash your system in any case when it feels the need to if any dynamic entity collides with another but that has nothing to do with custom entities specifically but is across the board.

@uman

Sigh, did you ignore my post? I just said do not use entities to build levels with.

Entities work fine for me as well. Only the occassional stick here and there on the floor with the player, but that's easily fixed with an invisible floor segment over the hard spot.

Kravenwolf

So both Kravenwolf and uman are of the believe that it is better use a single/multiple entities for an entire level?

A terrain perhaps, but a complete level as an entity.Why on earth would you want to use an entity as a complete level when you can do it with a segment just as easily and better.?

In fact using using a segment allows for perfect placement within the FPSC editor unlike entities and then you have to spend hours making sure the alignment is perfect or else you have gaps, let us not forget for more complicated entities the alignment is even harder.

Then of course you add invisible walls and floors for collision when a segment with in guide lines works perfectly fine with collision.With the entity it is suppose to be better because you use less polygons instead you defeat the purpose of using less polygons by adding more with "invisible walls and floors".Could you kindly point out where is the logic in that ?

Half of the levels that I have created would not be possible if it was not for segments.

If you both taken the time to actually look at the meshes I have created in the past you would have noticed that collision works just fine with some exceptions.Technically not exactly professional quality but is much better than what can be achieved with stock and standard room segments.

Lets not forget the optimized meshes I have started using which without bragging is far superior to the methods you try and use.
Using this method I use less polygons then other methods even allows me to use more detail.

So both of you want to recommend a method that is grossly inefficient?

Seeing as I am been ignored, it suite me ?

Never said it was better (or worse). Personally, I don't think there's any difference between the two when looking at the end result (when both are done correctly).




Preference.




Why would I have to spend hours on entity alignment? I build my entire level in the modeling program aligning the parts of the map as I create it, and then I export all of the meshes that form my level on the same origin center. Once I'm in the FPSC editor, everything snaps together and fits just as it did when the level was in Blender.




Well first, polygon conservation isn't the only reason that I prefer my method over the traditional approach. I'll get to that in a minute. Anyway, as I said in my original post; I only need to use invisible segments to patch up the occasional "hard spots" on the floors to address the player collision. It's like you said about your own technique;

-"collision works just fine with some exceptions"

Now to answer your question; adding 12 polygons here and there to patch up a few hard spots across my map doesn't at all defeat the benefit or *logic behind ridding my level of the 15,000-25,000 unseen polygons that come with excessive segment use. And not only does using entities in place of segments lower the polygon count in my level, it also saves me the hassle and time of breaking up every single entity/segment mesh as a seperate piece, and then having to put my level together 'block by block' in the editor.

I, personally, prefer doing the majority of my level construction in Blender. If you prefer using the FPS Creator editor to do yours, then that's great. But neither of us are in the wrong.




Works fine for me.




A complete matter of opinion and I don't see any reason to go any farther than that, because I would much rather prefer a healthly Xbox vs Playstation back and forth.


Kravenwolf

@Kravenwolf

Sigh which brings me to conclude you still have not viewed any of the meshes nor have you comparatively checked polygon difference.The meshes I have created doesn't matter how bad they are...they are stillvastly better optimized compared to using entities to build levels with, pending of course making use of inverted normals...or removing any polygons not visible to the player

Sigh, come back when you have an actual understanding of how I do things...then you might have a better understanding why I am saying and defending doing segments that way is far superior to entities.I wouldn't be having this discussion if I didn't know what I was doing.There is a reason why I am annoying you...

*insert smiley*

I attached a screenshot of a mesh I am using and most of the forum or who ever downloaded the segment pack it was in, with no complaints so far.

No I am not in any way dissing, trolling or looking for trouble.I really wish you had a better understanding. *insert smiley*

I hope this thread continues in this discussion.

I know everyone has their particulars when it comes to level design but I find the conversation extremely informative and helpful in deciding what route to take in constructing levels.

@Kravenwolf: Are you able to use double-sided planes in your static entity levels?

@wizard of id: Do you still have to adhere to the wall/floor thickness when using the segment editor?

In my opinion FPSC already uses a system which is simiar to modern game engines / editors like UDK and Radiant.

You build the basic geometry of a map with brushes (segments) then add static meshes (entities) to add detailed geometry.

There are features missing from the FPSC map editor that would improve level design such as texture scaling and the ability to scale entities in the editor.

Unfortunately trying to save a couple hundred polygons here and there is a bit painful. Modern game engines are rendering 150,000 triangles in a scene but we have to work with about 10% of that.

I have seen some of your previous segment work, and it is impressive, good sir. My reference to segments and polygon conservation was directed at the more traditional segments seen in FPS Creator today. You seem to be the only one whom I've seen on these boards that can acheive what you do with segments. And one of the few that I know who understands the segment editor so well.

