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FPSC Classic Product Chat / City Level Design Tips?

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NinjaKiller
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Joined: 12th Aug 2010
Location: Nearby
Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 18:10
Hey this is Ninjakiller and I am currently in
production of a game that's main setting is a city.
This hasn't been done much in FPSC and I'm starting to figure out
why.
It ALWAYS looks totally artificial. I've been practicing for
awhile on it and have improved immensely but I still
feel like an abandoned city is near impossible in FPSC.
I will post an example map and hopefully one of
the level design wizards will have some sort of idea
of how I could make my designs better.

Thanks!

Ninjakiller



Call me Ninja
NinjaKiller
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 18:27
Here is the first screenshot of a city map I just made
as an example. Please note that a final game would be more
high quality but still the basic design and atmosphere.
It would be much more populated. (Another thing I can't
seem to do.)
But the architecture would be similiar.



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DarkJames
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 19:13 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2011 19:16
depending on what city concept are you going for...


'Town?Village?Big Metropolis?NYC(Style)?Brooklyn(style)?

Btw: Add me on MSN, might be able to help ya

NinjaKiller
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 19:25 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2011 19:29
Im going for a big metropolis type city feel. It would be somewhat
grungy in certain parts of the game being bombed by terrorists
who have taken control.
Im sorry I don't have an MSN.

Edit: I'm gonna create one because it seems quite useful.



Call me Ninja
That Guy John
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 19:39
Ninja,
That is actually a great start!
To give it a better feel start adding detail to your textures and tweaking with shaders.
Like I said, excellent start, I think it is your models that need a little more work and some fancy light placement.

Take your ambience to 0 and place a sun into the map along with some other smaller lights. This should give you an idea of where to go with your textures and shaders.

Good Job Ninja
NinjaKiller
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 19:41
Thanks Dark James and That Guy John!
Anything else I should know when designing a city anyone?



Call me Ninja
That Guy John
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 19:53
Here is a quick Tut on placing sunlight into your map.
It is an older video way before light rays were added (which I haven't even touched yet) , But it is a good clear Tut for sunlight either way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8E989DJntM

not my vid
Kravenwolf
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 20:00 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2011 20:02
Your ambience should not be set to 0. Shadows cast in well-lit settings are not completely black.

Use entities rather than segments for buildings unaccessable to the player to rid your level out any unseen polygons.

You can create a few unaccessable/blocked off areas on the outskirts of your map still visible to the player to make it seem as though the city goes on behind the areas the player cannot get to.

Use planes with a simple building face texture on them in the background of your city to create the illusion of a more cluttered city environment, without adding many extra polygons.

Using low-poly "trash" to clutter your streets is a great way to break up the repetitveness without adding a lot of unneeded polygons. The newspapers in my signature, for example; use between 2-8 polygons a piece. Scatter 100 of them around the street, and it will add less than 1,000 polys to your level.

To save polygons, use large static geometry such as delivery trucks, buses, dumpsters, etc to clutter up empty city spaces rather than dozens of small entities.

Use streetlights, stop signs, post boxes, telephone posts and wires, but use them sparingly and spaced well enough apart to conserve polys.



Kravenwolf

NinjaKiller
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 20:18
Wow thanks Kravenwolf!

I'll upload a pic with all the tips later and
see if I improved.



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NinjaKiller
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 23:55
Okay, here is my improved city area.

I made it a dark, sunset-like color
to make it look washed out and empty.
I also added some trash and papers on the ground but they're
not visible in the pic.

Anything else I should do to improve?



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DarkJames
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2011 00:05
'Planes that Kravenwolf told you?

The Zoq2
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2011 10:17
It looks WAAY to dark imo

Srry about my english im from sweeden
Ikey
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2011 12:45
Set the ambience to about 10 lighter imo. The lighting is very contrasting. However, I DO love the colour of the lighting you've chosen. If you're any good with positioning, there is another way to add a sun.

Setup.ini

Quote: "[GAMEMAKE]
lightmapsunx=0
lightmapsuny=-1
lightmapsunz=0
lightmapsunr=0
lightmapsung=0
lightmapsunb=0"

Although, I've never actually got around to using this yet. If this isn't what it does, please do tell. >.>

Anyway, what I do when I decide to design a town or city level is just go outside. Take a few pictures and design it around that. If you don't live in the kind of place you want to design, Google Images is a VERY powerul tool. Pay close attention to detail, but remember that it doesn't have to look exactly the same. When I design a level, I first go out to the closest place I know that looks vaguely like my level, and sketch it out, with small edits to fit my needs.


The Zoq2
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2011 13:31
If it's going to be a night level, add street light, they realy make the scene look better...

Srry about my english im from sweeden
ASTECH
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2011 18:58
Quote: "Im going for a big metropolis type city feel"


Well another reason this has been halted in the past is memory consumption and poor frame rates.
Nickydude made a city in "He Is Coming". If your computer can run it, maybe you can get some ideas. He
seamed to do pretty decent with that city. It was nighttime during his game but that shouldn't affect much.

AMD Phenom II X6 3.2Ghz, 8GB DDR3 Extreme RAM,
ASUS M4N98TD EVO Motherboard, Nvidia 560 Ti 1GB DDR5
NinjaKiller
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2011 23:26 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2011 23:28
Wow thanks for the help guys! I changed the ambience to higher, but it
appears much lighter in the editor than on the screen btw. It was at 5
cuz 10 seemed too bright for a night level. I'll try a street
light or two.

Edit: I have absolutely no skill in positioning with x
and y so I think I am better off using the in-editor
strategy.

-Ninjakiller



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xplosys
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 4th Apr 2011 19:46
I did a city level a while back but had severe FPS issues. I was told it was due to large entities... entities higher than 2 or 3 levels like buildings. I don't know if that's been fixed or not.

The thing about cities like the one in your screen shot is the space it takes to do properly. Building of that size would likely be on wider streets and have sidewalks beside them. A single 4 way intersection with buildings could take half the map or more.

Brian.

... and the band played on.
Ikey
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Posted: 5th Apr 2011 00:20
@Ninja. If you're making it a night scene, then that ambience is pretty good. However, you should DEFINATELY add in streetlamps. Roads are generally littered with them in any city nowadays as the light seems to make things safer. (Stupid idea in my opinions, but yeah.) Remember, not all of the street lights have to be working, some can be dimmer, etc. When you're designing the city, just think about how your town/village/city looks. Remember, you can't aim TOO large in ANY engine. If you're looking to use FPSC, you may have to adjust your idea for using it. I am sure that soon enough the engine will be able to manage this, but if you're aiming for anything with real size, you'll probably have to split it into several maps, making the game end have as smooth a transition as possible. Maybe you could have something like a city on different islands, and have a 'boat ride' to the next section - loading. This is especially good in Project Blue, as you can specify the level to hop to. (Unless this has been added to Vanilla too? I find it hard to keep track.)

@Xplosys, I've used MASSIVE buildings recently, and it doesn't really seem to mind the height for me.


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