Yes, your segments are nicely optimized and they sure do look nice once they're all put together in game, but 'vastly better optimized' over the entity alternative I disagree with. As I said in my last reply, there really is no difference to distinguish between our own two methods in the final build, when we both do everything correctly. Whether your 220 polygon segment corridor, or my 220 polygon entity corridor; once we both address our few collision 'exceptions' (as you said) with our own respective fixes, they're both going to look the same to the player.




Sure, we can split hairs all day long and argue that you saved 12 polygons there because you didn't need an invisible segment floor to patch up that hard spot, or I saved 48 polygons here because rather than fit together two or three segments to form a long section of corridor, my entity wall stretches just one segment's 32 faces down the length of the corridor (32x3=96). But in the end both of our levels' poly counts are going to fall so close to each others that neither of us should be carrying any bragging rights over polygon optimization with a serious face.

Remember, this is FPS Creator. And while counting every single polygon when constructing your universe doesn't hurt, there are more important methods of optimization to consider. Feed the engine a static universe with about 50,000 polygons, and we're sitting at around 60FPS. At 51,000 polygons, we're still holding at 60. But push the entity logic meter up just a tad, and we'll both watch the performance in our nicely optimized universes fall to 30.




Likewise. *smiley* My method is one habitually preferred, working with other engines in mind outside of the drag-and-drop persuasion. With FPS Creator, I end up saving myself hours and hours of development time and frustration by skipping the process of having to make twenty or thirty individual segment wall, floor and ceiling meshes FPS Creator ready with a program that I, admittingly, do not fancy working with.

I am working on a few commercial Model Packs this year, so I do have to use the segment method for some of my FPS Creator projects to keep things familiar to the customer base. When comparing both methods when assembling the showcase level for the model pack, I assure you; I do in fact save myself a substantial amount of time staying away from piece by piece assembly. So it really is best summed up by one word;






EDIT: @Tombsville, Yep.


EDIT #2: For anyone actually following this discussion, and waiting for me to 'put up or shut up'; Beyond Life 2 will be coming shortly.


Kravenwolf

I was simply making a comment on the original posters question as to my personal experience regarding entity world objects and collision. I am not an advocate or suggesting the building of a whole level as an entity though I have not tried it.

My comments are not directly meant to be taken as relating to the efficiencies of or in the case of FPSC in particular the lack of efficiencies in how it manages bsp rendering trees, polygon culling, polygon counts and collision which again in the case of FPSC in particular is a subject which is far too complicated for me and probably anyone else at these forums to fully understand or to comment upon, nothwithstanding there are other issues too which directly affect collision not least of all the said inefficiencies in ploygon handling resulting in low fps, gameplay slowdowns and resultant collision problems.

These issues have always existed inside FPSC and still do despite the higher fps currently found in non complex levels. These higher frame rates matter not with regard to collision as its the lows that matter and they still exist again even though the mean average perhaps has improved slightly in some individual users personal instances but by no means all or across the board across the range of various levels that users may attempt to construct.

Highly complex levels whether indoor or outdoor still by and large have unacceptable fps and gameplay speeds brought about by the same issues that have always existed. Physics, high polygon counts, general polygon management and AI entity polygon management, and inefficiencies in the calls to the time allocated to AI management all contribute to collison issues. Of corse various unstable versions of FPSC that are released having bugs and issues do not help users to always easily analyse what exactly is going on at any one time but the general trend is always there to be seen as it always has been. This is perhaps not helped by the large number of other calls to the engine from the many additional features which have been added to the engine all of which though nice to have do nothing to aleviate the burden on the engine at game run time and certainly nothing to add to gameplay to compensate for the burden which cant be replaced by new features no matter how valid they might be in an engine which has never been efficient in management of some basic core items.

Personally I find the engine inefficient and collision problems can occur for both player and other character entities no matter whether segments or entities are used. To gain back some ground one would have to spend massive amounts of time optimnising (more optimising than creating) wherever possible to achieve even a semblence of efficiency in a very highly detailed and complex level in FPSC and the engine may well still prove to be the better over the user.

No matter what world objects are composed of - fill an FPSC world to the brim and it is likely that you will get at least some collision problems unless you are lucky or cleverer than I which is probably the case.

Of course if you have no AI Characters in a complex level its a different matter. As soon as you add any number of AI Characters the fps will drop off and the more likely you are to have collision problems.

Anyway each to their own. You have to live with what you have and find your own best way to work around problems best you can to suit your own developments.

One of my usually long now rare postings. I will leave you all to get on with it.

@Kravenwolf

Spot on.That is the reply that I was looking for.Thanks for taking the time to write that.

Does culling work at all with static entities..?

*edit screenshot when culling fails